Morality, ethics, steals and deals of collecting

[Diatribal Deity]

So...last Sunday I got the heads up from a friend that the Microsoft Store was offering the Modern Warfare 2 Bundle with Dragon Age Origins, Assassins Creed 2 and 3 months of LIve for 399.99 (+tax, free shipping). Earlier in the weekend you had to call, but that day I jumped online to check things out.

Now I have an older 360 already but I could always use another especially with the big HD and Jasper and the games were very attractive as well. So I start adding items to my cart:

(1) MW 2 Bundle 399.99
(2) DAO 0.00
(1) AC2 0.00
(1) 3 month Live 0.00

Total: 399.99 + tax

Oops..added an extra DAO there...but wait, it still says 0.00. Interesting, let me try something:

(1) MW 2 Bundle 399.99
(5) DAO 0.00
(5) AC2 0.00
(5) 3 month Live 0.00

Total: 399.99 + tax

So as I sat there pondering and amazed at the glitch, I began recollecting times where I actually was hit with a moral dilemma while either purchasing, trading, and collecting games.

The last time I was in a somewhat different yet related quandary is when I received a few Neo Geo games I bought off Ebay for a great price, but the seller left a few memory cards in the cases. The seller did not have the greatest feedback and took a few reminders to eventually actually ship the stuff (thus also the great price I got) but now I felt guilty. Nevermind the value of these things, but how 'bout the fact he/she could have some important saves on there.

Now, I'm not going to tell you the actual final actions I took in these situations (as differnet people may judge it in different ways) and I would not expect you to do the same. But I am interested in situations you have been put in whether it be morally or ethically while purchasing games or collecting.

This right now, as I continue to do my Xmas shopping online and notice that the current normal 8% cash back using Bing for Ebay magically transforms to 15% if you do a search for Nintendo WII...hmmm...maybe Karma is coming back at Microsoft with a vengeance as a result of that RROD.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think there's a difference between getting a deal and screwing somebody over.

Somebody selling a Turbo Duo at a flea market for $8? That's a good deal. I don't think the buyer has any moral obligation to say anything. If he does anyway then that's just going above the standard making him a better man that I am. Now saying something after the purchase? "Yo, this Turbo Duo you sold me for $8? Ha, it's worth triple digits." That's just being a dick. Say thank you and leave.

Now if you bought the Turbo Duo for $8 and there's a CD in there the seller didn't know about? Or the seller made a computation error and gave too much change? I think there's a moral imperative to at least make a reasonable effort to bring up the issue. In some cases this might be impossible. You buy the thing in Florida at a random yard sale while on vacation and don't realize something is wrong until you get home to California. But in most cases I think honest mistakes of that sort are relatively easy to spot and easy to fix.

The reason I see it this way is because I'm a big balance junkie. If the reverse happened, where the seller made a mistake and sold the unit as less than he intended the buyer would rightfully expect the seller to do something about it. If the Turbo Duo were sold as working for a normal price but it turned out to be broken the buyer would expect either refund of all or some of the money or for the seller to fix the item. If the buyer is forced to eat a bad deal it's often done begrudgingly so.

Where is the balance if the buyer says "if something goes wrong for the seller and right for me then I win" and simultaneously "if something goes right for the seller and wrong for me then I refuse to lose"?

[Gameguy]

Somebody selling a Turbo Duo at a flea market for $8? That's a good deal. I don't think the buyer has any moral obligation to say anything. If he does anyway then that's just going above the standard making him a better man that I am. Now saying something after the purchase? "Yo, this Turbo Duo you sold me for $8? Ha, it's worth triple digits." That's just being a dick. Say thank you and leave.

What about haggling it down to $5? To me that would be a jerk move too, though plenty of people seem to haggle down anything they can.

Now if you bought the Turbo Duo for $8 and there's a CD in there the seller didn't know about?

I might mention it to the seller if there's plenty of the same type of games being sold separately, but if they just had the system with the one game inside I might not. It could be that the seller didn't bother to check because they never bothered to test the system. I actually sold an untested Model 1 Sega CD and later the buyer told me there was a game inside, I wasn't mad at him because I didn't check the system out and it was my fault, not his. Plus it wasn't a copy of Snatcher or something like that so I didn't mind.

Edit: I should mention that I sold the Sega CD as untested, I made sure the buyer knew this before buying it. I didn't have the hookups and couldn't test it at the time, and I just wanted it gone.

[ScourDX]

The way I look at it if the user selling at that price, then I don't have to tell them how much it is actually worth. At time I purchased DC games from a kid, he was selling them for $5 a piece. So I manage to picked up Powerstone 2 and few other rarity for that price. Later on he regrets selling it for that cheap and wants more money. So do I say yes you can have more money or should I ignore him? I ignore him because it was his mistake selling his stuff for $5/game.

At one time I use the price mistake from a Circuit City website. They listed Assassins Creed Limited edition for $19.99, but in fact it was the regular edition for that price. So I went to Bestbuy ask for price match. They give it to me for $16.99. So I got the Limited edition for cheap. Is it unethical? You can argue both ways.

[Fuyukaze]

Ethics in gaming. What a novel concept. When it comes to gaming, I often find most throw such things as morality and ethics to the wind. I myself am no different as I'd never pass up a chance to get something for as little as possible. Brag about getting something for cheap? Sure, I'd do that. To my friends or on a message board. I fail to see where it lacks in tact either. To the seller's face? No, that's insulting and hatefull. It's one thing to jump on a deal, it's another to insult a seller. Take something I didnt pay for by intent? If it's trash, it's fair game. If it's not, then it is stealing. If it came with what I bought, I dont see a problem. Point is, the burden of getting what they want isnt upon the buyer but on the seller. If the seller cant be bothered to check the content of what they are selling, I dont feel guilty if I get something extra. If they have so much to sell that they cant take the time to check, I cant force them to be more responsible. It's not nice, I dont liike it, but I'm not going to force people to care about something that should be more important to them then to myself.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think it's the times that we know we can get away with something that we must remain the most ethical. Specifically because those are the times it's easiest to toss values aside.

Take situations where there's no actual "theft" going on but you are still getting something for nothing and essentially screwing over the next guy, whoever that may be. For example, walking into a GameStop, going through all the used DS and Wii games, and copying down the registration codes to earn points on Nintendo's website?

On one hand, GameStop does not guarantee those codes will work so technically the next buyer should not expect that they will. As far as GameStop is concerned, the registration codes in used games are junk. If people buy used games and the codes works, they got lucky. If not, they got what they paid for.

On the other hand, you still got something for nothing. And the actual buyer, who would have gotten lucky, lost out on that little perk.

Is this unethical?

What about haggling it down to $5? To me that would be a jerk move too, though plenty of people seem to haggle down anything they can.

I'm inclined to say no. I think even in a good buying situation it's ok to negotiate since you aren't forcing the other party to accept the deal. I don't think trying to turn a good deal into a great deal is a bad thing. I think ethical problems start when there's some sort of absconding with something the seller did not intend you to abscond with and the mistake is obvious. You buy something for $15 and pay with a $20. The seller accidentally gives you a ten instead of a five. You realize the mistake but keep quiet and leave. Yes, the seller should have been paying attention. But at this point I'd say the ethical thing to do is speak up about it.

The reason is, again, balance. If you left and only later realized the seller gave you a single instead of a five you'd want the remaining four dollars. If you expect the seller to eat his loss you should be willing to eat your loss when things don't go your way. But nobody ever does that kind of math. Nobody who gets screwed on Ebay says "well, this time I ended up paying full price for a broken Turbo Duo but last time I bought a Sega CD and the seller accidentally left a copy of Snatcher inside. So I guess I won't file a complaint here because the previous "win" makes up for today's loss."

[Cornelius]

Ah, the 'bonus' game. I love those. My best was an NES I bought with 30 games or so. It was a great deal to begin with, but when I got home I found it had Dragon Warrior II in it. Yay! This one is pretty clear, though, as even if I pointed it out, they were just selling all of it and it wouldn't have mattered. I've gotten bonuses in PS1s and 2s, too.

On the other hand, I bought a PS2 once that was in a little plastic bin. After paying I was looking it over some more and underneath was NES Sesame Street 123/ABC, an uncommon game that I'd actually had an eye out for. Well, had it been a PS2 game I wouldn't have said anything, but since it didn't 'belong', I did mention it. Frankly, I figured they'd just give it to me or want a few bucks for it, but I felt it would have been wrong to just keep it. Well, the woman was like 'OMG, that's a super rare game that's worth like 30 or 40 bucks!' Well, no, no it isn't really worth anything. Hard to find, sure, but worthless. So I just walked away after handing it to her.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Any trade, be it in money and/or goods, that is done voluntarily by both parties is completely, totally and absolutely ethical and moral. Any other means of exchange is the direct opposite. End of story. I can say that so convicted because there is no way that you can twist "Gaming Stuff Acquisition" into "Stealing Bread for Survival".

Even in the case of your bonus item glitch find... If you put it in your cart, let their site give you the price, checkout and then they still ship it to you, without the order flagging for the obvious "WTF!?" reasons... You're clear.

I thought I found an insane deal similar to that recently. They were 'giving away' some items through an online shop and they had no apparent limit, so I went mad with the quantity edits. I was stopped at checkout though because each item carried a $25 shipping and handling charge... Yup, sometimes 'free' is just a trap.

[ScourDX]

Take situations where there's no actual "theft" going on but you are still getting something for nothing and essentially screwing over the next guy, whoever that may be. For example, walking into a GameStop, going through all the used DS and Wii games, and copying down the registration codes to earn points on Nintendo's website?

On one hand, GameStop does not guarantee those codes will work so technically the next buyer should not expect that they will. As far as GameStop is concerned, the registration codes in used games are junk. If people buy used games and the codes works, they got lucky. If not, they got what they paid for.

On the other hand, you still got something for nothing. And the actual buyer, who would have gotten lucky, lost out on that little perk.

Is this unethical?

Something can be said about used Xbox360 games with their exclusive DLC code. What really piss me off is when someone steal the code for the new game. I've purchased new copy only to find the code was used by someone else. Mind you Gamestop/EB Games isn't the best when it comes to selling gutted copy as new.

[Gameguy]

I'm inclined to say no. I think even in a good buying situation it's ok to negotiate since you aren't forcing the other party to accept the deal. I don't think trying to turn a good deal into a great deal is a bad thing. I think ethical problems start when there's some sort of absconding with something the seller did not intend you to abscond with and the mistake is obvious. You buy something for $15 and pay with a $20. The seller accidentally gives you a ten instead of a five. You realize the mistake but keep quiet and leave. Yes, the seller should have been paying attention. But at this point I'd say the ethical thing to do is speak up about it.

The reason is, again, balance. If you left and only later realized the seller gave you a single instead of a five you'd want the remaining four dollars. If you expect the seller to eat his loss you should be willing to eat your loss when things don't go your way. But nobody ever does that kind of math. Nobody who gets screwed on Ebay says "well, this time I ended up paying full price for a broken Turbo Duo but last time I bought a Sega CD and the seller accidentally left a copy of Snatcher inside. So I guess I won't file a complaint here because the previous "win" makes up for today's loss."

I agree with the correct change situations, I wouldn't just keep extra money. That actually happened to me in some thrift stores where the cashier was giving me too much back, I told her it was too much. I know at the end of the day the cash register would be checked and if it's short, she'd get in trouble.

I do feel bad about one situation, I was selling a game on Kijiji for $40 and a kid with his dad showed up to meet with me. The kid paid for it with his own money, he handed me a ziploc bag full of mostly pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters. There were a few small bills inside too(no more than $20 worth, if that much), I trusted him so I didn't count it then as it would have taken a long time. I just kept the bag of cash aside at home, but eventually I got around to checking it and there was $41 there. I would have given the $1 back if I had counted it then, I remember them saying they traveled pretty far to meet with me(like over an hour each way by highway) so I don't think they would have met with me again to get $1 back. Gas would have cost more than that. This was a few years ago, I don't even know if I still had their email address when I got around to counting it.

I personally wouldn't haggle on an already great deal unless I didn't have enough money with me to pay that much, I don't try to haggle that much. There have been a few times when I actually offered to pay more than the asking price, and not just because there were other people already interested in it. Some things were just way too low for me to feel comfortable with buying it, even with what I offered to them they were still great deals in my opinion. And I'm not someone that feels it's only right to pay the going rate, I like buying stuff priced well below that.

[portnoyd]

[wfnjstallion]

What about ethics when you go retro video game shopping with a friend? Awhile back I did just that and it just so happens both of us were looking for TMNT IV Turtles In Time (among many other games) and I spotted it first & other than reaching over the counter & grabbing the clerk before my friend spotted it snagged the game 1st. My feeling is first come first serve and from what I can tell he agreed.

On an unrelated note portnoyd I love the over the door shoe hanger as a way of storing VG controllers, BRILLIANT!!!

[joshnickerson]

What about ethics when you go retro video game shopping with a friend?

Me and my friend usually hunt for different systems, but if we find a game we both want, we handle it as mature adults would.

We Roshambo for it.

A couple of months ago, I was at the dirt mall and some lady was selling games and DVDs. The games were four bux each and the DVDs were a dollar. I picked out a couple of Gamecube games I needed for the collection and handed her a ten. She was busy with a couple of other customers, so she took the ten and handed me back eight bucks. For a brief second, I ALMOST walked away, but thought better of it. "Uh, I got two GAMES ma'am," handing her back a five and a single. "OH! I thought they were movies!" she said, taking the bills, "Thank you for being honest." Could I have just walked away? Absolutely. But I wouldn't have felt proud of myself.

[jferio]

I had one of those at the Entertainmart in Colorado Springs... I saw Final Fantasy VII for the PS1 there on the shelf... for $4. Complete. They had other copies, with higher pricing on them, that enabled me to verify that it was a sweetly good deal at that price. So I bought it.

I still haven't attempted to play through it, though.

[awbacon]

once...not on this forum, a seller had a game for sale at like 1/3 the going rate....something rare (who knows if anyone saw this)...it wasnt a 'oh shit...bills are due' sale, and I didn't want it.

So I sent the guy a pm saying "yo, I dont know if you meant to sell it at that, but check this price list"...he was super appreciative

I just did it cause if I made that mistake, i'd like it if someone gave me the heads up as well

[Zthun]

Here's my take on this, and at the risk of losing all respect of everyone on these forums (which I probably don't have anyway), I will be completely honest.

In these situations, I don't believe in karma. I am a complete and utter ass hole; if the deal is in my favor, I am out for myself (as long as I won't get jail time for it, which in this case I might POSSIBLY think twice about ordering too much). OP, I congratulate you on being a good human being or I congratulate you on getting a great deal (whatever you choose); if it was me, I would have made off with the goods. I'd love to tell everyone here that I'm a saint and an angel, but I'm not. Have a nice day!

[Icarus Moonsight]

Lose respect for that? Certainly not from me. The thing about people selling things for far under usual going rates is, if they were even trying to gauge that "market price" and sorely missed it, they still get something of value from the exchange after they realize that they miscalculated. A somewhat painful and sore seller's remorse that will remind and nag them to do their homework in the future. When in doubt, it never hurts to ask around with more knowledgeable people either. Pain has a purpose, it's a life experience feedback mechanism. No matter how many times you tell a little kid not to touch the stove/oven or radiator, because it will burn and hurt, the reality of the lesson doesn't truly strike home, and become properly integrated into their knowledge base, until they actually burn themselves and discover it for themselves.

[nhm]

Here's my take on this, and at the risk of losing all respect of everyone on these forums (which I probably don't have anyway), I will be completely honest.

In these situations, I don't believe in karma. I am a complete and utter ass hole; if the deal is in my favor, I am out for myself (as long as I won't get jail time for it, which in this case I might POSSIBLY think twice about ordering too much). OP, I congratulate you on being a good human being or I congratulate you on getting a great deal (whatever you choose); if it was me, I would have made off with the goods. I'd love to tell everyone here that I'm a saint and an angel, but I'm not. Have a nice day!

Doesn't matter, you still pay for it. Stores just add the cost of losses into their prices. So, in a way, you are screwing over the people who do the right thing and pay for those games.

[Icarus Moonsight]

As opposed to a wrong thing? Please, connect the dots for me.

[nhm]

As opposed to a wrong thing? Please, connect the dots for me.

You were advocating that the OP take advantage of a website mistake and get as many games as possible. That would be the wrong thing. Those games will be written off as losses and the cost of those losses are passed on to the consumers who actually PAY to own those games. TANSTAAFL. If you don't know what that means, you should look it up.