Smithsonian And National Endowment For The Arts Ends Argument: Video Games ARE Art

[Icarus Moonsight]

Alright, so is a fusion active star an artist? It fuses lighter elements into heavier ones, creating new elements... For example: hydrogen is the medium, helium is the art produced. Fits the standard.

How do you differentiate between a sculpture and a bowel movement?

[The 1 2 P]

Everybody knows my stance but for the people who don't think video games are art, is there anything that would change your outlook on that? What I mean is, I'm sure you consider paintings, music, film and literature art so whats missing from video games to give them that same distinction in your eyes? Or is it something that in your opinion they will never aspire to? Just curious.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I stated my position earlier. In order for video games to be a primary art form, you have to eliminate the player interaction requirement and have no barriers of progress to completion. In other words, make a game that plays exactly like a movie. Hit a button to start and then watch until it's done. Sounds boring, silly, and nothing like a game. We already have films anyway. Conversely, to change any film into a game, you can rig up a DVD player to only play for 2 Minutes for every 50pt toss you get on a Skee-Ball machine... But no one is pushing for movies to be accepted as games...

The problem is that games can use elements of almost all of the primary art forms to some degree, or only one (take Zork for an example) and still be a good game experience. Artistic expression is only a part of what games have to offer.

[TonyTheTiger]

I just don't like arbitrary lines. I'm willing to entertain the idea that games are art. But it's conditioned on board games also being accepted as such because I honestly don't see much of a distinction between Mario Party and Monopoly or Starcraft and Risk. And then of course we go all reductio ad absurdum where "well if this is art then why not this? And if that is art then why not that other thing?" Eventually we end up declaring every man-made creation "art" which completely destroys the word's entire meaning.

So, yeah...it's not that I firmly don't think games are art. I just don't think it matters much and whenever we play the "definition of art" game we get nowhere.

And perhaps more importantly, I find the constant drum beating and call to arms over the issue kind of annoying and indicative of pervasive insecurity among the gaming public. Games are games. Movies are movies. Books are books. If they're art, cool. If not, so what? Does it make them any more or less entertaining or socially relevant?

[The 1 2 P]

In other words, make a game that plays exactly like a movie. Hit a button to start and then watch until it's done.

You just described the 3DO series of Vivid porn games. You don't play them, you just sit back and watch them....in horror If they were ever considered video game art it would be at the lowest end of the spectrum. They make bad games like Superman 64 look somewhat decent.

[sheath]

TonyTheTiger,

I'm not sure you are allowing for the usual amount of participation the viewer/listener plays in accepted forms of arts. Individual perceptions have to translate into something that equates to art. Why should tactile senses not be included?

[Rob2600]

In other words, make a game that plays exactly like a movie. Hit a button to start and then watch until it's done.

You mean like Metal Gear Solid 2?

I kid, I kid...

[TonyTheTiger]

TonyTheTiger,

I'm not sure you are allowing for the usual amount of participation the viewer/listener plays in accepted forms of arts. Individual perceptions have to translate into something that equates to art. Why should tactile senses not be included?

Well, is the calculator program in Windows art? Is Minesweeper art? The issue isn't so much whether or not "games" are art but rather when does a computer program make that transition. I'm not even sure it's entirely easy to figure out what qualifies as a video game itself. I'd argue that the Odyssey is more a tool, a piece of hardware to be used within a game, than a game itself.

That's why I keep bringing up board games. Because I don't think there is much of a push for Monopoly or Connect Four to be accepted as works of art among the board game fanbase. What makes them any different? Or, to frame it in a loaded way, what makes them less "worthy" of the title than a video game?

Again, I don't have much vested in whether or not games are art. I'm willing to entertain the idea either way. It doesn't personally affect me or my enjoyment of the pastime. I don't feel insulted if they're not art nor do I feel like I'd be wearing a badge of honor if they are.

But I'm not an art guy to begin with. I don't know much about the significance. All I know is what I like. When something affects me personally, be it an enjoyable waste of time or a deeply involving adventure, then I can respond to that, regardless of the medium. But abstracts like "art" aren't "real" enough for me to calculate in the equation of whether or not something is "worth it."

I get the impression that the clamor for games to be accepted as art is due to people being worried that it's the only way for games to be deemed "worth it." But...considering how successful the medium is, I think they're plenty "worth it" regardless of their abstract status.

[eskobar]

Everybody knows my stance but for the people who don't think video games are art, is there anything that would change your outlook on that? What I mean is, I'm sure you consider paintings, music, film and literature art so whats missing from video games to give them that same distinction in your eyes? Or is it something that in your opinion they will never aspire to? Just curious.

For me, I could take a video game as a work of art if it was created only for that purpose, not to produce it in mass and sell it for $60 dollars. That a game has art elements doesn't necessarily make it a work of art.

If one team of artists gather together and create an interactive piece to give a message and show it in a museum or art gallery and they succeed on the creation, that would give me a real sense of art as they have no limitations from a publisher/esrb/management approval, etc.

[Leo_A]

I just hope it doesn't turn out the way I think it will. Mega-publishers are going the way the movie industry did in the 20s-40s. I am afraid that will result in only a handful of developers making all of the games with no way for independents to edge their way in.

And by 1950, we saw erosion of that studio system start with it's disappearance by 1970 with room yet again for independents.

So I suspect if this industry does see such consolidation, it's going to be a temporary one at best with deintegration to follow within a few years. But I highly doubt we're going to see game development follow such a path, there's been so signs I've seen of barriers to entry going up in this industry. If anything, the growth in things like games for mobile platforms is making it even easier to enter this industry today.

[The 1 2 P]

Now Nintendo is bringing art to students in schools in the form of art applications usable on Dsi XL systems in art classes. Not that this has to do with our general discussion but interesting none the less.

[TonyTheTiger]

If somebody uses a video game to make art then is it double art?

[Icarus Moonsight]

What sounds like a dog with a cleft palette? *Art! Art!*

[Chadt74]

BUMP and info:

If anyone wants to see the webcast, info (link and password) is below:

Thank you for voting to help us select some of the games that will be included in The Art of Video Games exhibition at the Smithsonian American Art Museum. You will be notified of the winning games before the public announcement and are invited to view a private webcast discussion of the winning games with exhibition curator Chris Melissinos and coordinator Georgina Goodlander.The webcast will take place LIVE at 1 p.m. (EDT) on May 5, 2011.


To watch, simply login to the webcast at www.artofvideogames.org or join the crowd on Ustream on the day of the announcement, using the password bosslevel. You will receive a reminder of this exclusive LIVE show shortly before it begins, along with the full list of winning games, so be sure to check your email!

A public announcement of the winning games will follow the live webcast

[chrisbid]

http://americanart.si.edu/exhibition...nninggames.pdf

here are the results

[The 1 2 P]

http://americanart.si.edu/exhibition...nninggames.pdf

here are the results

I got that email earlier and I can't say I'm surprised at all. I mean, pretty much every catergory that a Mario or Zelda game was nominated for they won. But again, we all saw that one coming and the rest of the results are just as typical.

[pseudonym]

Not much of a surprise. The most obvious games won most of the categories.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Is it art yet? Shhh... Need more votes.

[Rob2600]

If William Hung's "music" is art, then Total Recall for the NES is the Mona Lisa.

[The 1 2 P]

Now it's really official: Video games ARE art. Time for a title change, as the the argument is officially over