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Thread: I have to post this, It's funny as hell(debate about DLC)

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    Default I have to post this, It's funny as hell(debate about DLC)

    This guy is so ignorant, and thinks that there is only one side to it, It's not funny(since when is "anything" only one sided, with only one possible reason for doing something).

    I myself listed 3-4 legit reasons to have DLC, and a bunch of other people posted the reason I forgot, along with repeating basically what has already been said, but nomatter what anybody says, he just ignores it. He just repeats all DLC is greed, there is no reason for it, I(as in he)would rather have a complete game on the disc(lol, even though that is impossible in most situations to do).

    Here's the Link: http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5536

    Have fun trying to talk reason with him.

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    I skimmed it briefly, and although I won't go so far as refuse to buy a game with DLC, I do agree with the OP that to me, DLC is just a way to exploit more money from a customer by selling them an incomplete game to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRM View Post
    I skimmed it briefly, and although I won't go so far as refuse to buy a game with DLC, I do agree with the OP that to me, DLC is just a way to exploit more money from a customer by selling them an incomplete game to begin with.
    Not all companies are like Square, Sony or Microsoft, there are a bunch of legitimate reasons to have DLC, and the main one is, almost no game was ever complete to begin with, just most people didn't know that a bunch of stuff needed to be abandoned(for anywhere up to a dozen reasons).

    Then there's stuff that developers might've thought of after the game was released(they could make a stupid remake that will cost you 60$ or they can add it as DLC for 10-20$ total, now what is cheaper).

    Those are just the two most common/major uses, there's atleast 3 other pretty big legit reasons to have DLC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRM View Post
    I skimmed it briefly, and although I won't go so far as refuse to buy a game with DLC, I do agree with the OP that to me, DLC is just a way to exploit more money from a customer by selling them an incomplete game to begin with.
    I agree. Up until a few years ago, there was no such thing as DLC, so I don't buy the argument that it isn't possible to put the entire game on the disc. From Capcom charging for a multi-player mode and costumes that should have been included to the publisher of Raiden IV charging for a couple of extra ships that also should have been included, and dozens of publishers charging to unlock content already on the disc, it is a pure money grab. Moreover, from a collector's point of view, it makes it almost impossible to collect the entire game since the DLC is not always available in disc form and of course, can't then be resold. The only DLC I support is content that doesn't really expand the game, but is really something more, but maybe not quite a full game in and of itself. An example would be the GTA IV DLC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoltor View Post
    Not all companies are like Square, Sony or Microsoft, there are a bunch of legitimate reasons to have DLC, and the main one is, almost no game was ever complete to begin with, just most people didn't know that a bunch of stuff needed to be abandoned(for anywhere up to a dozen reasons).

    Then there's stuff that developers might've thought of after the game was released(they could make a stupid remake that will cost you 60$ or they can add it as DLC for 10-20$ total, now what is cheaper).

    Those are just the two most common/major uses, there's atleast 3 other pretty big legit reasons to have DLC.
    Then you don't ship the damn thing or you make the DLC free to everyone and offer regular update discs to people without access to the web. The fact that companies are shipping unfinished product and still charging $60 is incredibly ridiculous. Remember, this is already $10 more than we were paying for games in the last generation and game sales in general have been up with the exception of the last six months as a result of the recession. The fact that a lot of DLC is coming out just weeks or a couple of months after the game releases is especially offensive since it is a clear sign of a company just trying to milk more money out of us.

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    Until a company can make a perfect game, the last thing they need to be doing is spending time on DLC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porksta View Post
    Until a company can make a perfect game, the last thing they need to be doing is spending time on DLC.
    Huh? I don't get it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaar View Post
    Huh? I don't get it.

    If the game is not perfect, obviously their time should be spent making it better, and not making DLC. It is like in school when doing Powerpoints. Don't put in all the bells and whistles until the information on the slides is perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Then you don't ship the damn thing or you make the DLC free to everyone and offer regular update discs to people without access to the web. The fact that companies are shipping unfinished product and still charging $60 is incredibly ridiculous. Remember, this is already $10 more than we were paying for games in the last generation and game sales in general have been up with the exception of the last six months as a result of the recession. The fact that a lot of DLC is coming out just weeks or a couple of months after the game releases is especially offensive since it is a clear sign of a company just trying to milk more money out of us.
    That's the main sticking point for me. I understand that there are good reasons for pay based DLC (Grand Theft Auto expansions are a good example) but I really get upset when a game is released and then you have to pay for content that should of been in the game to begin with. Want the multi-player mode......extra cash. Want the best gun in the game.......extra cash. Want the player's alternate outfit......extra cash. I can understand a special edition weapon or outfit occasionally (no excuse for multi-player though) but it's getting a bit out of control with many games.

    The problem is that the companies are making money off of these scams so it will continue (I don't blame them either). The only way all the rip-off DLC will stop is if gamers stop buying it. That is FAR from happening though.
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    By the guy's criteria, it looks like Duke Nukem Forever is the only game suited for him.

    Some sites have arguments like this every day. I find this sad, sad in a sincere way. People think they're qualified journalists and that their opinions are irrefutable facts just because they have a computer with internet access. People who do no research, but act like their opinion is prophecy, are going to become miserable people.
    Last edited by BetaWolf47; 12-10-2009 at 05:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetaWolf47 View Post
    By the guy's criteria, it looks like Duke Nukem Forever is the only game suited for him.

    Some sites have arguments like this every day. I find this sad, sad in a sincere way. People think they're qualified journalists and that their opinions are irrefutable facts just because they have a computer with internet access. People who do no research, but act like their opinion is prophecy, are going to become miserable people.
    I'm curious as to what you are responding to. This isn't really the kind of argument that benefits from research, it's really all opinion based. You'll never be able to find any factual support for the contention that DLC is necessary as there are entire systems that have large libraries with no DLC (Nintendo DS, PS2 and Wii for example) and many developers which don't release any DLC for their games on the PS3, PSP and 360. You also won't find any factual support for the contention that DLC isn't necessary to sustain industry growth.

    I personally agree with the OP on the Atlus board and I am very concerned about just how willing people are to accept this DLC scheme as the new economics of buying games which as I noted earlier are already $10 more (well, sometimes even more than that if you buy the collector's edition which often come with little more than some extra DLC) than they were just a few years ago. The only thing about this whole thread that strikes me as funny and a little sad is how brainwashed the OP here is in thinking that everyone agrees with him that DLC is a good thing. I'm glad I'm not alone in my opposition.

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    This has been said many times before, but the problem with DLC is that it's not really DLC. It's shit that's already on the disc or something that was done in the initial release. That's a load of crap. It's like Obama's health reform stuff. It sounds nice on paper, but in execution, it bites everyone in the ass.

    If companies offered DLC as an expansion, that's one thing, but to have DLC for minor stuff like weapons, guns, and extra characters - that's just ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I'm curious as to what you are responding to. This isn't really the kind of argument that benefits from research, it's really all opinion based. You'll never be able to find any factual support for the contention that DLC is necessary as there are entire systems that have large libraries with no DLC (Nintendo DS, PS2 and Wii for example) and many developers which don't release any DLC for their games on the PS3, PSP and 360. You also won't find any factual support for the contention that DLC isn't necessary to sustain industry growth.

    I personally agree with the OP on the Atlus board and I am very concerned about just how willing people are to accept this DLC scheme as the new economics of buying games which as I noted earlier are already $10 more (well, sometimes even more than that if you buy the collector's edition which often come with little more than some extra DLC) than they were just a few years ago. The only thing about this whole thread that strikes me as funny and a little sad is how brainwashed the OP here is in thinking that everyone agrees with him that DLC is a good thing. I'm glad I'm not alone in my opposition.
    Actually you're wrong, It's not opinion based, when there are facts on why things are done(varies depending on company, and circumstances). that guy as well as anyone agreeing with him, is stating that "all" DLC is, is greed. That is 100% false, infact very few companies have showed any sign of greed as the reason they have DLC(there are big differances between a company being greedy, and a company having DLC for just reasons).
    Last edited by Zoltor; 12-10-2009 at 06:05 PM.

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    I liked DLC during the original Xbox(not the 360) days. For starters, most of it was free(except for Halo 2 multiplayer maps, but there might have been others). Also, it wasn't completely required for the campaign or multiplayer experience. Adding an extra free space station to Knights of the Old Republic or free maps for Doom 3 and Star Wars: Republic Commando was a far cry from the "pay for content already on the disc" model that many publishers use today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I'm curious as to what you are responding to. This isn't really the kind of argument that benefits from research, it's really all opinion based. You'll never be able to find any factual support for the contention that DLC is necessary as there are entire systems that have large libraries with no DLC (Nintendo DS, PS2 and Wii for example) and many developers which don't release any DLC for their games on the PS3, PSP and 360. You also won't find any factual support for the contention that DLC isn't necessary to sustain industry growth.
    Wii actually does have DLC though. While there's no factual support that it's needed, there's no factual support of what the OP in the linked thread was trying to press on everyone.

    By the way, Wii does have DLC, albeit more scarce than the other systems. It's just most prominent in the GH/Rockband games and WiiWare titles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoltor View Post
    Actually you're wrong, It's not opinion based, when there are facts on why things are done(varies depending on company, and circumstances). that guy as well as anyone agreeing with him, is stating that "all" DLC is, is greed. That is 100% false, infact very few companies have showed any sign of greed as the reason they have DLC(there are big differances between a company being greedy, and a company having DLC for just reasons).
    Prove it. Of course you can't because all you have to go on is what the companies are telling you and that's not factual, that's pure PR hype for their own purposes. The reason all for-profit companies do things is for profit. That's the basis for their existence and the second they stop pursuing that goal, they either collapse or they become something other than for-profit companies. To believe otherwise is pure niavete. DLC that's not done for greed is called a "patch" or an "update" and the companies don't charge for it. So, yes, all DLC is greed just like releasing a game is greed.

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    Greed, "Greed" is the backbone of capitalistic shareholding companies and they have a duty to maximize profits for shareholders!, its the nature of the beast in business, regardless of our stance, this is the way of companies upping the cost of games without it appearing so at retail and it will only continue more so into the Digital Distribution age. The only real way to fight back is to go without, while people buy DLC it will only become more of a staple.

    I have no problem with DLC in the right context, extra cars and the like that are genuine additions? sure Ill look at them, extra modes/addons that are already present on the disc but you want extra money from to to use them? no fucking way. DLC can be a way of adding more life to games you may have finished or would people prefer to take the capcom stance and pay full retail price for a rerelease of a game with some new features, ala 16bit day Street Fighter.

    /me looks at RE5 and EA games.
    Last edited by Emuaust; 12-10-2009 at 06:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emuaust View Post
    Greed, "Greed" is the backbone of capitalistic shareholding companies and they have a duty to maximize profits for shareholders!, its the nature of the beast in business, regardless of our stance, this is the way of companies upping the cost of games without it appearing so at retail and it will only continue more so into the Digital Distribution age. The only real way to fight back is to go without, while people buy DLC it will only become more of a staple.

    I have no problem with DLC in the right context, extra cars and the like that are genuine additions? sure Ill look at them, extra modes/addons that are already present on the disc but you want extra money from to to use them? no fucking way. DLC can be a way of adding more life to games you may have finished or would people prefer to take the capcom stance and pay full retail price for a rerelease of a game with some new features, ala 16bit day Street Fighter.

    /me looks at RE5 and EA games.
    Omg so right, I am so sick of seeing remekes(crappy remakes at that, since they almost always change stuff that should've been left alone), that just has a few extra things in it, yet they charge you full game price, well with DLC, It's unlikely we'll have to deal with that BS as often anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoltor View Post
    Omg so right, I am so sick of seeing remekes(crappy remakes at that, since they almost always change stuff that should've been left alone), that just has a few extra things in it, yet they charge you full game price, well with DLC, It's unlikely we'll have to deal with that BS as often anymore.
    You do realize that DLC is usually not free, right? Just because you don't have to go to the store to buy the updated version doesn't mean they aren't still making just as much money off of you for stuff which should have been included to begin with. Of course, Capcom wants the best of both markets, so we not only get Super Street Fighter IV in 2010, but plenty of DLC in the meantime which should have been included in the game to begin with.
    Last edited by Bojay1997; 12-10-2009 at 07:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I don't think Capcom shares your view. Super Street Fighter IV will be coming out in 2010 with some new fighters and arenas, but little else.
    Lol yea, sadly not.

    It's one thing if thet are different formats(aka different feel) like 3rd strike, Marvel Vs Capcom, and a regular street fighter, but It's getting out of hand now, It's crazy.

    Yes I know DLC is not free duh lol, but it beats the hell out of buying 1,001 remakes, doesn't it?

    Well I'm not one of those suckers that fall for buying remakes anyway, besides Marvel Vs Capcom, and 3rd Strike is really all you need to fill your fighter needs(maybe alittle Soul Caliber for a break from the other two).
    Last edited by Zoltor; 12-10-2009 at 07:34 PM.

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