Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 81

Thread: Do different Genesis Model 1 systems have better / worse video output?

  1. #1
    DP's favorite trollbait Custom rank graphic
    Kitsune Sniper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Calexico, USA
    Posts
    13,853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    FoxhackDN
    Steam
    Foxhack

    Default Do different Genesis Model 1 systems have better / worse video output?

    I recently purchased a second Genesis console (intended for part of a trade which will most likely not come to pass) and while testing it, I noticed something odd.

    The video quality was a lot better than my other Genesis' video quality. The video seemed a lot less blurry than my other system.

    The only difference was that this new Genesis appears to be a pre-lockout (TMSS) system with an EXT port, and my older one is a post-lockout system without a port. I'm playing with a standard A/V cable, not RF.

    So was I imagining things? Or is there really a video quality difference between the two?
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Dantes View Post
    I can't tell if we're discussing My Little Pony or Neon Genesis Evangelion anymore.
    eBay Auctions / GameTZ profile / DP Feedback / Youtube / Twitter / RateYourMusic

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Moderator
    Custom rank graphic
    Aussie2B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,277
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    35
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    133
    Thanked in
    111 Posts

    Default

    There is. I don't know if there are any useful topics on this board regarding the matter, but I found this very informative:

    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?p=161951

  3. #3
    Reticulating Splines BetaWolf47's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Posts
    2,810
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Oh dear fuck, you wouldn't believe how many different kinds of Genesis systems there really are. Most people think that there's only model 1, model 2, model 3, X'Eye, and CDX, but it gets far, far more complicated.

    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7796

    There's even some variants that people don't know about. Most likely, your new one is a model 1 VA7.

    On a side note, I have a model 1 VA7 and a model 2 VA3. Both are unknown variants - they have the Sony CXA1145 video encoder.

    <EDIT> Gah, beaten to the guide.
    Last edited by BetaWolf47; 01-18-2010 at 10:12 PM.
    Selling gaming accessories. Click

  4. #4
    DP's favorite trollbait Custom rank graphic
    Kitsune Sniper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Calexico, USA
    Posts
    13,853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    FoxhackDN
    Steam
    Foxhack

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BetaWolf47 View Post
    There's even some variants that people don't know about. Most likely, your new one is a model 1 VA7.
    Wait, my newer, BETTER one is the crappy one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Dantes View Post
    I can't tell if we're discussing My Little Pony or Neon Genesis Evangelion anymore.
    eBay Auctions / GameTZ profile / DP Feedback / Youtube / Twitter / RateYourMusic

  5. #5
    Reticulating Splines BetaWolf47's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Posts
    2,810
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    No, I jumped the gun. Your non-TMSS system is the better one. How's the audio on each of them? It's a weird case sometimes: some variants have good video and bad audio, and vice-versa.
    Selling gaming accessories. Click

  6. #6
    DP's favorite trollbait Custom rank graphic
    Kitsune Sniper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Calexico, USA
    Posts
    13,853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    FoxhackDN
    Steam
    Foxhack

    Default

    I honestly don't know.

    I hated the Genesis' audio when I was a kid, and it doesn't sound any better now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Dantes View Post
    I can't tell if we're discussing My Little Pony or Neon Genesis Evangelion anymore.
    eBay Auctions / GameTZ profile / DP Feedback / Youtube / Twitter / RateYourMusic

  7. #7
    Cherry (Level 1)
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    227
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    I see someone found my guide on Sega-16.

    Now, on a Genesis Model 1, the picture quality is the same, however, the non-TMSS models contain some really cheap capacitors that are starting to dry up. This has caused some sound problems on one of my non-TMSS Genesis Model 1s(both VA3s), and there's a possibility it also causes "rainbow banding," where thick vertical rainbow-colored strips appear on the screen. Both of my non-TMSS Genesis Model 1s and my Japanese MegaDrive Model 1(VA5 motherboard) show signs of rainbow banding. The VA7 Genesis Model 1 is the big turd, and up in my part of Canada(Montreal), it's the most common Genesis Model 1 there is. I either find that or a non-TMSS model. I haven't seen a VA6 Genesis Model 1 aside from my modified VA6 in a LONG time.

    But the Genesis Model 2 in general sucks. Most revisions sound like absolute crap(VA0, VA1, VA1.8), can't get the volume balance correct(VA2, VA4(to a lesser extent and easier to fix)), and have absolutely rotten Composite video. I tell you: out of about 50 different Genesis Model 2s I've come across, only 2 had good video AND audio quality. While the ones that sound like absolute crap can get better sound using a new sound circuit developed by Sega-16's Genesis modding guru TmEE, there is no way to fix the bad video unless you get a new video encoder, which, on the Genesis 2, is a small surface-mounted chip, and replacing those is a real hassle.

    Could you take a picture of your two Genesis systems(front, back, and if you have a Genesis 2, the bottom)?

  8. #8
    DP's favorite trollbait Custom rank graphic
    Kitsune Sniper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Calexico, USA
    Posts
    13,853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    FoxhackDN
    Steam
    Foxhack

    Default

    I don't have a Genesis 2 (I used to but I think I gave it away). And both my Genesis 1s have the EXT port on the back. How difficult is it to fix the capacitors on these? I didn't have any issues with rainbow banding on this system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Dantes View Post
    I can't tell if we're discussing My Little Pony or Neon Genesis Evangelion anymore.
    eBay Auctions / GameTZ profile / DP Feedback / Youtube / Twitter / RateYourMusic

  9. #9
    Cherry (Level 1)
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    227
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Electrolytic capacitors are fairly easy to replace. However, there isn't a list of all the various capacitors on the Genesis Model 1 anywhere, so I'll compile a list of capacitors you need. I won't be able to do so now, but when I can, I'll open up my Genesis Model 1s(take a picture of the motherboards in your Genesis Model 1s so I know which ones to open up; I've got a few different Genesis Model 1s here) and make a list of all the capacitors on the motherboard.

  10. #10
    Apple (Level 5) RASK1904's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,199
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Smile

    Very Informative thread. Thanx. I have a Model 1 HD without the TTM. Plays and sounds great. I will watch for the rainbowing now of course.

    I guess the one with it would be a little better becuase of the rainbowing. But I picked it up years ago without any of this knowledge. Could have done worse.
    In yo face!

  11. #11
    DP's favorite trollbait Custom rank graphic
    Kitsune Sniper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Calexico, USA
    Posts
    13,853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    FoxhackDN
    Steam
    Foxhack

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace View Post
    Electrolytic capacitors are fairly easy to replace. However, there isn't a list of all the various capacitors on the Genesis Model 1 anywhere, so I'll compile a list of capacitors you need. I won't be able to do so now, but when I can, I'll open up my Genesis Model 1s(take a picture of the motherboards in your Genesis Model 1s so I know which ones to open up; I've got a few different Genesis Model 1s here) and make a list of all the capacitors on the motherboard.
    Oh, don't bother on my account. I can't fix anything, I don't know how to solder.

    I'll see what I can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Dantes View Post
    I can't tell if we're discussing My Little Pony or Neon Genesis Evangelion anymore.
    eBay Auctions / GameTZ profile / DP Feedback / Youtube / Twitter / RateYourMusic

  12. #12
    Cherry (Level 1) DuckTalesNES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bridgewater, MA
    Posts
    323
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    DoggWhiskey

    Default

    So bottom line, what is the best version? If I was going to own a single sega genesis for playing games on, which should I own?
    Life is like a hurricane...

  13. #13
    Cherry (Level 1) PSony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    265
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    As long as you don't get a VA7 model 1, you're good to go. The VA7's sound as bad as most of the model 2's.

  14. #14
    Cherry (Level 1) DuckTalesNES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bridgewater, MA
    Posts
    323
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    DoggWhiskey

    Default

    So there's no difference between the ones with "high definition graphics" and those without as long as the ones without aren't a VA7 model?
    Life is like a hurricane...

  15. #15
    Kirby (Level 13) megasdkirby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Bayamon, Puerto Rico
    Posts
    5,264
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    14
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10
    Thanked in
    9 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    megasdkirby
    PSN
    megasdkirby

    Default

    Fantastic guide.

    I have a few Model 1 units, and I just verified that I have the TMSS one, but with motherboard VA6.

    I also have a Model 2, but since I rarely used it, I could not make a difference to a Model 1.

    Does anyone have sound bytes to compare them to?
    Proud owner of a Neo 25 Neo Geo Candy Cab!

  16. #16
    Key (Level 9) chrisbid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,819
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    so this leads to question 2

    if you have a higher quality stock genesis, do you lose the higher quality output by attaching a sega cd or 32x?

  17. #17
    Strawberry (Level 2)
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    428
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    i believe the 32x has the TMSS chip on it. So if you have a non-TMSS system, it basicly makes you have one, unless you unhook the 32x everytime you use it.
    YouTube: MasonSushi---- http://www.youtube.com/user/masonsushi
    NintendoAge: MasonSushi
    Licensed NES- Complete....32X Complete
    N64- Complete....Master System (CIB)- 8 left
    TG-16 Hu - Complete

  18. #18
    Cherry (Level 1) PSony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    265
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    The ones that have "High Definition Graphics" on the casing are guaranteed not to have a VA7 board (since only early models have HDG and VA7 is the latest model 1), so all HDG models have good sound. There are some that don't have HDG but still have good sound. I've heard the early models have a rainbow banding issue but I mainly care about the sound quality.

    HDG model = good sound
    non-HDG model, but still has the space where the EXT port used to be = also good sound
    non-HDG model, and the space where the EXT port used to be is occupied by CH3/CH4 switch = bad sound

    FCC ID: FJ846EUSASEGA = non-TMSS (only on early HDG models)
    FCC ID: FJ8USASEGA = TMSS (all models can have this, even HDG models)

    TMSS doesn't matter as much since you can get around that with a Game Genie. All official Genesis systems after the early model 1's have this (model 2, model 3, 32X, CDX, and probably X'EYE).

    So if you want to get a model 1 with good sound, get one where the CH3/CH4 switch doesn't occupy the space where the EXT port is, or one with the EXT port. If you don't want TMSS, check the FCC ID on the bottom.

  19. #19
    Cherry (Level 1)
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    227
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason P. View Post
    i believe the 32x has the TMSS chip on it. So if you have a non-TMSS system, it basicly makes you have one, unless you unhook the 32x everytime you use it.
    That's not true. If you plug in a 32X into a non-TMSS console, it will still boot straight to the game, not spew out the PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA ENTERPRISES LTD. screen. TMSS is within the Genesis, not its add-ons(they have their own BIOSes).

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbid
    so this leads to question 2

    if you have a higher quality stock genesis, do you lose the higher quality output by attaching a sega cd or 32x?
    No. In fact, the 32X has its own video encoder, meaning that the Genesis' native Composite output is completely bypassed. Instead, the Genesis' RGB outputs are fed into the 32X, mixed with the 32X's video, and then encoded into Composite and fed straight out as RGB. The quality isn't as good as a Genesis with a CXA1645 encoder, but if you have a Genesis 2 with the KA2195D, it's a MUST to have a 32X. The difference in video quality is like night and day. This also eliminates the rainbow banding on any Genesis Model 1, but it's not a proper fix for what could very well be a capacitor problem.

    As for the sound, on a Genesis Model 1, the quality doesn't change regardless of whether you have a Sega CD attached or not. But on a Genesis 2, there's a good bit of difference. If you have one of those with nasty sound output, the sound will be filtered(all hissing is gone), but the sound will still strain a bit. If you have one with clearer sound, the sound will come out even clearer than off the Genesis' A/V out, but you lose bass like that(I like high bass, so I use the A/V out on my VA4 Genesis 2(or any other Genesis 2 I have attached to it save for my VA1s and VA1.8s) rather than the Line Out on the Sega CD I have attached to it).

    EDIT: I just remembered something - one of my VA1 Genesis 2s suffers from the exact same rainbow banding as my VA3 Genesis Model 1s and VA5 MegaDrive Model 1, but to a much lesser extent. The rainbow banding could very well be caused by capacitors drying up. Only way to find out is to replace every capacitor in those systems.
    Last edited by Ace; 01-19-2010 at 10:58 AM.

  20. #20
    Reticulating Splines BetaWolf47's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Posts
    2,810
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Ah, I see the man himself has found this thread. Good guide by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by DuckTalesNES
    So bottom line, what is the best version? If I was going to own a single sega genesis for playing games on, which should I own?
    That's in the eye of the beholder. I personally prefer VA3 or VA4 model 2 systems, since they SHOULD have the best video and really clear audio. Most people prefer non-TMSS model 1 units because of the higher bass, but I myself prefer clarity over good bass.

    Only problem is if your system doesn't have the encoders it SHOULD, like how my model 2 VA3 has an 1145 instead of a 1645.
    Selling gaming accessories. Click

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-10-2013, 09:37 PM
  2. Genesis Model 1 no video output[fixed] Help with S-Video!
    By Ricky in forum Technical and Restoration Society
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-18-2012, 04:22 PM
  3. Recording Sega Genesis video output
    By Kitsune Sniper in forum Technical and Restoration Society
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-05-2010, 03:02 PM
  4. Genesis video output
    By The Manimal in forum Classic Gaming
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-28-2004, 01:44 PM
  5. Mega Drive/Genesis model 1 headphone output.
    By dreamcaster in forum Classic Gaming
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-20-2003, 12:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •