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Thread: Seller says that Paypal is holding my payment for 21 days...

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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    Question Seller says that Paypal is holding my payment for 21 days...

    ...and that I must leave positive feedback for the payment to be released. He says he won't ship until payment is confirmed.

    I've had more than 170 successful eBay transactions in over 4 years and I've ever heard about something like this from any seller.

    Some details:
    - Seller is in the US and me in Mexico but it's always that way.
    - I recently registered a new shipping address at eBay/Paypal because I learned that I had the wrong zip code before (never had a problem though since the wrong zip code is adjacent to mine). The address linked to my credit card is the same but with the incorrect zip code. Anyway, I've bought 10 or so items since then without problems.
    - The transaction details page at Paypal doesn't say anything about a holdup.

    So the question is: is him pulling my leg? He has good feedback (98%) but almost every negative seems to be from an international buyer.

    Of course I wouldn't ever leave positive feedback without having the items in my hands, so if what he says is true I guess I'll desist.

    Sorry if this isn't the appropriate forum to ask. Seemed to be the right one.

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    Kirby (Level 13) megasdkirby's Avatar
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    Not too sure, but I remember reading something like this on the Ebay Message Boards.

    So maybe there is some truth after all. Not too sure, though.

    I would like to know this as well.
    Proud owner of a Neo 25 Neo Geo Candy Cab!

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    I didn't think paypal cared about eBay feedback at all. I've read about people losing claims even though positive feedback was left for them.

    What kind of shipping did you pay for? My guess is the seller doesn't want to ship First-Class because they can't get tracking, so they are hoping if you leave positive feedback they can avoid an Item not Received claim.

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    He can't do that. In fact, it's against eBay's rules for him to hold onto your item until the payment is cleared - usually, they have access to the money when they provide a tracking number, but of course, he can't do that 'cause you're in Mexico. Yes, it sucks for sellers, but that's how it is. Furthermore, him saying "I won't ship this until you leave a positive" is feedback extortion, as defined by eBay's rules.

    He can't ask this of you. The only thing I can suggest is that you go to eBay's forums and ask for help, but I would report his ass ASAP. :P
    Last edited by Kitsune Sniper; 01-28-2010 at 10:36 PM.
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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornelius View Post
    What kind of shipping did you pay for? My guess is the seller doesn't want to ship First-Class because they can't get tracking, so they are hoping if you leave positive feedback they can avoid an Item not Received claim.
    In this situation Priority Mail because that was the only shipping option offered.

    I usually use First Class and Priority occasionally for more expensive/rare items. I know about Global Express but the rates are ridiculous. I once shipped an SNES cartridge to a Gamefaqs user at Seattle by EMS (Express Mail Service) from Mexico and it was $13. Global Express is about thrice than that, A.F.A.I.K.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Sniper View Post
    He can't do that. In fact, it's against eBay's rules for him to hold onto your item until the payment is cleared - usually, they have access to the money when they provide a tracking number, but of course, he can't do that 'cause you're in Mexico. Yes, it sucks for sellers, but that's how it is. Furthermore, him saying "I won't ship this until you leave a positive" is feedback extortion, as defined by eBay's rules.

    He can't ask this of you. The only thing I can suggest is that you go to eBay's forums and ask for help, but I would report his ass ASAP. :P
    He's giving me the option to wait until 21 days have passed...which is undesirable at least since that would be so close to the 45 day limit to file a claim.



    I'll try to work it out. If the seller doesn't budge what would you recommend?

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    Priority Mail from the US to Mexico DOES have tracking. It's the number on the customs form. He can use that. He doesn't need to withold anything, and you can tell him this. At any rate he CAN'T withold sending out your item. If he continues to after you inform him of this, just wait and file a claim with Ebay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiusclimber View Post
    Priority Mail from the US to Mexico DOES have tracking. It's the number on the customs form. He can use that. He doesn't need to withold anything, and you can tell him this. At any rate he CAN'T withold sending out your item. If he continues to after you inform him of this, just wait and file a claim with Ebay.
    IT. DOESN'T. WORK.

    The customs form number is NOT A VALID TRACKING NUMBER ACCORDING TO PAYPAL.
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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    Just sent an eBay message to the seller playing dumb. I'll see what his response is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    So the question is: is him pulling my leg?
    Nope, it's real. It's still pretty ridiculous, but he's not making stuff up. The only way this would be a valid excuse is if the seller truly needed the funds from the payment to ship because he has no other money, which is possible.

    http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/.../index.html#27

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Sniper View Post
    IT. DOESN'T. WORK.

    The customs form number is NOT A VALID TRACKING NUMBER ACCORDING TO PAYPAL.
    Thank you. Some of the misinformation spread around here is ridiculous. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post.
    .

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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    30. What can I do to avoid having eBay item holds?
    Your payments WILL BE NOT HELD if you meet all the following requirements:
    eBay Tenure: Greater than 6-months
    Total Feedback score: More than 100
    Dissatisfied Buyers %: Less than 5%
    Or if you meet all the following requirements:

    Detailed Seller Rating: Greater than 4.5
    Total Detailed Seller Ratings Received: More than 20 in the last 12-months
    According to that, shouldn't his payments NOT be held? Here are his stats:

    Positive Feedback (last 12 months): 98.8%
    Member since: Mar-01-08 in United States

    DSRs:
    Item as described 4.9
    Communication 4.7
    Shipping time 4.5
    Shipping and handling charges 4.7

    1 month 6 months 12 months
    Positive 255 1166 2324
    Neutral 11 26 32
    Negative 15 27 29
    Last edited by izarate; 01-29-2010 at 02:33 AM.

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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    Ok, apparently the seller is relying on this sentence for asking me to give positive feedback:

    "Will usually ship within 1 business day of receiving cleared payment."

    Once you click on the link:

    "The handling time is the number of business days the seller will take to ship the item after receiving your cleared payment. A payment is considered "cleared" after the money from the buyer has been deposited into the seller’s account. If the buyer pays by PayPal, the payment may clear immediately. However, in categories where permitted, if the buyer pays by check, money order, or eCheck, it may take several days."
    may??? ugh....


    I checked an auction that I won last week and had the same legend in the "Shipping and Payments" section. Still the seller didn't had any issues about shipping to Mexico even though his auction stated "US Only" (I arranged a deal with him previously by email).


    From the look of this it seems that he won't budge.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) ryborg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    I checked an auction that I won last week and had the same legend in the "Shipping and Payments" section. Still the seller didn't had any issues about shipping to Mexico even though his auction stated "US Only" (I arranged a deal with him previously by email).


    From the look of this it seems that he won't budge.
    Yeah, it looks like he's not violating any ebay policies or anything. I guess you're just going to have to wait and hope for the best.
    .

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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryborg View Post
    Yeah, it looks like he's not violating any ebay policies or anything. I guess you're just going to have to wait and hope for the best.
    No way I'm going to hope for the best on $78. I'll hit the eBay forums as Kitsune Sniper suggested and take off from there.

    If it really comes to hoping the best I guess I'll just cancel the transaction.
    Last edited by izarate; 01-29-2010 at 09:08 AM.

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    Kirby (Level 13) megasdkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    No way I'm going to hope for the best on $78. I'll hit the eBay forums as Kitsune Sniper suggested and take off from there.
    Good luck with that.

    Sellers on DP are very nice and reasonable. Sellers on the Ebay Message Boards...well...they might want to eat you alive. To them the seller is never wrong (even if he/she/it is a scammer) and buyers are pure evil. You will have many sellers put you on their BBL for questioning seller authority (no matter what it is).

    My suggestions? DO NOT USE the same ID you use to buy to post there. Use a new, fake one, else you will feel the wrath of cry baby sellers and their BBL threats.

    If it really comes to hoping the best I guess I'll just cancel the transaction.
    I hope everything turns out great in the end.

    Hope for the best!
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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasdkirby View Post
    My suggestions? DO NOT USE the same ID you use to buy to post there. Use a new, fake one, else you will feel the wrath of cry baby sellers and their BBL threats.
    Ok, will do.



    I'm just a little upset by the situation because he didn't warn me about this. I mean the "Domestic handling time" states that he ships after clearing the payment...but every other seller has that.

    I mean what about a note on the listing stating that international buyers will have to wait 21 days due to that? Besides, does he make US residents wait that long too? He has to actually ship the product to get the tracking number, doesn't he? That would violate his "ship after payment clears" policy, isn't it?

    I would understand if I had recent negatives or something but my record is absolutely clean. 100% straight positives in over 4 years. Paid right in the same minute he sent the invoice (no joking, got invoice at 12:16, Paypal payment email gets to my inbox at 12:16 too). I don't know if I set some red flags or something.

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    Great Puma (Level 12) jb143's Avatar
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    Isn't the reason the funds are being held to make sure that you recieve the item before he'd be able to take the money and run? Just in case you'd need to file a claim? Seems like some goofy loop hole you two are stuck in to me.
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    The payment has cleared, it's just on hold. The seller is not allowed to make you wait 21 days for the payment to be released. From the Selling Practices Policy:

    If PayPal places a temporary hold on payment received for an item you sold, you're not allowed to hold shipment, pending the release of those funds (after 21 days)
    As others have said, he's also not allowed to request positive feedback before shipping, that's feedback extortion.

    Edit: Here's a link to the Selling Practices Policy:

    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...practices.html
    Last edited by Scissors; 01-29-2010 at 11:27 AM.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) ryborg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasdkirby View Post
    Sellers on the Ebay Message Boards...well...they might want to eat you alive.
    The official ebay messages boards are absolute garbage. I wouldn't go there for anything. They're so biased and hateful, it's not even fun to troll there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scissors View Post
    The payment has cleared, it's just on hold. The seller is not allowed to make you wait 21 days for the payment to be released. From the Selling Practices Policy:
    Nice. I've never seen that written before. I'd report this guy ASAP with the link Scissors posted. The 21-day hold policy is still one of ebay's worst ideas and it only causes sellers to try to pull stuff like this.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    Ok, will do.
    I'm just a little upset by the situation because he didn't warn me about this. I mean the "Domestic handling time" states that he ships after clearing the payment...but every other seller has that.

    I mean what about a note on the listing stating that international buyers will have to wait 21 days due to that? Besides, does he make US residents wait that long too? He has to actually ship the product to get the tracking number, doesn't he? That would violate his "ship after payment clears" policy, isn't it?

    I would understand if I had recent negatives or something but my record is absolutely clean. 100% straight positives in over 4 years. Paid right in the same minute he sent the invoice (no joking, got invoice at 12:16, Paypal payment email gets to my inbox at 12:16 too). I don't know if I set some red flags or something.
    You need to understand that ebay is a buyers market. It doesn't matter what the seller's policy is. It is paypal that has the final say. And even you have the power to get your money back by any means necessary. Here's the policy every seller has regardless of whether or not they want it:

    1. The seller has a 45 day return policy. Paypal will believe a lie about an item not described claim, and if you don't want to lie, you can do a chargeback or a bank reversal to get your money back. Just make sure you ship the items back if you do.
    2. The seller will ship internationally unless they block international buyers.
    3. The seller has 14 days to ship the item. If you have not received your item by 14 days, you may open up a paypal claim for item not received.

    My suggestion is to not contact the seller anymore, and just wait to see if he ships your item. If he doesn't ship it by 16 days and is still ignoring you, then you file a claim with paypal for item not received. You will win since international shipping has no tracking (hence why I personally block international buyers on my seller account). If you then receive the item after, it is your choice whether or not to refund the seller.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) ryborg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zthun View Post
    3. The seller has 14 days to ship the item. If you have not received your item by 14 days, you may open up a paypal claim for item not received.
    You don't even need to wait that long. I've had buyers who thought they were "sticking it to me" by paying then IMMEDIATELY filing a dispute.
    .

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