Huge Genesis/Sega CD discussion(some questions)

[j_factor]

I have read a lot of the interviews that SEGA 16 had with programmers who made games for the Sega CD. Those programmers all seem to say that the Sega CD was basically a very good storage device for data, and had some additional scaling features the Genesis lacked, but overall was not the advanced machinery they were hoping for.

So I wouldn't say it was underated at all. If anything, it promised a little too much.

I can't fathom how people could expect it to be much more than it was (hardware-wise). I understand the disappointment that Sega didn't include a new VDP to expand the color palette, but what else could you possibly (and realistically) want out of it? I mean the Turbo CD was just a CD drive with a limited amount of RAM and one added PCM sound channel. The Sega CD has its own CPU, faster than the Genesis's, and with the ability to use both. It has twice as much RAM as the Turbo Duo / Super CD, and several times more than the original CD-ROM2. It has a sound chip with 8 PCM sound channels (separate from the ability to play CD audio), which works in tandem with the two Genesis sound chips. And it has scaling and rotation effects significantly more advanced than the SNES's Mode 7. They really covered everything except the color palette. Some might argue for a faster drive speed, but that's really not realistic given the time frame, and not very necessary considering most of the games that came out for it.

[tomaitheous]

the sega cd is not the epic failure the internet makes it out to be. it was on the market for several years, has several hardware revisions, and a library of well over 100 games.

Yes it is. Given the track record of the Genesis, and huge number of great softs, the SegaCD is a huge-epic failure. There are about 10-15 titles worth owning. The Genesis in comparison has like over 100 minimum of just "great" games.

OP:

Sonic CD - I don't like it. Didn't like it when it first came out BITD. Couldn't put my finger specifically on why, but since someone posted that the original Sonic creator wasn't involved, that's probably the prime reason right there. I do like the sound track though (the US sound track).
Vay - Kinda boring RPG. It's one of those games you buy, only because you have the SegaCD and you'll play almost anything halfway decent on it that you would normally skip over on the Genesis/SNES.
Lunar(s) - Great games. Not as good as Square titles BITD in my opinion.
Snatcher - a must own. Graphic adventure game.
Terminator - never cared for this game. Be it cart or CD (I know the versions to different).
Final Fight CD - if you have a SegaCD, you'd be a fool not to buy this.
Popful Mail - nice little action RPG (more action, less RPG).
Road Avenger - It's a FMV title, yes, but it's an exception to the crappy FMV games. Unless... you like crappy FMV games, then this system is right up your alley.
Time Gal - not as cool as RA, but it's worth picking up for a try out.
Cobra Command - I think that's what it's called. It's ok. Better than TG, definitely not a cool as RA.
Robo Aleste - Badass! Get this game.

And... I think that's about it. I might have forgot some games and there are some other games some people find to be decent, but I care about those style of games - so they might as well be FMV crap

BTW - both EC are really shitty. People like shitty games, that's fine. But you need to call a dog, a dog.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'm sure he meant epic failure in the context of little to nothing of worth to be had in software... Which seems to be the general vibe out there.

It had/has a ton of potential that was mostly squandered except for the dozen or so titles that surpassed the quality bar. Take the Peir Solar HB release, game on cart, expanded audio option through the SegaCD... The market never even got that feature. Hell, I've had a SegaCD since it was a new thing, and I had no idea that was even possible...

Given the proper atmosphere and correct management, the SegaCD, relatively unchanged in hardware, would have a much different place in general gaming history than it currently occupies.

In some strange "What If..." Bizarro Universe out there, the 32X never existed and the SNES Playstation hit the market... Wonder what my Bizarro clone is playing these days. He probably owns a Sega/Microsoft 360X and a Sony/Nintendo PSWii.

[Zoltor]

I'm sure he meant epic failure in the context of little to nothing of worth to be had in software... Which seems to be the general vibe out there.

It had/has a ton of potential that was mostly squandered except for the dozen or so titles that surpassed the quality bar. Take the Peir Solar HB release, game on cart, expanded audio option through the SegaCD... The market never even got that feature. Hell, I've had a SegaCD since it was a new thing, and I had no idea that was even possible...

Given the proper atmosphere and correct management, the SegaCD, relatively unchanged in hardware, would have a much different place in general gaming history than it currently occupies.

In some strange "What If..." Bizarro Universe out there, the 32X never existed and the SNES Playstation hit the market... Wonder what my Bizarro clone is playing these days. He probably owns a Sega/Microsoft 360X and a Sony/Nintendo PSWii.

Yea I know tell me about it, the Pier Solar sound on the 2nd video blew my mind away. Simularly high quality music(even so, Pier Solar CD is probally a step higher in quality)has only been seen since the PS2(and even then, very rarely so). I never imagined the Sega CD was capable of such(in fact, even after that video, I couldn't believe that was coming from the CD, and not perhaps a soundtrack running off a PC or something in the backround).

There is no doubt in my mind, that if Sega properly advertised the Sega CD, and what it was trully capeable of(which mind you, clearly had the 3rd party support required), that Sega would be still in the console developing business today.

[todesengel]

Spiderman Vs. The Kingpin and Puggsy are two more really good Sega CD games I didn't see mentioned yet. Spiderman Vs. The Kingpin is completely different from the Genesis cartridge and Puggsy added two more bosses, FMV and CD audio compaired to the cart release. I know Puggsy isn't a CD exclusive but everyone else pretty much listed games I would've suggested.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Android Assault: Revenge of Bari-Arm and Robo Aleste. Two shmups, Android is sidescroll and Aleste is vert (of course). Sol Deace is alright, I prefer the cart version Sol Feace though. I get impatient when I'm in the mood to blow stuff up.

[Zoltor]

Android Assault: Revenge of Bari-Arm and Robo Aleste. Two shmups, Android is sidescroll and Aleste is vert (of course). Sol Deace is alright, I prefer the cart version Sol Feace though. I get impatient when I'm in the mood to blow stuff up.

I saw a glimse of Sol Feace in the AVGN Sega CD video, but sadly he only breifly mentioned(as it seems to be an actual good game, and the AVGN only reviews the shitty games that suck ass), so I'll probally check that out sometime.

Android Assault has been mentioned a few times already, so I'll probally go looking into that as well.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'm not sure, but I could have swapped Deace and Feace... Oh, it doesn't matter much. They're both fairly cheap, and the CD version is a common pack-in.

[Aussie2B]

Vay is pretty generic and "meh". The only reason it gets any attention is because Working Designs hyped up their releases beyond belief and Sega Genesis/CD owners were desperate for Japanese RPGs since they had pretty slim pickings.

My main problem with the Sega CD is that almost all of the lauded titles are on the uncommon and pricier side. They're not the kinds of games you're likely to find in the wild. Because of this, my collection is kind of so-so. I have come across Sega CD stuff quite a few times, but it's always junk like Sewer Shark and Tomcat Alley. I can back up Road Avenger and Rise of the Dragon, though. They're cheap and fun.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I can understand nuking Sewer Shark, though I do have a twisted fondness for it...

[A Black Falcon]

Vay - Working Designs made it really hard... only play if you like average oldschool RPGs with lots of random encounters and a high difficulty level.

Lunar: The Silver Star -- Fantastic game... I think I like the PSX version best, but it's actually fairly different on Sega CD, and definitely worth playing.

Lunar 2: Eternal Blue -- Even better game, this is one of the best games on the Sega CD. The PSX version of this one changed less than Silver Star Story Complete did; areas were redesigned and made smaller, visible enemies were added, some FMVs were added and others removed... I think this version's the better version, better than the PSX port, but both are great.

Sonic CD -- It's a great game, but it plays differently from any other Sonic game and there's definitely a learning curve. Also, it requires patience. You will not get the good ending if you just run to the right. Instead, you have to take things slowly, be careful to never hit a Future sign and then run fast enough to warp to the future, find a Past sign (much rarer than Future signs) and warp to the past, be careful to avoid all Future warps, find the hidden robot-creating machine in the Past, and destroy it by attacking it. Then you can go to the exit. Do this in stages 1 and 2 of every world to get the good ending. (Stage 3 of each world is the bossfight) Alterately you can get the good ending by getting all the Chaos Emeralds, but for me at least that's much more difficult... It took me a while to get used to the game, but it is pretty good.

Shining Force CD is fantastic. Dark Wizard is perhaps even better.

But yeah, the Sega CD is a pretty good platform with a good variety of good games...

Shmups -- Android Assault, Sol-Feace (also on Genesis), Keio Flying Squadron, Silpheed, Robo Aleste, Lords of Thunder (also on Turbo CD) -- All at least good, and the exclusives are all great, I would say.

Using scaling functions (3d-ish games) -- Battlecorps, AH-3 ThunderStrike, SoulStar, Batman Returns (driving stages), The Adventures of Batman & Robin, Night Striker (JP only). The first three are from Core Designs and are fantastic, but very difficult, games. SoulStar and Battlecorps really are standout Sega CD exclusives in my opinion, despite their very high difficulty levels and lack of saving they're well worth playing!

And then there are other platformers... most are Genesis ports, but still, Earthworm Jim CD is the best console version of EWJ1, Ecco the Dolphin 1 and 2 are outstanding titles with truly exceptional soundtracks, Flink (not released on cart in the US, but released on CD) is a highly under-appreciated game more people should play, Mickey Mania is probably the best version of the game, Wild Woody's really not that bad...

Yes, the Sega CD didn't do as well as it could or should have, but even so it has a fairly solid library of games and is definitely a good system. It wasn't a complete failure; I think that it gets blamed for more than it deserves thanks to the 32X and Sega dropping it somewhat early, but even so it did have a 3 year lifespan in the US and a decent library.

IIRC you can play it without the cart - you have to erase whichever book you played first (after completing the other one) - that will create room for the third book and the museum battle.

No, each one of the first two chapters requires its own save file, and each one of those save files fills the entire internal system memory (which is a massive 8KB).

In order to play the third book you need save files for both of the first two, which means you need the memory card. There are no third-party Sega CD memory cards, so you're stuck with the somewhat pricey Sega-brand ones. At 128KB though, they hold quite a bit.

[Oldskool]

Yeah Soul Star is freakin' amazing. It really pushes the Sega CD. That's a game that really shows off it's capabilities!! Thunderstrike was badd-ass too.

[KHELVIN]

No love for Dungeon Explorer? It's the only 4 player game I know of for the console, and one of very few rpg"ish" 4 player games. (think Gauntlet,.. well kinda)

That being said my favs for the system are

Snatcher--must own
Lunar 1, and 2-- both very good, some ways better than the remakes
Popful mail-- action rpg, Some of the best voice acting evah
Shining Cd-- found the genesis games to be better, still a great game however
Robo aleste--buy this
Android assault--this too
Dark wizard---- good strategy game, not great imo tho
Keio FS-- Personally don't think its worth the price, then again I bought it...
Snatcher---When I beat the game in the long long ago, I watched the ending jaw agape, and after the credits... I reset the game and beat it again. Since then I'Ve played through countless times. If this was the ONLY game for the system, I'd still own one... so yeah it's pretty much my fav game.
Monkey Island-- If you can stand the load time, this game is great. I almost peed myself laughing at "What pants?" and to this day when I cant think of an witty comeback I'll say "how appropriate you fight like a cow"
Double Switch--- worth it to me just to point and laugh at Cory Haim
Final Fight Cd---Good beat em up
Eternal Champs/Sonic cd/Ecco/--- meh, for the price good buys
Vay-- Forgot this one, I dunno, pretty good, but no Lunar

Sadly, that's about it imo,.. Oh wait did I mention Snatcher?

[A Black Falcon]

No love for Dungeon Explorer? It's the only 4 player game I know of for the console, and one of very few rpg"ish" 4 player games. (think Gauntlet,.. well kinda)

That being said my favs for the system are

Snatcher--must own
Lunar 1, and 2-- both very good, some ways better than the remakes
Popful mail-- action rpg, Some of the best voice acting evah
Shining Cd-- found the genesis games to be better, still a great game however
Robo aleste--buy this
Android assault--this too
Dark wizard---- good strategy game, not great imo tho
Keio FS-- Personally don't think its worth the price, then again I bought it...
Snatcher---When I beat the game in the long long ago, I watched the ending jaw agape, and after the credits... I reset the game and beat it again. Since then I'Ve played through countless times. If this was the ONLY game for the system, I'd still own one... so yeah it's pretty much my fav game.
Monkey Island-- If you can stand the load time, this game is great. I almost peed myself laughing at "What pants?" and to this day when I cant think of an witty comeback I'll say "how appropriate you fight like a cow"
Double Switch--- worth it to me just to point and laugh at Cory Haim
Final Fight Cd---Good beat em up
Eternal Champs/Sonic cd/Ecco/--- meh, for the price good buys
Vay-- Forgot this one, I dunno, pretty good, but no Lunar

Sadly, that's about it imo,.. Oh wait did I mention Snatcher?

Dungeon Explorer... kind of forgot that one. I don't really like the Sega CD one that much, really... I like Gauntlet a lot, so I like the style of game, but it's just kind of annoying and flawed. The levelling system isn't well thought out. Now, in the first Dungeon Explorer game (on TG16) you only levelled up when you killed a boss. I forget about the second one, but in this one you have a standard levelling system where you level up by killing enemies... but the problem is, the game is just too hard in single player. It's a very difficult, very frustrating game. It also has some exploitable elements, like the respawning money in the central area. It's an okay game, sure, but it's got some real problems. Oh, it's also pretty disappointing in the number of class options; there are only six, far fewer than the two TG16/TGCD games. The graphics and music are good, but that's not enough.

Popful Mail and Snatcher are fantastic, of course, yes. Definite must-plays. Expensive but fantastic games. (like Keio!) Popful Mail's pretty funny and a lot of fun to play for anyone who likes side-scrolling action-RPGs. Best version of the game, and the only one in English.

Keio's probably my favorite of the Sega CD shmups; Silpheed would be second, probably followed by Robo Aleste, Lords of Thunder, Android Assault, and well behind those five, Sol-Feace.

As for the adventure games, they're mostly FMV games, which I mostly dislike, or PC ports, which are better on the PC. I mean honestly, sure Willy Beamish has voice acting here but not on the PC, but that's not enough when the load times are such a horrendously annoying problem... play it on PC. Play The Secret of Monkey Island on PC too. Same for Rise of the Dragon; sure it's okay on Sega CD, but it's censored, while it isn't on PC... and there you get more colors too of course.

I haven't really played Eternal Champions Sega CD, but I do have the Genesis game, and I'm not a fan. It's ridiculously difficult and not much fun to play. I like Street Fighter style fighting games the best (either Capcom or SNK's are best). I'd take even Mortal Kombat over Eternal Champions, I think, and I've never been a big MK fan.

I mean, if you take the time to learn the moves and get good at it, I'm sure it's fun. But is it really worth that time when there are so many better fighting games out there? I'd say probably not, really.

The game is the best fighting game on Sega CD, though; its only real competition is probably Revengers of Vengeance, which is interesting enough to be worth trying, really; I mean, it's not exactly great at anything, but how many RPG-Shmup-Fighting games are there?

Oh, I've always kind of liked Rebel Assault... it was one of the first CD games I ever owned (for the PC), and the Sega CD version is just as entertaining. It's probably not a great game objectively, but I like it. There are several other rail/lightgun-ish shooters also worth mentioning -- beyond Night Striker, there's also Microcosm, Novastorm, Starblade, etc. All are perhaps worth a look.

There are plenty more if you look... Puggsy's worth a look too for instance. It does also have a US Genesis cart release, though, so Sega CD isn't essential, but it is good. And for imports Taito's other game (they also did Night Striker; both games were Japan-only), The Ninja Warriors, is also a good choicel for anyone who can play imports... it's a great port of the arcade game, with the 2-player mode intact, fantastic music, and the quite entertaining "Zuntata Mode" backstory video thing that is very odd, yet interesting (fully voice acted in English, with Japanese subtitles, noir-style story...).

Other imports of note include the 1 player only beat 'em up Annet Again (Anet Futatabi, whatever), that is a sequel to El Viento (which was a sequel to Earnest Evans), which is frustrating but can be fun, Devastator, a pretty good side-scrolling-action game slash shmup, etc.

Note that you can change a Sega CD iso's region via some apps, and then if you burn the iso+mp3 image (via a cuetable) you can play any Sega CD game on any region system without any kind of special cart required. You just need an iso image of the game's data file (and music tracks) and a CD-R.

[PresidentLeever]

If you happen to know Japanese, get Shadowrun. It plays like a combination of Snatcher and Shining Force.

Here's a neat article on the entire RPG library:
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sega/...g-library.html

[chrisbid]

Yes it is. Given the track record of the Genesis, and huge number of great softs, the SegaCD is a huge-epic failure. There are about 10-15 titles worth owning. The Genesis in comparison has like over 100 minimum of just "great" games.

describing the sega cd as an epic failure is irresponsible adjective inflation.

epic fail is the 32x and virtual boy, systems on the market for less than a year and libraries of under 40 games

there is a wide gulf between epic failure and runaway success. the sega cd had a nice little run and fits nicely in this category. (once again) it was by far the most successful console expansion ever released. it had a better run than the intellivioice, mattel ecs, starpath supercharger, famicom disc system, alladin deck enhancer, turbo graphx cd, 32x, jaguar cd, n64 expansion pack or any other gimmicky console add-on you can think of.

[tomaitheous]

There is no doubt in my mind, that if Sega properly advertised the Sega CD, and what it was trully capeable of(which mind you, clearly had the 3rd party support required), that Sega would be still in the console developing business today.

How old are you!? The SegaCD was advertised like crazy, from the time it came out (and what hyped before that) till near the Genesis death. It wasn't advertisement, it was poor selection of games and an over bundance of crappy FMV titles. Had there been more titles like Pier Solar and the top titles most people list, that system would have been awesome.

Also,... the system uses CD audio. How can you *not* expect it to handle such music. Your amazement... amazes me.

[josekortez]

Spiderman Vs. The Kingpin and Puggsy are two more really good Sega CD games I didn't see mentioned yet. Spiderman Vs. The Kingpin is completely different from the Genesis cartridge and Puggsy added two more bosses, FMV and CD audio compaired to the cart release. I know Puggsy isn't a CD exclusive but everyone else pretty much listed games I would've suggested.

I mentioned Amazing Spider-Man vs. Kingpin in my first post. Outside of the voiced cutscenes, it really isn't that amazing of a game, no pun intended, but it is something that I'm glad I own for the system. Before I recently got a copy of that game in trade, I hadn't played many of the games I own for the SCD outside of Sol-Feace. But it is pretty good, although the sewer sections in Spider-Man remind me a bit too much of the sewer sections in Alien 3 on the Genesis.

[Zoltor]

describing the sega cd as an epic failure is irresponsible adjective inflation.

epic fail is the 32x and virtual boy, systems on the market for less than a year and libraries of under 40 games

there is a wide gulf between epic failure and runaway success. the sega cd had a nice little run and fits nicely in this category. (once again) it was by far the most successful console expansion ever released. it had a better run than the intellivioice, mattel ecs, starpath supercharger, famicom disc system, alladin deck enhancer, turbo graphx cd, 32x, jaguar cd, n64 expansion pack or any other gimmicky console add-on you can think of.

Yea, it is far from an "epic" failure, infact if you factor in the fact, that it was a addon, not a sepperate console, it did very good.

However it crearly could've done much better if Sega advertised it properly, and spent more resouces supporting it, instead of later coming out with that POS 32x.

[chrisbid]

Yea, it is far from an "epic" failure, infact if you factor in the fact, that it was a addon, not a sepperate console, it did very good.

However it crearly could've done much better if Sega advertised it properly, and spent more resouces supporting it, instead of later coming out with that POS 32x.

the sega cd had a TON of advertising. beavis and butthead was a monster hit in the early 90s, and its demographic was perfectly in line with segas target. there was a sega cd commercial on every week night during beavis and butthead.

but the sega cd, and cd-roms in general were an experimental platform. sega tinkered with different ideas on how to use the enormous space cds provided. however, the killer app, the sonic, the street fighter II, the mortal kombat was never found on the platform. lunar was indeed the killer app in japan, with that game selling nearly 1 for 1 to sega cd hardware sales there, but rpgs were more of a niche genre in the us in the early 90s.