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Thread: Radical Dreamers -Mandarake-

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) Kamigami's Avatar
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    Default Radical Dreamers -Mandarake-

    This is old i suppose:
    http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/10/own-the-long-lo/
    I knew Radical was expensive .. rare.. ect..

    what make me curious is the fact that a guy in the comment point out that is pretty simple write a blank mempack.
    Never thought about that.

    But if it's that simple to made a copy of this game even in the actual form .. how it's possible the price is so high in any case?

    just cause it's mandarake?

    How you can tell the game is downloaded in the 90' and noty just popped in by writer...

    f*** is a loooot of money.

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    Red (Level 21) Jorpho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamigami View Post
    what make me curious is the fact that a guy in the comment point out that is pretty simple write a blank mempack.
    Writing a game to a satellaview mempack is probably not all that trivial. You can see a pic at the bottom of http://bof2.blogspot.com/ that shows someone using a BS-X cart as a dev unit, though, so maybe it's not impossible.

    Certainly, I've never heard of anyone doing something like this before, and the fact that the price is so high suggests that if it is possible, it's not something that a lot of people can do.
    "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." --Bertrand Russel (attributed)

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    Not everyone has access to the know-how to accomplish that, not to mention the tools and expertise. And the people that do certaintly don't have an unlimited supply of both BS-X units and mempacks either.

    I guess that the best one can hope is that someone takes upon himself to hack the ROM to make it playable on a real SNES without the need of a BS-X (RD can be player on emulators but the emus emulate the BS-X to do so) like the F-Zero 2 hack that is floating around.
    Last edited by izarate; 03-15-2010 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    I guess that the best one can hope is that someone takes upon himself to hack the ROM to make it playable on a real SNES without the need of a BS-X (RD can be player on emulators but the emus emulate the BS-X to do so) like the F-Zero 2 hack that is floating around.
    BS-X emulation is a relatively recent phenomenon - Radical Dreamers actually behaves very nicely in emulators that know nothing about the BS-X. (The only catch is that sometimes you get a weird menu before you can start the game, but it doesn't cause any problems whatsoever.) That is certainly not the case for all BS-X games, but the same can be said for many of them.

    Also, http://www.gamereproductions.com/pro...-Dreamers.html.
    Last edited by J'orfeaux; 03-15-2010 at 02:52 PM.
    "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." --Bertrand Russel (attributed)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorpho View Post
    Well, in that case there's nothing to fuss about then.

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    the problem is not playing the game.
    As you said is not that simple to write a mempack (you need the hardware, a blank mempack ... software , witer and stuffs)
    but obv .. it's possible.
    This make me fuss about the possibility that someone can do that.

    Who knows if that mempack wasn't flashed this way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamigami View Post
    but obv .. it's possible.
    It might be possible. You can't say for certain that the mempack in question was not actually written to all those years ago when the Satellaview service was actually in operation.

    This make me fuss about the possibility that someone can do that.
    I suppose we'll know if someone can do that if many more carts of this nature start turning up.
    "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." --Bertrand Russel (attributed)

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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    Not everyone has access to the know-how to accomplish that, not to mention the tools and expertise. And the people that do certaintly don't have an unlimited supply of both BS-X units and mempacks either.
    How many games can a mempack hold? There aren't that many Satellaview games. Any idea how many mempacks would be needed for the full set? Unless it's one per game or something I figure quantity of mempacks wouldn't be an insurmountable problem.
    Last edited by TonyTheTiger; 03-15-2010 at 06:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger View Post
    How many games can a mempack hold? There aren't that many Satellaview games. Any idea how many mempacks would be needed for the full set? Unless it's one per game or something I figure quantity of mempacks wouldn't be an insurmountable problem.
    There is a LOT of Undumped Satellaview game data that is unaccounted for. We do not even have all the games that could be "downloaded" like Radical Dreamers, never mind the Soundlink programs (Off the top of my head, the Kirby no Omachahako line is not complete, we're missing the "Bakusho Mondai" version of Wario's Woods, There's probably a LOT of "Tamori no Picross" segments, and other celebrity game lines include "Yuki no Jigsaws" and "WAIWAI Kids". There's also Satellaview variations of commerical releases that aren't dumped. Soundlink data? There's so much Soundlink data not accounted for it'd make this post a really long one.). These could take hundreds upon hundreds more Memory Packs being obtained to be properly archived - and most of the time a pack such as that is identified before a purchase, it ends up in the hands of a hoarding collector rather than a true archiver.

    And quite a few of the collectors probably don't even know what they're buying.

    To the best of my knowledge there is no "current" Method to re-write data into a Memory Pack - and that is likely for the best, since I'm still in the pursuit of data preservation, and being able to re-write data into the Packs could be a real hazard for that.
    I've asked other collectors high and low and they know of nothing that would resemble that, as well. Most likely, one was never developed because interest in the Satellaview is a recent phenomenon (Which I probably blame myself partly for).
    Therefore, the most likely scenario is that that Radical Dreamers Memory Pack has been going around for many years. I have heard from some buddies that Squaresoft's Satellaview game library does not "expire" like some other titles, which adds to their collectibility.

    Memory Packs can hold up to 8M (1024kb) of data. To the best of my knowledge, data tended to come in chunks ranging from 1M to taking up the whole Memory Pack, and file size was more or less your major concern when dealing with the downloads.

    http://bsx.superfamicom.org/
    Last edited by Kiddo; 03-15-2010 at 07:46 PM.

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    Interesting. I didn't know the downloads were that diverse.

    Though this does answer one question unrelated to this thread but that's been brought up in others.

    Digital data can be "collectible." At least to some people. Makes you wonder what will happen in the future once the online servers for the current consoles go down and people start hunting for 360s with certain games installed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger View Post
    Digital data can be "collectible." At least to some people. Makes you wonder what will happen in the future once the online servers for the current consoles go down and people start hunting for 360s with certain games installed.
    Is backing up a 360's hard drive not a trivial matter?

    For that matter, has DSiware been cracked already?
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    I don't know. Maybe it's not a perfect comparison.

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    Not quite a perfect comparison - digital download material of this era (Dreamcast onwards, I'd say) is generally a lot easier to obtain - and thus will probably be less collectible - than Satellaview, Sega Channel, XBand or Megamodem/Meganet stuff (or even Famicom Modem stuff, which was not even used for any actual gaming), because in the current era these services are the norm, rather than unique, quirky ideas.

    Also, part of what makes Satellaview material collectible is that very little of it has ever been rereleased - or even acknowledged - by Nintendo since the service died out. I will assume that the Xbox 360's successor would be spat upon by the fanbase if all the Xbox Live Arcade downloads were rendered useless, and thus Microsoft would be certain to bring back it's old content - same goes for PSN.

    I think the real test to see whether a modern-era "Digital" download would be collectible years from now is to see what happens to, say, Doc Louis's Punch-Out!! when the Wii gets a "collecting" scene.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorpho View Post
    It might be possible. You can't say for certain that the mempack in question was not actually written to all those years ago when the Satellaview service was actually in operation.

    I suppose we'll know if someone can do that if many more carts of this nature start turning up.
    I don't know if there's a lot of mempacks around
    (in any case is not that diffucult to find em... )
    and ebay is full of BSx carts or satella systems

    But i read on the net that might be possible even without the satella.. just with a flash programmer like the tototek one. (you need to program the things to work with the cart of course)

    I pointed this out as you all said.. collecting satella games is recent phenomenon but nowdays doing repro is not a voodoo stuffs anymore (or a chinese).
    Tomorrow this can be a problem.
    Especially for what said by Kiddo. (preservetion of original contents)

    the discussion splitted in a very interesting way btw.

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    The theoretical possibility is there, but, once again, if there was any suspicion that anyone was doing this -currently-, then there'd be an outcry among the people who want to preserve cart contents (Because overwriting Memory Pack data is a damage to this goal, even if the data is locked from memory), and also, the value of a Radical Dreamers 8M Pack would go down drastically due to such a reproduction method being known.

    As for eBay, I tend to check there on a regular basis, but I haven't noticed any case of a knwon "Rare Satellaview game" being put up for sale there in the past year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I think the real test to see whether a modern-era "Digital" download would be collectible years from now is to see what happens to, say, Doc Louis's Punch-Out!! when the Wii gets a "collecting" scene.
    I think the Wii is the one current console where there won't be much of a problem at all considering how easy it is to manipulate the digital content. I'm pretty sure every piece of data has already been backed up and catalogued. Once the Wii dies it shouldn't be hard at all to obtain all the content from the net.

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    This feels like a scam to me. You can get Satellaviews for cheaper. The price increase is just for the digital data. That is not worth $550, given a number of factors. One, it's just a short visual novel. Two, the game was translated and made workable by emulators years ago, and it is freely distributed around the internet.

    Maybe it's hard to put the game onto a flash pak, but does that work, that service, increase the resale value of this worth $550? I can't dictate what fans pay for what, but I wouldn't pay it. But if they can actually convince Chrono fans that this is an essential collectible, they'll gouge them for all they're worth.

    I know some purists want to be able to play everything on their tv in the real system with the real controller, but this isn't even a game really. It's a short story. You don't get anything special out of playing it on your tv with a controller, even if you could read Japanese.

    Data is identical to all other copies of the same data. It's not unique, not valuable. Tangible things that were made in a factory and come in limited authentic numbers, like real game paks, those we can put a value on. You cannot make an identical, authentic copy of a cart.
    Last edited by Snapple; 03-17-2010 at 12:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapple View Post
    You don't get anything special out of playing it on your tv with a controller, even if you could read Japanese.
    Well, you get to hear Mitsuda's fantastic score on the original hardware. (You will find no end of grousing regarding the inaccuracy of sound emulation in current SNES emulators. Whether or not such grousing is justified is a different matter.)

    Have you played this game yourself? Going through all the scenarios, it's not actually that short.

    Data is identical to all other copies of the same data. It's not unique, not valuable. Tangible things that were made in a factory and come in limited authentic numbers, like real game paks, those we can put a value on. You cannot make an identical, authentic copy of a cart.
    You lost me entirely there.
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    I think what he's saying, and I think it's a reasonable argument, is that unlike paying $550 for a copy of a game that is otherwise hard to find a legitimate copy of, here it's $550 for digital data that happens to be stored on a Satellaview memory card.

    In other words, they're not charging $550 for a copy of Radical Dreamers. They're charging $550 because it's Radical Dreamers stored on a Satellaview memory card. Or, on the flip side, $550 for a Satellaview memory card that happens to have a copy of Radical Dreamers on it.

    It's like the cost is attributed to the state the data is in, not because the item itself is rare or valuable or anything like that. It's more like the data is just in a rare state by being on that particular memory card. Or that particular memory card is in a rare state by containing a copy of Radical Dreamers.

    It'd be like valuing a PSOne save file more because it's on an official Sony memory card rather than on a Dex Drive floppy or something. There's just something arbitrary about it.
    Last edited by TonyTheTiger; 03-17-2010 at 01:42 PM.

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    On the other hand, it is at present difficult (if not impossible) to transfer Radical Dreamers onto a Satellaview memory card.

    A better analogy might be to say that a photocopied photograph of the Mona Lisa is less valuable than an abstract copy of the Mona Lisa painstakingly recreated by hand using, oh, bits of smashed NES carts.
    "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." --Bertrand Russel (attributed)

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