Golden Axe - ArcadeVGA + J-Pac Problems

[porkins]

So anyone who saw my older post knows I bought this and managed to get it upstairs into my game room. It just BARELY fit. The choke point was the landing at the bottom of the stairs, 4 steps up. But we got it in.

The machine works very well. Sound knob is touchy, so the sound can go in and out. I need to replace the potentiometer there. The second player joystick and buttons don't work 100%, but I plan on replacing all buttons and joysticks, and adding additional buttons so that there are 6 per person. Here is a link to my Golden Axe Flikr Set.

One other problem is the video. The color looks fine, might need some small adjustments. However, sometimes one or 2 colors will go off during play, and if I hit the side/shake it/etc, it will come back and look normal again. I have no problem replacing the wiring and/or connectors. But this might be a cap issue, right? I need help identifying the monitor. I know it is a Philips and all, but I think it is a rebranded WG, right? I guess I want to know how I would identify this to someone else if I needed a cap kit.

The last main issue would be to then remove the PCB, and hook up a MAME machine. There is a harness of some sort connected to the PCB, but I didn't get a picture of it, so I have to check it again. So I'm also going to need some advice on exactly what parts to buy from Ultimarc. If it is a JAMMA harness, would I be better off using the JAMMA/PC interface they sell, or get one the I-PAC things and the VGA card, etc. And would I then need the VGA signal booster for this monitor?

Thanks for everyone's input!

[TheDomesticInstitution]

You said if you mack the monitor the colors will return? You may want to check the pots on the monitor specific to the 3 colors (and the bias and drive of each color). Try tapping each one to see if they may be bad. Make sure you watch out for high voltage. I had recapped my montior on a machine, and still would have an intermittent brightness problems. Turns out it was just a bad brightness pot- so the same could go for the color too.

I'd still recap it though.

I don't have a MAME set-up yet, so I'm not that knowledgeable about the connections you need. As far as connecting it via Arcade VGA, it seems like you'd have to determine what model monitor you have. Here's a quote from the Arcade VGA web page- which you may already have read.

Connecting an arcade monitor:
If you are using a J-PAC :
Simply plug the J-PAC VGA cable into the connector on the card. The J-PAC has a built-in video amplifier for monitors that need a higher signal.
If you are using an arcade monitor with our Video Amp:
Some monitors (not Wells-Gardner) need a 5 volt video RGB signal and the ArcadeVGA card supplies 1 volt. To boost the signal level you can use our Video Amplifier. This comes with a VGA cable.
Connect the RGB, Sync, GND screw connectors to the monitor inputs.
The video amp needs no separate power source as it takes power from theArcadeVGA card.
Full information on the video amp can be found here:
Direct Connection:
If not using a J-PAC or video amp, many monitors (including all Wells-Gardner) can accept a 1 volt signal level that the ArcadeVGA card supplies. So with these monitors you can make you own cable (See here for details.) or use our pre-made VGA connection cable. This cable has a connector for Wells-Gardner arcade monitors and also can be used as the base for a custom cable for other monitors as it has labelled ends.Note we are unable to supply fully assembled cables for monitors other than Wells-Gardner as there is no established standard connector or pinout for arcade monitors in a non-JAMMA setup, so we would not know what connections your monitor has. If your monitor has a single sync input (composite sync) you can connect the H-Sync and V-Sync wires together. The ArcadeVGA card always sends negative H and V sync in all video modes, so this method works fine. The connections on the VGA breakout cable are marked as follows:
R, G, B = colours
H = horizontal sync. H and V sync can normally be connected togetherfor most monitors to produce composite sync.
V = vertical sync
- = ground

As far as the button situation goes, I'd like to say use the Jpac instead because it's really easy to use, but it sounds like you're going to be using more buttons than it allows. So maybe the iPac and the Arcade VGA is your best bet? I don't know maybe someone will chime in with a real answer.

[channelmaniac]

Sounds like bad solder joints on the monitor. It's common for the input pins to have cracked solder joints.

When you recap the monitor look around for cracked solder joints and repair any you find.

Here's a typical looking cracked solder joint:

[XYXZYZ]

See if you can snap a picture of any writing on the monitor board, someone either here or at KLOV is bound to identify it.

As for your MAME situation, I'm pretty sure Golden Axe used a proprietary Sega System 16 harness. There are adapters to play System 16 boards through a JAMMA harness, but I don't think there are any vice-versa adapters.

The best MAME PC interface is a JPAC and ArcadeVGA; The AVGA's 15kHz output plus the JPAC's video amplifier will guarantee a hassle free setup. The JPAC supports JAMMA standard 3 buttons per player, plus 10 extra buttons via screw-down connectors.

But in order to install the JPAC you'll have to rewire the cabinet with a JAMMA harness, unless you want to make an adapter yourself.

[porkins]

See if you can snap a picture of any writing on the monitor board, someone either here or at KLOV is bound to identify it.

As for your MAME situation, I'm pretty sure Golden Axe used a proprietary Sega System 16 harness. There are adapters to play System 16 boards through a JAMMA harness, but I don't think there are any vice-versa adapters.

The best MAME PC interface is a JPAC and ArcadeVGA; The AVGA's 15kHz output plus the JPAC's video amplifier will guarantee a hassle free setup. The JPAC supports JAMMA standard 3 buttons per player, plus 10 extra buttons via screw-down connectors.

But in order to install the JPAC you'll have to rewire the cabinet with a JAMMA harness, unless you want to make an adapter yourself.

So I want to be able to convert the cabinet back at anytime. And are there NO JAMMA to Sega System 16 harness adapters? I've seen Sega System 16 PCB to JAMMA harness adapters...

If these do not exist, then I could always rewire the entire thing with a JAMMA harness. That might be good to do anyway. For the experience, and to clean up any loose connections. Then I could buy a Sega16 to JAMMA harness adapter and be able to plug the original Golden Axe PCB back in easily, correct? Then I would be able to use the JPAC, and that would also simplify things. I guess if I tried to do it any other way, I would have to disconnect most of the wires from the existing Sega16 harness, and that would make it harder to put back together, or to be able to plug in other, original PCBs.

Do I need the ArcadeVGA card with the JPac? Their website seems to say that the JPAC will automatically alter the refresh rates and such. It doesn't say anything about using it in conjunction with the ArcadeVGA.

I want to have 2 joysticks (maybe the 4-way/8-way Mag-Stik), 1 and 2 player selection buttons, 6 buttons per person (12), and eventually a spinner (or trackball if I can fit it....but this can come later). Can the JPAC support all this? I'm ok if the spinner/trackball need a seperate interface.

[tomwaits]

Just a suggestion, but I'd take a little time to fix the sound and monitor issues before worrying about the MAME conversion. If you don't have the cab's basics working properly, any cab issues could complicate or confuse problems during the conversion. Then, I'd covert to a JAMMA harness with a Sega System 16 adapter. Then, get your MAME setup installed with the current control panel before worrying about more advanced control panel layouts.

Lots of sub-projects to get the cab the way you want it... I'd tackle them one at a time.

[porkins]

Just a suggestion, but I'd take a little time to fix the sound and monitor issues before worrying about the MAME conversion. If you don't have the cab's basics working properly, any cab issues could complicate or confuse problems during the conversion. Then, I'd covert to a JAMMA harness with a Sega System 16 adapter. Then, get your MAME setup installed with the current control panel before worrying about more advanced control panel layouts.

Lots of sub-projects to get the cab the way you want it... I'd tackle them one at a time.

That's what I plan on doing. The second player controls are pretty bad, so replacing all controls is high on my list. I think I will proceed this way:

1) Clean machine. Replace plexiglass. Replace rusted bolts with shiny new chrome bolts. Replace locks so I have a key. Touch-up paint. Fix sound pot. Fix coin slot bulbs and wiring.

2) Replace joysticks and buttons. Add new buttons.

3) Fix monitor issues and/or cap kit.

4) Rewire with JAMMA harness. Add Sega-16 to Jamma converter.

5) Build MAME PC and install.

[XYXZYZ]

Yeah, replacing the S16 harness with a JAMMA harness will give you maximum compatibility.

And the JPAC will not do any frequency conversion, it just amplifies the signal. If you don't use AVGA you'll need some other way to adjust the horizontal frequency to 15kHz. There's a shareware thing called Powerstrip that will do it, and Sailorsat on the BYOAC forums developed a free program called Soft15kHz that will do it. But the problem with using other video cards is that they don't support all the wonky arcade resolutions that AVGA does, so you get stretching and stuff that make the picture look like shit. I had a Matrox G400 + Soft15kHz and while it worked, after using AVGA and seeing the perfect picture the games have in their native resolutions, I just can't go back.

Also, can anyone identify what game that was before it was converted to Golden Axe?

[porkins]

Yeah, replacing the S16 harness with a JAMMA harness will give you maximum compatibility.

And the JPAC will not do any frequency conversion, it just amplifies the signal. If you don't use AVGA you'll need some other way to adjust the horizontal frequency to 15kHz. There's a shareware thing called Powerstrip that will do it, and Sailorsat on the BYOAC forums developed a free program called Soft15kHz that will do it. But the problem with using other video cards is that they don't support all the wonky arcade resolutions that AVGA does, so you get stretching and stuff that make the picture look like shit. I had a Matrox G400 + Soft15kHz and while it worked, after using AVGA and seeing the perfect picture the games have in their native resolutions, I just can't go back.

Also, can anyone identify what game that was before it was converted to Golden Axe?

Golden Axe Flikr Pics

I uploaded new pics from inside the cab and added comments to all of the pics in the set to provide some extra information. I added new pics of the monitor board. I couldn't see any good labels on it telling me what it is except right in the center it says "P447". Looks standard enough. Also got better pictures of the wiring harness. I believe it just might be a JAMMA cab already with a Sega System 16 to JAMMA converter. Check out the pictures! I'm dying to know exactly what this is. I'm also wondering what game the golf instructions came from. Another interesting note; the "Seilial Number" sticker on the back of the cab is the same as the serial number on the Golden Axe PCB. If these were conversion kits, it seems odd that the owner would apply these stickers to the back, and that no other stickers from the original game were affixed.

When I was thinking about all this yesterday, a fear popped into my head. Playing all the classic vertically oriented games on this monitor will probably suck! They will all be shrunk down to fit. Anyone play like this? Does it stink playing like that? Anyone find a good solution? Maybe a monitor that can spin? That would take some engineering. Need to put that down for a future project....

[XYXZYZ]

Sure looks like a JAMMA harness with an adapter to me. In the "bottom of converter" picture you can see the key at pin 7. (Pull the adapter out of the harness connector, you should see a notch cut out where oin 7 should be.

As far as playing scaled vertical games, I usually prefer a vertical monitor. On the other hand you can use MAME's bezel feature to add a little bit of the charm of the original machines, but my advice is to wait until you get the inevitable urge for another machine, then get one with a vertical monitor. That's what I did.

And by the way, if your MAME PC will have an AGP slot (the newer ones) the AGP ArcadeVGA cards are half price now, and when this stock is gone that's the end of them.

[porkins]

Ok. Update time, and new problem.

I bought an ArcadeVGA card (AGP) and a J-Pac from Ultimarc. The ArcadeVGA card works fine with my LCD monitor on the DVI output. I have the resolution set to 640x480. When I hook it all together to my cab, I get a picture that is obviously my desktop, but the monitor has a high-pitched whine, and the picture is rolling vertically pretty fast. PS/2 cable is plugged in firmly, and Ig et 2 steady lights on the JPac.

So how do I resolve this? Adjust the vertical hold? What is the optimum resolution to use in Windows?

I am trying to run a Mame cab on this monitor. Will this monitor work ok? I am just wondering that if I have to adjust the monitor settings to get Windows to show up ok, when I attempt to run Golden Axe in native resolution, will it look different? I want to run all games in their native resolutions where possible, but I am wondering if the monitor then needs to be adjusted everytime I fire up a different game. Like if I run Golden Axe and adjust it to look good, and then run Pac-Man, will it be screwed up and I have to make adjustments to the monitor again?

Thanks for any and all advice!

[XYXZYZ]

You're talking about an arcade monitor, right? I have had AVGA and arcade boards use different vertical frequencies, try adjusting the Vhold on the monitor. If it works you shouldn't have to do any more adjusting (unless you want to run another arcade board) and MAME will store the individual game settings. And MAME sometimes doesn't pick the right resolution, if you select a game and the picture starts rolling and gets all wonky, exit and use a MAME UI to see the game's properties, get the native resolution and manually pick the closest setting.

And I assume you have the latest driver installed, etc.?

[Blur2040]

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[Ed Oscuro]

It sounds like you don't have your comptuer set to display at 15khz. The arcade VGA should be able to do that, as, if I reacall, that's the whole point of it.

Bingo. My understanding is that some cards (ATi) can actually do 15KHz with only a bit of fiddling, but...better to do the arcadeVGA, this old review explains why.

I would start by trying lower resolutions through the arcadeVGA first, like 320x240 @ 30, and work up from there. It's probably something too high, which sounds like a probable cause for rolling to me (it's trying to put far too many lines of resolution onscreen at once = monitor can't, so rolling and whine as it struggles to keep up)

I would also like to point out this project:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28069

Looks pretty interesting, and should suit some needs better than the arcadeVGA

Also, lol, I wish I had the problem of needing to go from Sega System 16 to JAMMA. I have System 8 AND System 16 boards I need adapters for...if I had a System 16 wired cabinet I wouldn't gut the adapter out, but you gotta break eggs sometimes I guess. I need to be more careful and stop reading things backwards (was about to say that your PC monitor only outputs to 31KHz, or that JAMMA to System 16 adapters are made...another readthrough prevented my needing to make more embarrassing edits).