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Thread: What would have happened if they had ported SF Alpha 2 to Genesis?

  1. #21
    Kirby (Level 13) j_factor's Avatar
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    Sega CD would have been worse than Genesis, because it doesn't have enough RAM. CD 32x is not a real option.

    Coprocessor chips weren't really supported on Genesis, so Capcom probably would've had to try to squeeze it on one massive cartridge. Which is probably why they didn't do it. The sound and colors would have suffered too, but other than that it would've been okay.

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    What about that SVP chip SEGA had for Virtua Racing? I know it was mainly for processing polygons, but maybe they could've fanangled it to push sprites/sound?

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    Kirby (Level 13) j_factor's Avatar
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    The SVP reduced the colors to 16. In theory, a similar type of processor could be used for sprites, but there's no need for it. If I'm not mistaken, the SDD1 chip only handles data decompression, it doesn't actually aid the CPU in the game. So the Genesis CPU definitely would've been up to the task. The real problem is ROM.

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    Cherry (Level 1) Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Wow, I'm surprised by the negative opinion of the Genesis around here. People seem to champion the strengths of the SNES while only focusing on the weaknesses of the Genesis. There's no point talking about how practical a Genesis port of SFA2 would've been, the reason it wasn't released was because it wasn't worthwhile at the time.

    As far as how well the Genesis could handle a port, it could be pretty damn good on cart. The Sega-CD is out of the question because of the limited ram. The amount of animation in a cart port would only be limited to the amount of storage given, whether it be straight memory, compression or whatever. If many factors at the time were different and an otherwise practical port was put out, I think that it would've been fine to have cut a bunch of characters and maybe a few more stages in order to keep the animation decent. Didn't Alpha 1 have less stages than characters?

    Basically the Genesis can do almost any 2D fighter, only extreme things like full screen zooming or screen filling sprites would need to be cut. A benefit that a Genesis port would have over the SNES port is it could be pixel for pixel in the 320 wide mode. The perspective would still be off compared to the arcade, but it was the same for lots of 16-bit home ports.

    On-screen color wouldn't be an issue the same way it was in the SFII ports. The Alpha/Zero sprites aren't shaded like the SFII series sprites. They're two-toned with colored lining. The drabber backgrounds are also Genesis-friendly and wouldn't look as out of place with repeated color.


    I think that this example is on the conservative side of what could be done-




    The only 16-bit console port that wouldn't have been much of a stretch had Capcom allowed it to happen would've been for PC Engine Arcade Card CD.
    Last edited by Black_Tiger; 04-04-2010 at 05:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    It does feel rushed though. A few more weeks to improve the dead time when the SDD1 is decompresing the audio data just before the round starts and maybe incorporating the SA1 chip would have made a hell of a port.
    I would say yeah, it didn't have to have that bad of wait times given more optimization, and I would further suggest that perhaps if they had 48 megabits, they could have gotten it down to something unnoticeable or almost so, SA-1 or no.

    Which raises the interesting question: could a skilled enough hacker doing basically what neviksti did for Star Ocean along with some optimizations bring to life a hack that at least runs smoothly on a Powerpak? The world will probably never know...

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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    In fact I think that, judging by the beta screenshots, SFA2 wasn't supposed to be what it turned out to:



    Notice how big the sprites are in the beta. I think that it was until later in the development cycle that Capcom noticed that they wouldn't get by with 32Mb (or 48Mb for that matter) and went with the S-DD1.


    As for the Genesis port, well, I don't know. I'm not really familiarized with Sega's 16bit hardware so I don't know if it could pull it of. ROM size would be the main issue although a Sega CD version sounds interesting. It would have been faster, that's for sure. Still, I don't think that Capcom would have made a port even if they could. The Megadrive was actually dead when SFA2 was released but the SFC still had games coming out (the last SFC game was released in 2000).
    Last edited by izarate; 04-04-2010 at 10:47 PM.

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    Well, I think that at the time Sega was advertising the Saturn as an "Arcade at Home".
    Also, the Saturn got a perfect port. So why bother with the Mega Drive if even Sega didn't...

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    Strawberry (Level 2) emceelokey's Avatar
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    I wonder why they decided to port Alpha 2 in the first place. Alpha 1 didn't come out on SNES or Genesis and that game came out at least a year before Alpha 2, which would have meant that the installed base for the 32 bit systems would have been much less and a cart port of Alpha 1 would have been more successful at that time. I'd imagine that Alpha 1 could have been a really good port to the SNES considering how good Alpha 2 turned out.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) tomaitheous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    As for the Genesis port, well, I don't know. I'm not really familiarized with Sega's 16bit hardware so I don't know if it could pull it of. ROM size would be the main issue although a Sega CD version sounds interesting. It would have been faster, that's for sure. Still, I don't think that Capcom would have made a port even if they could. The Megadrive was actually dead when SFA2 was released but the SFC still had games coming out (the last SFC game was released in 2000).
    As J-factor already pointed out, the SegaCD isn't going to have enough ram to hold both characters animations... without cutting quite a bit out. Same goes for a SegaCD+32x version. A 32x cart would be fine though.

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    Kirby (Level 13) j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emceelokey View Post
    I wonder why they decided to port Alpha 2 in the first place. Alpha 1 didn't come out on SNES or Genesis and that game came out at least a year before Alpha 2, which would have meant that the installed base for the 32 bit systems would have been much less and a cart port of Alpha 1 would have been more successful at that time. I'd imagine that Alpha 1 could have been a really good port to the SNES considering how good Alpha 2 turned out.
    I've always wondered about that too. Especially since Alpha 1 was smaller, and thus would've been easier to port. I think there was a 32x version in development, but that doesn't count.

    Apparently Alpha 1 was ported to the CPS Changer, a home version of their CPS1 hardware (Alpha being a CPS2 game). That makes the lack of a Genesis or SNES port all the more puzzling.

    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    Still, I don't think that Capcom would have made a port even if they could. The Megadrive was actually dead when SFA2 was released but the SFC still had games coming out (the last SFC game was released in 2000).
    It was still alive in the west. It's not exactly outlandish to suggest a port for markets outside Japan. I mean, considering North America and Europe got their own special 16-bit "port" of Virtua Fighter 2 in 1996, it's not such a stretch to suggest a Genesis version of Street Fighter Alpha 2 around the same time. (The last Genesis game was released in 1998 )
    Last edited by j_factor; 04-05-2010 at 03:09 PM.

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    Peach (Level 3) izarate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    It was still alive in the west. It's not exactly outlandish to suggest a port for markets outside Japan. I mean, considering North America and Europe got their own special 16-bit "port" of Virtua Fighter 2 in 1996, it's not such a stretch to suggest a Genesis version of Street Fighter Alpha 2 around the same time. (The last Genesis game was released in 1998 )

    Maybe sales figures went into consideration? How well did the SF franchise sell on the Genesis? Anyway, Virtua Fighter 2 is a special case since it's a first party title and it's in the best interest of Sega to take advantage of the Genesis installed base, just like Nintendo when they decided to buy the distribution rights to release SFA2 in America and Europe.

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    Kirby (Level 13) j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izarate View Post
    Maybe sales figures went into consideration? How well did the SF franchise sell on the Genesis?
    Not as good as SNES, but pretty damn good. It looks like Street Fighter II Turbo on SNES sold 4.1 million worldwide, 2.1 million of which were in Japan. Special Champion Edition sold 1.65 million worldwide, with I assume a negligible amount in Japan. So for North America and Europe it's approximately 2 million SNES versus 1.5 million Genesis/MD. Of course, these figures are way higher than Alpha 2 SNES or the hypothetical Alpha 2 Genesis. But a fighting game port doesn't have to sell that many units to be worthwhile.

    This comparison is kind of irrelevant, though, when you consider Street Fighter releases for 3DO, CD32, SMS, FM Towns, ZX Spectrum, etc. I guess you could say that the lack of even a Genesis port of Alpha or Alpha 2 is representative of a sharp change in Capcom's policy on porting.
    Last edited by j_factor; 04-05-2010 at 03:02 PM.

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    I think the simplified shading on the characters in the Alpha games would actually translate pretty well to the Genesis. The backgrounds would have to lose a lot of subtle detail due to the limited palette, of course, but that would have the benefit of making the game smaller in size.
    Voices could be cut completely, for all I care.
    As far as the gameplay and animation go, SFA2 wasn't doing a whole lot more than SSF2, and that port turned out mostly fine. SFA2 actually has about the same amount of animation per character as SF2 because it lacks close and far attacks but adds in some other details, like taunts and rolls. The overall animation quality is the same.
    The super move and CC effects are nothing the Genesis can't handle, that's for sure.

    The SNES port was actually pretty bad compared to SSF2, probably because it wasn't nearly as high a priority for Capcom as the SF2 ports were. By then, all of Capcom's best people would have been making Saturn and PS1 games. There was also some form of encryption that went along with the compression technology that was used, and it really bogged down performance. SFA2 is only marginally more complex than Super Street Fighter 2, and yet it runs at a fraction of the speed. It's remarkably complete port, just not a very good one.

  14. #34
    Shmup Hooligan Custom rank graphic
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    The maximum rom size the Genesis could address without bankswitching is 32mb/4MB correct? So, with bankswitching (like SSF2) would that new rom maximum be 64mb/8MB? If so... Reduce the size of the sprites, chop a frame or two of animation, remove some character speech, fiddle with the palette, maximize sprite and background look to match that, perhaps apply compression (likened to SNES Alpha2) and it just might have been possible. How much would such a cart, produced then, need to cost? It's basically two max sized carts worth of ram in one with two extra/upgrade hardware features (assuming a third rom bank is not needed, or even possible)... That's where the big rub comes in and makes a theoretical possibility an unpractical reality.
    Last edited by Icarus Moonsight; 04-06-2010 at 04:47 AM.


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    Key (Level 9) chrisbid's Avatar
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    while a technical achievment, sf2a on the snes isnt a very good game. nintendo was simply squeezing a few more drops on to the snes as it was fading from the us market by releasing a super famicom game from an established franchise that required little localizing.

    the genesis was further down the road of obsolescence after 95 in japan and the us than the snes, so any games released for the systems wouldve been given meager budgets. sfa2 on the genesis with a meager budget woudlve been complete garbage

    but had a sfa2 genesis project been given the same resources as ssfii, i suspect a nuetered but far more playable port than the snes wouldve been possible.

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