Is an Atari Jaguar system worth keeping?

[WCP]

however, Cybermorph's problems today isn't with the graphics themselves but the draw distance of those graphics.

Yeah, I can't argue the draw distance. The draw distance is horrible. It wasn't so bad in November 1993, cause it was so brand new, and doing something that had never been done before, but playing it now, the draw distance just seems totally unacceptable.


Having said all of that.... You can still make the game fun by flying lower to the ground. The more you decrease your altitude and speed, the better the draw distance gets. Playing a 3D "go anywhere" game that's almost 17 years old, you kinda have to accommodate your play style to help with the draw distance issue. Just stay pretty low to the planets surface, don't go super, super fast, and everything is very playable.. imo.

[eatenbygrues]

Yeah, I'll third that. I'll definitely take the 32x over the Jaguar any day really.

I think the four Yu Suzuki games on the 32X (Afterburner, Space Harrier, Virtua Fighter, and Virtua Racing) probably put the 32x's library above the Jag's on their quality alone.

The Jag does have the superior port of doom, but that really isn't saying a whole lot. :P

32x vs Jaguar is such a sad little console war. It's like the cripple fight on south park.

[Leo_A]

Whatever technical merits Cybermorph has, it doesn't matter when the game itself wasn't fun in 1993 and isn't fun in 2010.

It's only worth picking up for curousities sake due to it's cheap price from being a pack in game and being the most common Jaguar title as a result. It's the only reason it's even in my collection list, it came with the system.

I've had more fun with the Jaguar library then the 32X library. I pretty much own everything I want for both. And not only do I have more Jaguar titles, it has several more AAA titles like Tempest 2000 then the 32X has.

Beyond Virtua Racing Deluxe and AfterBurner, I wouldn't even place one of my 32X games as beyond a B or so in score (Don't like Space Harrier or Virtua Fighting so they're not in my collection). And I wouldn't even rate any of my Jaguar collection I've listed earlier in this thread below that score (Besides Cybermorph).

[retro junkie]

Well, I stand by my take. I think only Dave Halverson and myself seem to like the game, but oh well, that's how I feel. Still, I think most of the Cybermorph hate is the fact that everybody was expecting it to be a 64-bit version of Starfox. It's nothing like Starfox, and thus tons of people thought it was utter shite. They started playing the game, hated the combat, hated the green bald chick, and that was that. For those that really hate the game, I wonder how much time they actually spent playing it? I'm guessing no more than a half hour. Cybermorph is one of those "slow burn" games. It takes a bit of time to grow on you. If you complete the first set of 9 planets, and you still think it's total shite, then I have no problem with your opinion, but I think most of the haters probably played it for 15 minutes, thought it was a total piece of crap, and never touched it again.

I think Cybermorph was a very good game for the time period. There really wasn't anything like it in its day, that I can remember. A simple go anywhere little shooter. Very Basic gameplay. Not anything to show off 64-bits of power. I have had a lot of fun out of it. I really don't think that time has been good to it. Only those from that time period would understand what I am talking about, when I say it was something special at that point in time. And I agree that it is something that you would have to get into to enjoy. I still enjoy playing it.

So including me, I guess it is four people that like it so far?

[goatdan]

Whatever technical merits Cybermorph has, it doesn't matter when the game itself wasn't fun in 1993 and isn't fun in 2010.

Out of curiosity, did you actually play the game in 1993 when it came out? It was pretty mind-blowing back then, and I think it was really a LOT of fun. It was just eclipsed rather quickly by other stuff.

To put it into context, what early 3D games excluding the Virtua series does anyone still play regularly? 3D has not aged nearly as well as 2D games have, and it is much rarer to find 3D games that people really have nostalgia for.

[j_factor]

Beyond Virtua Racing Deluxe and AfterBurner, I wouldn't even place one of my 32X games as beyond a B or so in score (Don't like Space Harrier or Virtua Fighting so they're not in my collection).

Not even BlackThorne or Shadow Squadron?

Out of curiosity, did you actually play the game in 1993 when it came out? It was pretty mind-blowing back then, and I think it was really a LOT of fun. It was just eclipsed rather quickly by other stuff.

To put it into context, what early 3D games excluding the Virtua series does anyone still play regularly? 3D has not aged nearly as well as 2D games have, and it is much rarer to find 3D games that people really have nostalgia for.

To be fair, there aren't that many 3D games from 1993. But I think a lot of people still like the original Star Fox. I also still think Ultima Underworld is a great game. And Star Wars Arcade (the arcade version was 1993).

[Leo_A]

Out of curiosity, did you actually play the game in 1993 when it came out? It was pretty mind-blowing back then, and I think it was really a LOT of fun. It was just eclipsed rather quickly by other stuff.

To put it into context, what early 3D games excluding the Virtua series does anyone still play regularly? 3D has not aged nearly as well as 2D games have, and it is much rarer to find 3D games that people really have nostalgia for.

Nope, I've only played it in the past ten years. But I have a fondness for early 3d. Heck, I still regularly play and enjoy things like F-22 Interceptor on the Genesis, games most people wouldn't be able to stand today. So I think I'd still be able to appreciate it if it was a decent game. This thread certainly has me wanting to give it a second go though to see if there was something I missed the first time around. I've only played it perhaps 3 hours in total and wasn't enjoying myself at all.

Not even BlackThorne or Shadow Squadron?

Never played BlackThorne, never really paid any attention to it. Is it worth seeking out to give it a try?

I love Shadow Squadron and it's certainly right near the top as far as my opinion of 32X titles go and is a major reason I keep a 32X around. But I'd still hesitate to consider it as A material and it's certainly not a A+ title like Tempest 2000.

[Emperor Megas]

I think Cybermorph was a very good game for the time period. There really wasn't anything like it in its day, that I can remember.

Did you ever play Stellar-Fire for SEGA CD, or Stellar 7: Draxton's Revenge for 3DO? I didn't play them much, but I remember them being a lot like Cybermorph.

Whatever technical merits Cybermorph has, it doesn't matter when the game itself wasn't fun in 1993 and isn't fun in 2010.

Yeah, that's pretty much my take as well.

Beyond Virtua Racing Deluxe and AfterBurner, I wouldn't even place one of my 32X games as beyond a B or so in score (Don't like Space Harrier or Virtua Fighting so they're not in my collection).

Space Harrier could probably be all time favorite game; definitely in my top 5 anyway. I bought the 32X just for an arcade quality port.

Out of curiosity, did you actually play the game in 1993 when it came out? It was pretty mind-blowing back then, and I think it was really a LOT of fun. It was just eclipsed rather quickly by other stuff.

I played it in 95, I think, and it didn't blow my mind at all, except or how chronically unfun I thought it was, but it's just not my sort of game.

To put it into context, what early 3D games excluding the Virtua series does anyone still play regularly? 3D has not aged nearly as well as 2D games have, and it is much rarer to find 3D games that people really have nostalgia for.

That's because a lot of them were garbage, like Cybermorph.

[Ze_ro]

Whatever technical merits Cybermorph has, it doesn't matter when the game itself wasn't fun in 1993 and isn't fun in 2010.

I had lots of fun with it back in 1993, and played it all the way through in one sitting on many occasions. I still think it's a good game, though Battlemorph completely eclipses it.

--Zero

[tom]

I think that Cybermorph is really a forerunner for a lot of the open world titles that exist today, it's just the gameplay has been done better by nearly everything else that came since. But, at the time, there wasn't *anything* like Cybermorph ever seen before, so at the least it is a notable title.

Hunter (1991 Activision)
http://www.mobygames.com/game/hunter/screenshots

Alone in the Dark (1992)

The Eidolon (1985)

[goatdan]

Hunter (1991 Activision)
http://www.mobygames.com/game/hunter/screenshots

Alone in the Dark (1992)

The Eidolon (1985)

None of those were go-anywhere games like Cybermorph, and with the exception of Alone in the Dark which came out for the 3DO in 1994, none of them were on a console. That's what I think it was groundbreaking for -- I can come up with more than a dozen other 3D titles before it, but none that allowed go anywhere gameplay like Cybermorph did.

[T2KFreeker]

None of those were go-anywhere games like Cybermorph, and with the exception of Alone in the Dark which came out for the 3DO in 1994, none of them were on a console. That's what I think it was groundbreaking for -- I can come up with more than a dozen other 3D titles before it, but none that allowed go anywhere gameplay like Cybermorph did.

Are we all getting into the Cybermorph debate again? :lol: Goatdan is right on the money. Cybermorph allows you to go anywhere you want to go, making it extremely unique for it's time. Also, the further you get into the game, the better the graphics get all. The level designs also get quite insane. The game really is a gem as most people just see the screen shots or hear someone blabbing about how bad it is and they never touch it and agree with everyone about how bad it is. Kind of like the Jaguar controller also.

[tom]

I can go anywhere in Hunter

more:
Mercenary (1985)
Rescue on Fractalus (1984, Atari 5200, if you're hung up about 'consoles only')

Don't get me wrong, I love Cybermorph, and Battlemorph, played them to death way back, just showing Cybermorph was not the first '3D go-anywhere' by a long shot

[T2KFreeker]

Did you ever play Stellar-Fire for SEGA CD, or Stellar 7: Draxton's Revenge for 3DO? I didn't play them much, but I remember them being a lot like Cybermorph.

Actually, the games may seem similar to you, but they really are not. Way more terrain in Cybermorph as most of the levels are flat in those two games. Plus factor in that the enemies aren't cheap at all in Cybermorph and that adds something more to the game as well. To be fair also, Cybermorph also did use Goraud shading on some items on the screen as well as the backgrounds, giving it a much more fleshed out look. Like I said, you need to get further along in the game.

[goatdan]

I can go anywhere in Hunter

more:
Mercenary (1985)
Rescue on Fractalus (1984, Atari 5200, if you're hung up about 'consoles only')

Don't get me wrong, I love Cybermorph, and Battlemorph, played them to death way back, just showing Cybermorph was not the first '3D go-anywhere' by a long shot

Rescue on Fractalus wasn't 3D polygonal. I'm saying that Cybermorph is notable because:

Cybermorph is the first console game that was 3D polygonal and allowed the player to go anywhere in the world when they wanted to, and the player could essentially get the goals in each level in the order they wanted to.

StarFox is on rails. Rescue on Fractalus was 2D. BattleWheels was 2D. BallBlazer was contained to a small location. Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter were released after it.

I'm not arguing that it stands up today as a good game, because it doesn't. But at the time that it came out, it really was a pretty mind-blowing concept. The only game that I can think of that may be similar in nature to it was Steel Talons on the Lynx, although I have never figured out the control to actually know if it is go-anywhere or not. It was unique for the time.

[tom]

Does polygonal need to be a priority for 3D? I don't think so.
RoF is fully fractal 3D (I've flown around the mountain), and Mercenary is full vector 3D (in Mercenary you can even fly around the whole planet (in any direction), fly up limitless or until you reach the sky city, walk into buildings, walk around buildings, etc..), both count, imho.

[le geek]

The game that blew me away in this manner was Starglider II

1) granted on an Amiga and
2) I could never exactly figure out what i was supposed to do...

I do think that Cybermorph was pretty neat when it came out...

[kevinski]

You'll also need some kind of video cable. The S-Video cable is pretty crazy expensive, and it's kinda hard to even find the composite one.

If you're going with the official cables, then yes, they're very expensive. Thing is, you can get unofficial cables that're of much higher quality here:

http://morethangames.a8maestro.com/p.../advert-g4.htm

The official Atari-branded ones feel (and are) very cheap in comparison.

Anyway, I, personally, consider Jaguar to be an excellent console. Sure, the build quality is somewhat questionable, as the plastic on the console feels flimsy (and they couldn't take the time to make the connectors on the back of the console not look completely horrible). Still, you'll find some excellent conversions of certain games on Jaguar, as well as some nice exclusives.

[goatdan]

Does polygonal need to be a priority for 3D? I don't think so.
RoF is fully fractal 3D (I've flown around the mountain), and Mercenary is full vector 3D (in Mercenary you can even fly around the whole planet (in any direction), fly up limitless or until you reach the sky city, walk into buildings, walk around buildings, etc..), both count, imho.

If polygonal isn't a priority, then there is an argument for Night Driver, as it was a first person "3D" type thing too. RoF unless I'm mistaken used 2D sprites for the enemies, and created the environment in a rudimentary that really never became a major force in game design. Cybermorph used polygons, which are the same thing that is used on consoles today for displaying things.

I'd agree with Mercenary if it was on consoles. It isn't. Computers have traditionally always had the power differential to do more advanced things, but console games have generally greatly outsold computer games.

My only point is that Cybermorph really was a milestone for a console title. Again, I'm not arguing that it was the first -- I was personally playing Space Station Oblivion on the PC about five years before it -- but it was a console milestone. But, since it was a 3D one, it is a pretty forgettable one.

[Emperor Megas]

So again, wasn't Stellar-Fire a lot like Cybermorph (free roaming polygonal)? I'm pretty sure that they came out around the same time.