There already is one. Ephemeral Fantasia.Originally Posted by ScourDX
DDR Mat.
I like to see role playing game based on Guitar hero or Rockband accessories.
There already is one. Ephemeral Fantasia.DDR Mat.
I like to see role playing game based on Guitar hero or Rockband accessories.
Too bad the game blows.
^ That. I can't believe I read the first post, started scrolling down, barely reading anything, waiting to post EXACTLY THOSE THOUGHTS. Thanks, Maxlords!
And, actually, I think most action games nowadays are more "play a role" than many RPGs, in that you actually do get to choose your character, in many you change the looks entirely by choosing from preset hair, eyes, mouths, etc etc. How many games have a "create a character" feature. I mean, really, that would make most wrestling games RPGs.
I think Bioware sucks, frankly, if you want another controversial opinion. I don't think they've released a single RPG, either. Games like Mass Effect or whatever are actually FPS games, not RPGs. Dumbass is just trying to justify releasing shitty FPS games over and over by calling them RPGs and making a big deal about it. And oh yeah GET BACK ON THE DAMN PC WHERE YOUR SHITTY GAMES BELONG!
Sorry, had to rant.
I'm with these guys. If Bioware has become the arbiter of what defines an RPG, then we're all fucked. Baldur's Gate is an exceptional twitch game, though.
Seriously, there's no real hard and fast rule as to what constitutes an RPG. Western RPGs are usually FPS with the ability to "level up", while many Japanese RPGs are little more than interactive cartoon adventure games. Remember those FMV games like Dragon's Lair and Space Ace where you had to click the correct button to proceed after watching a 30 second animated cutscene? That's pretty much the Final Fantasy series to me. (But wait- many purists don't consider FF to be RPGs either...)
Since I first played The Legend of Zelda back in 1988, everything I read concerning the games up until 1993 or so referred to them as the "quintessential" RPG series. But with the advent of internet trolling by nerds with superiority complexes, all of the sudden LoZ was no longer an RPG, it was, at best, an "adventure" game; at worst, a "platformer".
I'm one of the unconverted errant souls who still considers the Zelda games to be RPGs while Bioshock 2 is always going to be a FPS. Bioware's games are neither; they fall into the much broader category of shitty PC games masquerading on consoles.
I think a lot of this comes down to how you technically define what a RPG is. It's a debate I've seen, and been in more than a few times myself.
For me a RPG is a game that disconnects the player's abilities from those of the character on the screen. A player's skill should have little, to no effect on the success their in game avatar has when performing an action. This is why stats, skills, etc are all pretty much the common thing you see in all RPGs.
Any action that takes a degree of skill to perform should come down to the in-game character's abilities. Opening a door is something anyone can do. Repairing an engine, properly repairing a firearm, or even balancing on a thin beam are things that go above and beyond the skill of a normal person. These are things that are tested in an RPG by the use of numbers.
That's where the separation between "W-RPG" and "J-RPG" start to come into play. In a Western RPG the player basically is given reigns over designing the character they want to play. Their avatar will be skilled in whatever it is the player decides to to make him/her. This makes the avatar a more personal thing to the player; since it's their own.
Most Japanese RPGs put everything in front of the player. The characters are made, and the player simply guides their journey. However; most of what the characters can do is out of the player's hands. Damage, defense, etc are usually handled by numbers and equipment.
When player skill becomes involved...things start to lean more towards the Action RPG realm.
This is all my opinion though.
I don't know about an RPG, but what about a text adventure?
I've more commonly heard those called Visual Novels.
Okay, so Interactive Adventure Novel is taken as j_factor pointed out, albeit by something rather obscure (I'm the number one source for the term right now if you Google it). But I still think that JRPGs feel like novels. They are long form stories in the video game medium that have time to focus on character development and complex plots. And they almost always focus on adventures or quests. Maybe Interactive Computer Quest Novel / Interactive Video Quest Novel? Video Quest Adventure? Graphical Adventure Novel? Video Adventure Novel? Tactical Computer Adventure Novel? I'll keep thinking about it and submit my findings to Japan.
Also, good point about the fact that constrictions are often inherent in the character you choose to play. The difference between LARPing George Washington and playing Shenmue, though, is that when LARPing you get to make the decisions yourself based on what you know about George Washington. In Shenmue those decisions are made for you by Ryo's AI. That just feels constrictive, and maybe I do think Ryo would ignore his aunt and stay out late at night if he really needs to find some sailors. The game doesn't let me decide. And of course becoming an existing person or fictional figure and trying to act as them isn't the only type of roleplaying, creating a character from scratch and trying to act how you've decided that character will act is probably more common.
I guess that's more accurate, I just keep remembering Hotel Dusk's website where it's described as an "Interactive mystery novel".
http://www.hoteldusk.com/
I don't feel that JRPGs are any type of adventure game. For standard adventure games you don't have direct control over the character, you just tell the character what to do and then they do it. When you can directly control the character's movement or actions it's considered an action-adventure game, it's still an adventure game because it would focus on puzzle solving. With JRPGs you have direct control over the player's movement, and the main focus is on battles, strategy, and statistics(levels, stamina, etc). It's really not an adventure game. There's the Quest for Glory series, but they're considered RPG/Adventure hybrids. Just because a game is linear doesn't mean that it has to be an adventure game, and just because a game has various paths doesn't mean that it's an RPG. Consider Maniac Mansion, it's definitely an adventure game but it's not that linear, you can select from various characters who each have various strengths and weaknesses and there's multiple solutions for puzzles and different endings for the game based on how you play it.
Shenmue is an adventure game, not an RPG.
And it's funny you bring up that point of Shenmue as being a sticking point b/c for me I almost wished I had less freedom. As was mocked by Penny Arcade, I could never understand why Ryu had no problem w/ playing arcade games, drinking a billion sodas or buying capsule toys when he's supposed to be out to avenge his father's death. To me, that's a problem w/ many adventure or role playing games: you're given all these side quests and things you CAN be out doing when you'd really think that given the situation the characters would want to get on w/ what they're supposed to be doing instead. I think Chrono Trigger is one of the few games that found a way around this problem.
I don't know if I might've just missed it, but what about the idea that, just maybe, what we've been calling the "traditional" JRPG is just a single role-playing campaign? I haven't actually played through a pen-and-paper game (just sat in on one or two), but from what I remember and have pieced together it seems like players will define their stats on their sheet, take on the role of the character they've created, start to explore to reach a certain point (something like "find the treasure of Astheron" or "kill the guy who kidnapped the princess"), collect items and upgrade weaponry/armor/spells along the way and reach a conclusion. Then they can use the same characters - if they all so decide - and have another go at another campaign.
Sounds actuallly fairly similar to a JRPG to me, just longer because you're playing with other people instead of a computerized form of dice-rolling and enemy generating.
Anyone think I'm just missing something here? I think this could end up akin to the "are video games are" cerfuffle, which is just a way to stir up a pot and call someone else wrong/right/confused on a topic that doesn't have a right or wrong answer.
*shrug*
I've enjoyed Persona, personally. I call it a JRPG.
Bioware is incapable of making fun games just like pretty much every Western RPG developer. Very hard for me to take them seriously.
I agree.. Mass Effect, Fallout, Morrowind, Knights of the old Republic and Deus Ex are all garbage.
I suggest watching this http://www.youtube.com/user/MissHann...19/ifA1AQe_NF0
And then playing a JRPG with generic angsty hero with cutesy comedic sidekick... you know "THAT ONE" I mean.
<@Carey85> I-75 is the second busiest freeway in the country behind I-95
<@NE146> u r
I'm glad you stated this was an opinion; instead of fact.
Western RPGS are my favorite genre personally. Have been for years.
On the other hand; Japanese RPGs pretty well put me to sleep. Unless it's Monster Hunter, or something of that ilk.
Fucking cocktease
U GAIZ JUST DONT LIKE CHANGE , (builds a artificial foundation here)
He must have the DOS emulation card in his Amiga! He could make some money off that on ebay. (Yes, I am an Amiga fanboy)I don't know about an RPG, but what about a text adventure?
Eh, I'm not sure how or why people even call Mass Effect or Fallout 3 RPGs in the first place. Both looking and play so much like an FPS that they might as well be. Seriously, is b/c you have stats that go up? Wow. I find it odd that people will whine loudly if you call Legend of Zelda an RPG but almost no one has a problem calling these games RPGs.
And as many people love Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Morrowind... these games do absolutely nothing for me. There are good WRPGs I'm sure, but maybe you just have to have played them in the past to really like stuff like this. They didn't impress me w/ their storytelling (or, in the case of Oblivion and Morrowind, lack thereof), and the gameplay mechanics were frustrating and boring. I mean, maybe if it gets a fratboy to think for two seconds and grow out of the Halo/COD stupor, it's not all bad, but I somehow don't think it even had that effect.
I can't defend modern JRPGs b/c they're just as bad. Most of them seem to be designed by a committee who use the same formula over and over again. But I'll still play them (usually) if it means I don't have to play an FPS and pretend it's an RPG. I'm actually getting sick of the FPS genre ruining my favorite games. (Silent Hill Homecoming cribs the control scheme of most FPS games, and lord knows I don't want to find out how much further Shattered Memories has gone down that path.)
Maybe this just means that the current generation is not for me. I didn't grow up playing PC games, so I have no real love for them. I don't know how to play them, and I don't really feel like learning (especially when I have the sneaking suspicion that the older PC games are far better - I mean, come on, Fallout 1 & 2, or Fallout 3; System Shock 1 & 2 or Bioshock).
I know, this has little to do w/ the topic at hand. Just seems like lately the most fun I've had gaming has been on handhelds playing JRPGs that are finally getting released in NA (Dragon Quest V, for instance) or playing my older consoles. Heck, I've enjoyed the recent PS2 releases a lot more than any 360 or Wii game I've played. I have a bad feeling that the future of RPGs is just going to go further and further along this path. Soon every FPS will have stat building and decision making "that effects the outcome of the game OMG" and get called an RPG, and every JRPG will have the same stock characters and storyline, or feature less and less interactivity (or all of the above).
What does the view of the character have to do with its genre? That's like saying because it is top down, Dragon Warrior is a R.C. PRO AM ripoff?if it means I don't have to play an FPS and pretend it's an RPG. I'm actually getting sick of the FPS genre ruining my favorite games.
these games do absolutely nothing for me. There are good WRPGs I'm sure, but maybe you just have to have played them in the past to really like stuff like this. They didn't impress me w/ their storytelling (or, in the case of Oblivion and Morrowind, lack thereof), and the gameplay mechanics were frustrating and boring. I mean, maybe if it gets a fratboy to think for two seconds and grow out of the Halo/COD stupor, it's not all bad, but I somehow don't think it even had that effect.
Don't worry the frat boys are still jerking off about over-rated garbage like FF7.
<@Carey85> I-75 is the second busiest freeway in the country behind I-95
<@NE146> u r
Fps/rpgs arent a bad thing , they provide alot of freedom for the player and let you play the game the way you want to. It just seems more like square enix is trying to turn rpgs into bad anime by being so linear and focusing too much on mellowdrama.
U GAIZ JUST DONT LIKE CHANGE , (builds a artificial foundation here)
I would pay to have the existence of FF7 ripped out of my memory/consciousness and blocked from any further perception or recognition... 4, 5, 6... *blank stare* ...8... On second thought, I'll wait for the BOGO and get 7 and 8 done together.
Also, Wolfenstein 3D is a total Morrowind/Oblivion rip-off. I have proof.
Last edited by Icarus Moonsight; 05-22-2010 at 12:02 AM.
This signature is dedicated to all those
cyberpunks who fight against injustice
and corruption every day of their lives
The entire battle engine of Mass Effect, Bioshock and Fallout 3 is an FPS with stat building thrown in. You use a gun to shoot, you strafe, you duck behind cover. They're a stat-building system shy of being Gears of War, basically. And no, the fact that there's melee weapons doesn't change anything. (Most FPS games have melee weapons. Is Half Life an RPG?)
Not sure that there are the same people jerking off over FF7 that jerk off over Halo. I'm not sure that FF7 fans can be called "frat boys." Emo boys, I can understand. But frat boys???
Fraternity is a group of men/boys... Technically NAMBLA qualifies as a fraternity. They also would gladly accept Emo kids. Probably because they're easier to manipulate/browbeat into the pillow-biter position. Maybe that's why FF7 sold for what it did for that long? The demand spiked because NAMBLA needed carrots for their sticks! OMG, the truth is out there!!!
BRB... Dictaphone... Damn.
This signature is dedicated to all those
cyberpunks who fight against injustice
and corruption every day of their lives
That's mostly Tetsuya Nomura's influence. FFVII and FFVIII had reasonable character designs. But the PS2 era ushered in his zipper and belt fetishes.
I'm no huge fan of FFVIII but compare Squall from FFVIII and Kingdom Hearts to see how Nomura took a big leap of crazy post 2000.
In FFVIII, yeah, there were some embellishments but he looked relatively normal. By Kingdom Hearts, now he's got zippers on his pants, belts around his arms, short sleeves paired with gloves, and he's not even standing like a fucking human being.
And over time Nomura's influence has only gotten bigger. If Square Enix has ventured into stereotypical anime territory then he's the reason. One of the reasons why I like FFXII so much is because it's a breath of fresh air.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
