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Thread: Sega Genesis video picture comparison IN RGB ANALOG, COMPOSITE RCA/AV, & RF/COAX!

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) arcadecup's Avatar
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    Default Sega Genesis video picture comparison IN RGB ANALOG, COMPOSITE RCA/AV, & RF/COAX!

    Ok got the components in today to make some homemade cables.
    I used sonic as the test pattern. I should have used something without a scrolling background or a paused scene. While my $100 digi camera will not give exact image reproduction of what I seen here, you will get the idea...
    RGB wins hands down. some folks may hate scan lines.. i dont.. guess they stuck with me from the arcade days of good old rgb monitors.
    Crystal clear image I can’t believe I played this in RF back in 1990!
    Oh the wonderful days of not knowing in bliss regardless of output mode.

    Last edited by arcadecup; 06-10-2010 at 04:58 PM.
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    Best comparison I have seen on the internet. I have thought about doing that kind of mod myself but have yet to find a sony broadcast monitor for the right price. Have you tried this with other systems?

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    Cool Stuff.

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    Good full screenshot comparisons. The lack of artifacting on the RGB signal makes all the difference. For anyone curious about other systems or wanting a closer look, check out ccovell's site below:

    http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/c...reenshots.html

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    Using a digital camera is not a valid route of comparison, IMO. I play the old stuff via composite, and it doesn't look like the images on that link, with the naked eye. Taking a picture of a TV screen is always going to look like that. Now, of course a game on a computer LCD screen will look the best, but the difference is not as huge as those screen shots. And if you play on an LCD TV, it's very little.
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    Figured I would add to this thread. Its always nice to see people escaping Genesis RF and composite. If you want you can check out this video I did last September comparing Genesis Composite to S-video. I captured off of both signals directly with my cap system to give a solid compare between the two, using multiple titles.

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    My experience with RGB and the Genesis matches this. The Genesis benefits from RGB the most. Other systems not so much - better to settle for S-Video when possible.

    The screenshots may not be perfect, but they do seem correct for the most part. I think the Genesis S-Video looks about the same as the composite, probably a bit better.
    Last edited by Trebuken; 06-10-2010 at 07:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuken View Post
    My experience with RGB and the Genesis matches this. The Genesis benefits from RGB the most. Other systems not so much - better to settle for S-Video when possible.

    The screenshots may not be perfect, but they do seem correct for the most part. I think the Genesis S-Video looks about the same as the composite, probably a bit better.
    If you have a proper S-Video output for a Genesis (and are using a proper CRT TV), it actually looks more like RGB, only less perfect while regular Genesis composite and RF output are similar to each other and look nothing like S-Video/Component/RGB.

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    Here is the cable I put together for those that are curious.. mono sound escaped also
    Snes will be the next one. The molex plug in the middle breaks away so I can use the bnc part of the cable for snes!

    Is there a need for mod services such as s-video genesis upgrade? I wouldn’t mind doing something else then repairing monitors all day!
    Also what would be a respectable price for the various services out there?

    Last edited by arcadecup; 06-10-2010 at 08:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcadecup View Post
    Is there a need for mod services such as s-video genesis upgrade? I wouldn’t mind doing something else then repairing monitors all day!
    Also what would be a respectable price for the various services out there?
    Everyone is kinda different on what they charge for it so you will have to ask around diff forums probably before you would have a idea what you think you could get away with charging people. I was more into selling decks I already modded, then modding others decks for a fee. I totally forgot I had taken these pics, they are from a deck I modded for someone late last year. Sent him these pics after I modded his deck so he could be updated on the status of the mod, see it was done and the improvement in quality:

    SONIC 2
    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66...ic2compare.png

    SF 2 CHAMPION EDITION
    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66...sf2compare.png

    ROAD BLASTERS
    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66...erscompare.png

    OUTRUN
    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66...runcompare.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    If you have a proper S-Video output for a Genesis (and are using a proper CRT TV), it actually looks more like RGB, only less perfect while regular Genesis composite and RF output are similar to each other and look nothing like S-Video/Component/RGB.
    I think the S-Video I have seen was from an X'Eye unit. It was also to the same set as the RGB (Sony PVM 2530). I suspect that this set may not be the best for S-video, though sublime for RGB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PC-ENGINE HELL View Post
    Everyone is kinda different on what they charge for it so you will have to ask around diff forums probably before you would have a idea what you think you could get away with charging people. I was more into selling decks I already modded, then modding others decks for a fee. I totally forgot I had taken these pics, they are from a deck I modded for someone late last year. Sent him these pics after I modded his deck so he could be updated on the status of the mod, see it was done and the improvement in quality:

    SONIC 2
    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66...ic2compare.png

    SF 2 CHAMPION EDITION
    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66...sf2compare.png

    ROAD BLASTERS
    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66...erscompare.png

    OUTRUN
    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66...runcompare.png
    Wow, that just looks great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuken View Post
    I think the S-Video I have seen was from an X'Eye unit. It was also to the same set as the RGB (Sony PVM 2530). I suspect that this set may not be the best for S-video, though sublime for RGB.
    S-video on the X'Eye looks basically the same as it does on any Genesis Model 1 and any Model 2 using the CXA 1145. Its pretty good over all, very sharp, but the S-video out on the Genesis 3 and the last batch of Genesis 2 decks is better due to them using CXA 1645 chips.

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    Wow, s-video looks great in those pics - Mike. I think I need to do an s-video mod. Mike, the PC-Engine/TG/Duo's also have split signals like that of certain models of Genesis. You can get s-video from those as well, without tapping RGB for a separate s-video converter. Do you know of anything that's made such a mod public?
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    You'd pretty much have to build the s-video encoder from the ground up for the Nec stuff, and tap RGB off the chip pins (or exp port depending on the system) into the encoder unless someone has finally found another viable method. I believe with the expansion port you'd have to build decent amps for the RGB and sync lines if you plan to tap them there. Gamesx has the amp schematic. If I remember right its easy to read, just swaps the standard schematic symbols used for electrolytic capacitors and ground with candy cane and pitchfork looking things. I'm honestly not that impressed with svideo on the Nec stuff. Its just such a minor gain in quality compared to what you get with the jump to svideo on Genesis that I have been totally reluctant to mod the Pce decks I'm using right now. You know though, I was thinking the Pal TG-16 uses a Sony CX chip in it. Not positive. Anyone know for sure, and try to use it for a svideo mod?
    Last edited by PC-ENGINE HELL; 06-12-2010 at 10:13 PM.

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    I believe with the expansion port you'd have to build decent amps for the RGB and sync lines if you plan to tap them there.
    The VCE chip (does composite and RGB out) has 4 lines that it uses to make the composite signal. These aren't on the back plane, so you have to open up the system. It looks like everthing is there to make s-video without any separate encoder chip, it's just that no one have attempted it yet. It looks just like that Sega mod you link to.

    I've been doing a lot of tests lately, so maybe I'll mess around with it. Not sure how popular it would be, but at least it would be something.

    Here's the link BTW: http://forum.fobby.net/index.php?t=m...=685#msg_num_4
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    I've been looking into getting this done, and doing it myself possibly... the hardest part I am finding is where to find a good s-video connector that's easy to work with.

    PC Engine Hell do you remember where you got your parts from? I checked Parts Express and Radio Shack, just a bit confused I guess I just need to jump in and start ordering stuff.

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    You can get the caps, resistors,transistor, and rca jacks from a local radio shack if you need to. As far as s-video jacks go. The last ones I used came from Digikey.
    http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/264...t-md-40sp.html

    Tomaitheous, If I had the time and a spare deck to play around with mod wise Id probably be tempted to mess around with it, but Im going to be busy house hunting, then moving and Im not willing to throw down any cash on a spare deck right now. Im almost even considering getting out of Pc-Engine and most console related stuff as it is. Most of my gaming these days has been on pc, and the console stuff has been sitting on a shelf most of the time posing as a long term investment that Im tired of having around due to space restrictions. I might change my mind after I move, who knows.

    The only project I have going right now that I have to finish up this week is my sons computer. I poured in around $200 into that so far and I need to finish it before I start packing stuff up,ect. It does look feasible from looking at the info you linked to, just a little too late for me to care since I'm one step out mentally. If it can be done though, I know others would want to use the mod over building a encoder since it take more time and the Sony CX 1645 isn't as easy to source for everyone.
    Last edited by PC-ENGINE HELL; 06-14-2010 at 12:52 AM.

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