Composite vs. RGB vs. S-Video vs. Component vs. HDMI vs. RF vs. VGA

[Oldskool]

OK, now I know that on the more modern consoles S-Video and RGB looks MUCH better. But am I not the only one that agrees that, on some games, Composite actually looks better? Like the graphics blend in together a bit better and so forth? Or am I just crazy? It seems that with such massive detail, it also makes things look more pixelated as well, especially on an HD tv.

Am I nuts? I just see these screen shot comparisons (like the Sonic title screen a few days ago and the RGB contra screenshots today), and both times I thought that the Composite looked better. Maybe it's because I am so up close to the screen or something. Maybe sitting 6 feet away on a couch will change that, not sure.

I know that on a newer console that actually has great resolution this is not the case.

[Enigmus]

Yeah, I also think composite looks better than an RGB monitor in some cases.

Also, I can't wait for the day that there's HDMI mods using add-on boards. "Hey, look at my HDMI modded NES! It outputs at 1080i, making a 1-UP 'shroom look like my eyeball!"

[Tempest]

If the game was designed to take advantage of composite or RF 'blurriness' then they tend to look worse in S-Video or Component. Many game designers counted on colors bleeding together and jagged pixels blurring together to make the graphics look better. When you take this away and get the literal graphic without any graphical fudging it tends to look bad. This is why I think the SNES looks better in composite even though it supports S-Video.

Tempest

[Oldskool]

If the game was designed to take advantage of composite or RF 'blurriness' then they tend to look worse in S-Video or Component. Many game designers counted on colors bleeding together and jagged pixels blurring together to make the graphics look better. When you take this away and get the literal graphic without any graphical fudging it tends to look bad. This is why I think the SNES looks better in composite even though it supports S-Video.

Tempest

Yeah I dunno. I ended up getting a S-Video cable for my SNES and I think it looks much better.

[izarate]

If the game was designed to take advantage of composite or RF 'blurriness' then they tend to look worse in S-Video or Component. Many game designers counted on colors bleeding together and jagged pixels blurring together to make the graphics look better. When you take this away and get the literal graphic without any graphical fudging it tends to look bad. This is why I think the SNES looks better in composite even though it supports S-Video.

Tempest

I'd say that was more the case with the Genesis. Several games seemed to rely on color banding and other composite twitchs.





As OP said, I also notice that some games look better with composite rather than with S-Video. SFA2 for the SNES looks better in composite in my opinion (specially Dan's face) but I still like the S-Video picture better. For the N64 I'd say that it's like 50/50, bright games (Super Mario 64 and the like) seem to fare better with S-Video. Of course, this is a matter of preference.

[Thrillo]

That's why I'm reluctant to move from a SD CRT, I have almost nothing to gain since I watch little TV and my newest system is a Wii (480i/p), and everything to lose. I do however, use s-video as much as possible, though 32X composite does look better for some Genny games. Straight Genny composite is ass, though.

[arcadecup]

I have a stockpile of brand new 19" crt tvs mothballed for the day people start crying for the beautiful glow of electrons lighting up phosphor.

I am collecting some of the best hdtv crts for classic gaming.. It will be a cold day in hell that I play a classic console on a lcd or plasma.

[jb143]

If the game was designed to take advantage of composite or RF 'blurriness' then they tend to look worse in S-Video or Component. Many game designers counted on colors bleeding together and jagged pixels blurring together to make the graphics look better. When you take this away and get the literal graphic without any graphical fudging it tends to look bad. This is why I think the SNES looks better in composite even though it supports S-Video.

Tempest

Some games were designed to blur the colors/pixels together and will look better when allowed to do so. For RF though, you also have audio on the same signal as video which adds extra noise causing un-needed fuzzyness. This wasn't done to blur the colors together. This was done because most people's TV sets only had an antenna input at the time. At the very least, getting the audio and video on seperate signals will get you what the game was "originally designed for". Or what other people said. Get the best signal you can and adjust it on the TV end.

[Black_Tiger]

OK, now I know that on the more modern consoles S-Video and RGB looks MUCH better. But am I not the only one that agrees that, on some games, Composite actually looks better? Like the graphics blend in together a bit better and so forth? Or am I just crazy? It seems that with such massive detail, it also makes things look more pixelated as well, especially on an HD tv.

With consoles like the SMS, Genesis and TG-16/Duo, the imperfect composite signals do more than blend things with blurring. the colors are washed out and drabber than they really are before being outputted and there are other problems with the Sega output quality.

If you really like the look of composite video for classic consoles like these, you should get an s-video mod or XMD-3 and then use an s-video-to-composite adapter (cheap and tiny) to play them in composite with full picture quality. You'll get the best of both.

Here are some pics that show the difference-

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/video666.html

[Arkhan]

I use RF where possible. I love RF on the Sega Genesis.

My breakdown of some consoles and their hookups:

Atari 2600: One of those doodads to make it hook up to RF the sane way
Master System: RF
NES: RF, unless I happen to be going composite into a 1084 monitor. Both look the same honestly
SNES: RF with the audio going to a stereo
PCE: Composite
MSX: RGB. Anything else is terrorism.

hell, I used RF on playstation saturn and dreamcast for like 2 years. Everyone makes fun of RF. I think it's pretty damned fine lol.

I don't bother modifying my systems for SVIDEO and crap. Too much work for something mundane. I'm not going to remember the 5% increase in video quality after I stop playing and go do something else.

[Ponyponypony]

I use RF where possible. I love RF on the Sega Genesis.

hell, I used RF on playstation saturn and dreamcast for like 2 years. Everyone makes fun of RF. I think it's pretty damned fine lol.

I like it better daisy-chaining seven systems via RF modulators more than I do buying a video switcher and having to figure out which system is on which number. Our current setup is impossible to navigate without the TV, receiver, and VCR (Yes, I still have one. VHS tapes make me nostalgic) remotes.

Channel 3 FTW.

[Zapf]

You could just label your switcher...

[Oldskool]

I like it better daisy-chaining seven systems via RF modulators more than I do buying a video switcher and having to figure out which system is on which number. Our current setup is impossible to navigate without the TV, receiver, and VCR (Yes, I still have one. VHS tapes make me nostalgic) remotes.

Channel 3 FTW.

The problem I've noticed with daisy chaining RF connections though is that the further out the connection the worse the quality. It's like the signal is degraded each time it goes through an RF box.

[Gavica]

what game is that with the shooting humanoid bird?

[Ponyponypony]

The problem I've noticed with daisy chaining RF connections though is that the further out the connection the worse the quality. It's like the signal is degraded each time it goes through an RF box.

It generally does. It's one of the things they taught me in the Army. The easiest way to minimize it is to make sure the connectors are clean and the other systems in front of it are unplugged (most electronics carry a 5v stand-by charge).

[Ed Oscuro]

I haven't personally run all these options but I'll just share my understanding of the relative strengths of the video types:

Composite vs. RGB vs. S-Video vs. Component vs. HDMI vs. RF vs. VGA

Composite (assuming three-plug stereo RCA or RF) - easy and cheap video capture but poorer quality
RGB - good video capture options but expensive, cables required, mods often also; some confusion due to various scan rates (15KHz for classic arcade and some consoles / computers i.e. X68000 / FM Towns; 24KHz for "medium resolution" such as the Sega System 24 (Crack Down, Scramble Spirits); 31KHz also (VGA runs at this scan rate).
S-Video - good balance between ease of capture, good audio sync options (afaik), and good quality; good support among legacy consumer systems
Component - good picture, ease of video capture, more expensive
HDMI - good picture quality, some reasonable video capture options. Downside: many sources (i.e. the PS3) disallow capture via HDCP.
VGA - actually a form of analog video more or less similar to RGB. Good picture quality up to a certain rate, still one of the most cost-effective ways to get high resolutions due to ubiquitous hardware. Cons - no audio information sync, video (or even stills) capture is expensive. Similarly look at DVI, which seems to already be at the end of its short life.