Composite vs. RGB vs. S-Video vs. Component vs. HDMI vs. RF vs. VGA

[Oldskool]

Oh yeah, Odin Sphere looks BEAUTIFUL on my PS2 using Component cables to the LCD tv.

One thing I noticed though, if I try to play PS1 games on my PS2 using the component cables, half the time the graphics are all messed up on the screen. Not sure what's going on there.

On my normal PS1 (phat) I use the official Sony S-Video cable and it looks fantastic. Symphony of the Night in component looks NICE.

One thing I don't understand, why are people composite and even S-Video modding their old Atari 2600/5200/7800? How much better can a block really look? Never understood that. I do understand not having RF interference on the screen though. My Radio Shack switch box is horrible about that. I am gonna pick up one of those RCA ---> RF pass through adapters. Supposed to clean it up quite a bit I hear.

[Greg2600]

The pass through works terrifically. I have no problem with RF on the old Atari's and Colecovision, although on my new LCD TV it looks about 1000 times better than the old CRT TV did. I don't play any of my classic systems enough to warrant any AV mods. Plus I like to keep everything in original unaltered condition.

[Oldskool]

Yeah I should run down to Radio Shack and pick one of those adapters up, hell what's a few bucks lol

[dreamcaster]

The only console I use RF on are things that I have no choice with e.g my Atari 2600, 7800, NES top loader.

Where possible I use s-video, and where not possible, composite.

[Oldskool]

The problem that I have is I don't feel like hacking up every console that I own. BUT I have been tempted to mod one of my Genesis' for Component out since they natively output RGB it might not be too difficult.. Problem is that the J-Rok converters are sort of expensive.

I did find a Genesis RGB/SCART cable and SCART to Component converter that I will be using here soon, I took the case apart and if I can find a way to put the PCB in the console and run the outputs out the back of it, it would only cost about 45 bucks instead of 90.

[zektor]

I'll have to get a youtube video together one day soon showing my classic consoles hooked up RF with an RF amplifier. I was playing "Beauty and the Beast" today on Intellivision and you could swear it was running a composite mod. But, this is RF. It is very possible to get composite or better results on the old RF if you use the right methods. It looks fantastic!

I have two of these. One Archer and one RadioShack (same maker):

http://books.google.com/books?id=pAA...epage&q=archer amplified video selector&f=false

This is a much older model of what I have tho. Mind actually looks a little more up to date and has buttons for selection. Looks like a modern a/v selector but uses coax only. They rock. It takes it's own power and not only acts as a selector for old game systems (I can have I believe six connected at once) but amplifies the signal so it looks great.

[Oldskool]

Hmm sounds interesting. I have never heard of such high praise for RF. You should post up some videos or screenshots STAT!

[Zing]

One thing I noticed though, if I try to play PS1 games on my PS2 using the component cables, half the time the graphics are all messed up on the screen. Not sure what's going on there.

Do you mean the entire image is messed up and unwatchable, or just that you have graphical errors.

If the entire screen is messed up, then it is probably your TV. Almost all PS1 games output at 240p when using the PS2 via component. Quite a few digital TVs do not fully support this mode.

[Arasoi]

Hmm sounds interesting. I have never heard of such high praise for RF. You should post up some videos or screenshots STAT!

Same. I'd be interested to see how it looks as well after your descriptions (as best as videos or photos can show, anyway).

I've been mulling over picking up an Atari and s-video modding it, but I question how well it will look comparatively considering the level of graphics those machines put out. Maybe amplified RF-A/V conversion would be fine for Atari/Inty/etc (my monitors dont support RF)

[Oldskool]

Yeah the PS1 bios will show ok. And sometimes the games will too. But sometimes the cut scenes won't show or will be off. Sometimes it's the title screens, sometimes it's the whole game, depends on the game. It's rather annoying because I like component on the PS2, and hate not being able to play PS1 games on it. This is on a 42" Polaroid 1080p LCD TV. I guess I could try hooking it up via component onto my 50" Toshiba standard definition TV and see what happens.

Does anyone else ever have this problem playing PS1 games on their PS2 using component cables on an HDTV?

[Oldskool]

Same. I'd be interested to see how it looks as well after your descriptions (as best as videos or photos can show, anyway).

I've been mulling over picking up an Atari and s-video modding it, but I question how well it will look comparatively considering the level of graphics those machines put out. Maybe amplified RF-A/V conversion would be fine for Atari/Inty/etc (my monitors dont support RF)

I think it would be fun to do, just to do it. But like you I've wondered if it's really even worth it. To me how much better can a block really look? I mean the graphics are so basic I don't see how it could get much better except for maybe the edges of the blocks/pixels are more clear or something.

Really, as far as my Atari is concerned, I just don't like the interference and wavy lines that the Radio Shack TV/Game Switch outputs. If I could just clean that up I'd be pretty happy with it really.

[Greg2600]

In keeping with zektor's post, I used to have a few of the Radio Shack signal (db) boosters like this thing here. I think a couple 10db and one 20db. I used to use them, or try to, to clear up the OTA TV signal in my college dorm room. But they made hardly any difference.



I felt that all they really did was blur the picture enough to eliminate some of the "snow." I chucked them all several years ago, so I can't test, but like I said, the LCD TV seems to eliminate much of the "snow" interference itself. I think I tried it on NES/SNES back in the day as well, as I rarely had a TV with anything but RF, and it didn't do much. So I'm surprised you're saying they work so well. What db level does yours amplify at?

Similar to replacing your RF wires in the old Atari's, there are a number of things you can do to get a clearer picture. What you can't fix is the loss of color strength/depth, which is simply a result of I guess either RF in general or an old system RF modulator. For instance, in a quick compare, I found the 2600 on my TV with RF has some fuzziness, which again the LCD kind of hides. But the colors are either too bright or not correct. The 5200 is worse.

But like Oldskool is saying, do you go out and mod all your old systems? If you play them a lot, I'd say probably yes, most people that do it will do so for under $50 at most. In any case, getting a brand new RF passthrough adapter is a must.

[Oldskool]

Well I picked up an RCA to RF pass through adapter from Radio Shack when I was at the mall for a few bucks. Have yet to power up the old 2600 to test it out, but I will soon, I am anticipating the difference.

And on another note, I finally got all my stuff in (the RGB/SCART cable and component converter) from Ebay and all hooked up with the X'Eye.

OK, now I've heard that RGB/Component is cystal clear on the Genesis, but DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNN it's almost TOOO freakin' clear. You can see EVERYTHING, and sometimes that's not good on the Genesis haha. I noticed games with dithering almost looked better in some ways in Composite. But games that didn't use a lot of dithering like Sonic was JAWWWSOME!

Keep in mind that this is on a 50" big screen NON LCD TV. And I am sitting 4 feet away haha, WAY too close. I need to get a smaller TV. I bet from 6-10 feet it would look amazing on a 32-36" WEGA.

I have yet to try the component X'Eye on the LCD TV, but I have a feeling that it's going to have issues because my PS2 with component video, while playing PS1 games has video issues on the LCD TV. So I think my TV is not made for low res component video or something.

[Gavica]

Well I picked up an RCA to RF pass through adapter from Radio Shack when I was at the mall for a few bucks. Have yet to power up the old 2600 to test it out, but I will soon, I am anticipating the difference.

And on another note, I finally got all my stuff in (the RGB/SCART cable and component converter) from Ebay and all hooked up with the X'Eye.

OK, now I've heard that RGB/Component is cystal clear on the Genesis, but DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNN it's almost TOOO freakin' clear. You can see EVERYTHING, and sometimes that's not good on the Genesis haha. I noticed games with dithering almost looked better in some ways in Composite. But games that didn't use a lot of dithering like Sonic was JAWWWSOME!

Keep in mind that this is on a 50" big screen NON LCD TV. And I am sitting 4 feet away haha, WAY too close. I need to get a smaller TV. I bet from 6-10 feet it would look amazing on a 32-36" WEGA.

I have yet to try the component X'Eye on the LCD TV, but I have a feeling that it's going to have issues because my PS2 with component video, while playing PS1 games has video issues on the LCD TV. So I think my TV is not made for low res component video or something.

Which Scart/component converter, etc did you buy for the genesis? I would like to buy also for mine, just not sure which ones are the best

[Oldskool]

This is the cable I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sega-Genesis-2-I...#ht_2577wt_930

And this is the converter that I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCART-RGB-YUV-Co...#ht_1396wt_930

With that converter, if you are in the US you will have to use a 12V AC Adapter with a positive tip, I just used my universal Recoton adapter.

And then for the component cables, I am using gold Monster Cables.

I'm not sure how that converter is compared to other ones on the market but the picture is amazing to say the least. I honestly don't think it could get any better.

[Zapf]

I was using that transcoder, it was pretty good for the price. I also have a kramer fc-14, one of the best transcoders out there from what I was told, but I didnt see a noticeable improvement (It was also somewhat annoying to use as it required bnc connections and a clean composite sync signal).

I'm using an XRGB2 at the moment, and I like it a lot. Very high quality.

[Zapf]

So I think my TV is not made for low res component video or something.

Some TVs do not accept 240p signals over component, which is what (at least some) ps1 games run. You'll have the same problems with snes/genesis.

[Oldskool]

Yeah that's what I'm afraid of, so I have not even bothered transferring the system into the living room to try. I don't want to waste my time really.

OK, well I got the old Atari dusted off, popped in some Frogger and fired it up with the new RCA ----> RF adapter and WOW, HUGE difference. There is NO radio frequency interference at all. Everything looks good. Of course it's not crystal clear because it's still RF but what a difference. Everyone should go down to Radio Shack and pay the $3 for the adapter. Well worth it.

Before there was a lot of snow, static, fuzziness, interference. Even on the LCD, now it looks pretty damn good. I was using the Radio Shack tv/game switch box before.

Only downside to this adapter is you'll need to get a splitter if you have anything else hooked up via RF/COAX.

Check out my thread about my Atari here to see the screen pics:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146128

[MarioMania]

I don't think the VCS or other systems like the Intellivision or even the Colecovision was even built for Composite Video in mind

[Gavica]

This is the cable I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sega-Genesis-2-I...#ht_2577wt_930

And this is the converter that I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCART-RGB-YUV-Co...#ht_1396wt_930

With that converter, if you are in the US you will have to use a 12V AC Adapter with a positive tip, I just used my universal Recoton adapter.

And then for the component cables, I am using gold Monster Cables.

I'm not sure how that converter is compared to other ones on the market but the picture is amazing to say the least. I honestly don't think it could get any better.

thanks, yes I need for US.

What did you use for sound? you think this should work fine?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT