Can Sega CD full motion video be restored and remastered in high def?

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

I may not have a full understanding of how the full motion video in Sega CD games was filmed, but I imagine they recorded it with a normal video camera, then ran it through a computer, and then downgraded it onto a Sega CD disc. If this is so, couldn't they locate the original film and remake the game in a better film quality, perhaps high def?

And what about a game like Road Avenger. Since the cartoony scenes look pre-rendered, I woder if those could be cleaned up and made into a remastered edtions. Wouldn't that be sweet?

Maybe the could release a Blu-Ray disc with all the footage from thier games dumped on it. Imagine turning down the lights, making some popcorn, and watching a mini Sewer Shark movie, or maybe some Night Trap.

[Leo_A]

If it was videotaped like many prime time television shows were from the 70s onward and daytime television (Game shows, soap operas, etc.) were from ~1960 onwards, it's never going to be in high definition. The best that could be done is to upscale the transfers.

And I can almost guarantee you it was taped to keep cost down, for the ease of editing, and due to the realization that the gaming platforms of the era would only be able to display the footage with heavy compression. No need to increase your production cost by filming it if it isn't going to bring any benefit to the end product.

And for it to ever look better then the best looking release for whatever title is in question, the original elements (If it was filmed) or tape would have to be available. And that is quite likely lost to time.

The only way it's going to ever be in true HD in the era these games were produced (1990-1995) was if it the FMV scenes were filmed and the film elements still exist. Both are highly unlikely.

[Enigmus]

Well, the Sonic CD footage was used for the PC version with higher resolution, so there's a possibility for the Sonic CD animation source. As for Night Trap, that was recorded on tape for Scene of the Crime for NEMO in 1987, so that's an upscale. The quality of Road Avenger seems to be digitized film, so that might be possible to remaster if found.

[Gameguy]

Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective was re-released on DVD with better quality video.

[Oldskool]

Night Trap was on the 3DO I believe, so that should be a pretty clear version of it. And like mentioned, it was made for a VHS based console at one time (that was never released), so at best you could watch it in VHS quality. Some VHS movies were re-mastered onto DVD, so I'm sure if someone wants to sit there frame by frame it could be done. Hell if they can re-master Alice in Wonderland into hi def they can do anything.

Sherlock Holmes, Dragon's Lair, Space Ace - a lot of those games were re-released on DVD.

Games like Road Avenger, Strahl (Triad Stone), and Cobra Command were originally laser disc based arcade games, so you know those can be watched at laser disc quality at best (Basically DVD quality).

Sewar Shark was another game that was supposed to be released on that VHS based console, so somewhere out there are VHS quality videos of it, which I'm sure someone can re-master.

Anything with FMV was recorded to tape at one point in time, so it's just a matter of someone sitting there and re-mastering it frame by frame which is a ton of work.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Footage for several Digital Pictures games was used in a made for TV movie that I own. The quality's a bit close to SP VHS, so there's a bit of artifacting. But it works.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

If it was videotaped like many prime time television shows were from the 70s onward and daytime television (Game shows, soap operas, etc.) were from ~1960 onwards, it's never going to be in high definition. The best that could be done is to upscale the transfers.

Seinfeld was filmed around the same time as the Sega CD stuff, and it was fuly remastered into high definition. Here's the description of the process:

"Sony Pictures cropped out the top and bottom parts of the frame, while restoring previously cropped images on the sides, from the 35 mm film source, to use the entire 16:9 frame."

So I wonder if any Sega CD stuff was filmed in 35 mm.

[Arcade Antics]

Seinfeld was filmed around the same time as the Sega CD stuff, and it was fuly remastered into high definition. Here's the description of the process:

"Sony Pictures cropped out the top and bottom parts of the frame, while restoring previously cropped images on the sides, from the 35 mm film source, to use the entire 16:9 frame."

So I wonder if any Sega CD stuff was filmed in 35 mm.

Comparing Seinfeld, one of the most highly successful (read: money making) TV shows of all time, with Sega CD FMV games is like comparing prime rib with... strange brother of prime rib.

Even if they could do it, they wouldn't. There's no money to be made.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Night Trap was on the 3DO I believe, so that should be a pretty clear version of it. And like mentioned, it was made for a VHS based console at one time (that was never released), so at best you could watch it in VHS quality. Some VHS movies were re-mastered onto DVD, so I'm sure if someone wants to sit there frame by frame it could be done. Hell if they can re-master Alice in Wonderland into hi def they can do anything.

Sherlock Holmes, Dragon's Lair, Space Ace - a lot of those games were re-released on DVD.

Games like Road Avenger, Strahl (Triad Stone), and Cobra Command were originally laser disc based arcade games, so you know those can be watched at laser disc quality at best (Basically DVD quality).

Sewar Shark was another game that was supposed to be released on that VHS based console, so somewhere out there are VHS quality videos of it, which I'm sure someone can re-master.

Anything with FMV was recorded to tape at one point in time, so it's just a matter of someone sitting there and re-mastering it frame by frame which is a ton of work.

Gosh, you really know your stuff. With Road Avenger, are you saying they took the arcade disc and stuffed it onto a Sega CD disc? And with Sewer Shark, are you saying there are no "negatives" to enhance, just basically VHS tape.

I read about this issue where somebody was describing Paramount's efforts to remaster Star Trek the Next Generation. Basically, the outside shots on the ship were shot on "video," therefore it is very hard to upgrade the images. Here's a piece from the article:

"One concern is the visual effects which were were done in video and therefore more difficult to translate to HD. The team is seeing if the effects can be ‘upresed’ or if they need to be entirely redone (as they did with TOS). "

I'm not sure if this relates to what you are saying. The usage of the term "video" in the statement kind of confuses me.

[Leo_A]

Some VHS movies were re-mastered onto DVD, so I'm sure if someone wants to sit there frame by frame it could be done. Hell if they can re-master Alice in Wonderland into hi def they can do anything.

They were shot with video cameras to video tapes, but that doesn't mean it's VHS. VHS was a consumer level video tape format and wasn't used professionally. They would've been shot on something like MII, Betacam, Type C, Type B, or even on older systems like 2" quad that was an industry standard for videotaping from the late 50s well into the 70s.

It's impossible to say what the resolution is as analog videotape has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts, but an NTSC TV signal archived on a 20 year old videotape is severely lacking in resolution by today's standards and is never going to look better then a 20 year old videotape can.

I'm unaware of any movies having been shot on any professional grade videotape. It was generally used from it's introduction at the very end of the 50s on daytime television like game shows, nightshows like Johnny Carson, for archiving news broadcast, commercials, etc. Then in the 70s it started to gain use in prime time programming as producers sacrificed image quality for lower production cost (Few examples of videotape use in prime time programs exists before 1970, with 6 episodes of the Twilight Zone being the only prime time programming I remember being videotaped). But it never made any inroads into Hollywood. The most it would've ever been used in Hollywood was probably for computer special effects, not for filming actors. Even the best professional videotape standard of decades past would've looked poor on a theater screen.

Something like Alice in Wonderland can be mastered in HD because they were filmed. That's means it's going to effectively be at a resolution even greater then 1080p, even though it's impossible to pinpoint exactly what the resolution of film is since it has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts. All Hollywood movies and most prime time television programs during the first 25 years of television can be transferred to HD (Which companies like CBS do when they do new transfers from original elements these days to prep programs for DVD and syndication) as long as film elements exists since they're already effectively at greater resolutions then even 1080p.

Anything with FMV was recorded to tape at one point in time, so it's just a matter of someone sitting there and re-mastering it frame by frame which is a ton of work.

Not on videotape. What you see is what you get, you can't restore/remaster something on magnetic media. And film restoration/remastering means things like washing the film elements to eliminate dirt and debris, color correction through filters to combat fading (Especially on color film from around 1955-1965) going back to the seperation masters like Disney did for several of their live action films like "The Parent Trap" prior to their DVD release, etc.

[Enigmus]

Comparing Seinfeld, one of the most highly successful (read: money making) TV shows of all time, with Sega CD FMV games is like comparing prime rib with... strange brother of prime rib.

Even if they could do it, they wouldn't. There's no money to be made.

By strange prime rib brother, do you mean McRib?

Still, that's a bad comparison. A better one is a forgotten yet decent 80s animated film is like a Sega CD FMV game's footage in 35 mm.

Either way, if Road Avenger is 35 mm, hello spending the next decade or two remastering and then assembling a 4D rig just for Road Avenger.

EDIT: Orion Pimpdaddy, all the "HD" was was an option to stretch it to fit the 16:9 aspect and a 2xSai filter which, ironically, only makes it look good on a low-definition CRT.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Comparing Seinfeld, one of the most highly successful (read: money making) TV shows of all time, with Sega CD FMV games is like comparing prime rib with... strange brother of prime rib.

Even if they could do it, they wouldn't. There's no money to be made.

What about Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection? They upgraded 40 games to HD and put them all onto one disc. Certainly the process wasn't that expensive if they were able to do 40 games.

It seems to me Sega could dump some of the more classic FMV games onto virtual console or something. Like Night Trap Enhanced.

[Oldskool]

They were shot with video cameras to video tapes, but that doesn't mean it's VHS. VHS was a consumer level video tape format and wasn't used professionally. They would've been shot on something like MII, Betacam, Type C, Type B, or even on older systems like 2" quad that was an industry standard for videotaping from the late 50s well into the 70s.

It's impossible to say what the resolution is as analog videotape has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts, but an NTSC TV signal archived on a 20 year old videotape is severely lacking in resolution by today's standards and is never going to look better then a 20 year old videotape can.

I'm unaware of any movies having been shot on any professional grade videotape. It was generally used from it's introduction at the very end of the 50s on daytime television like game shows, nightshows like Johnny Carson, for archiving news broadcast, commercials, etc. Then in the 70s it started to gain use in prime time programming (Few examples of such use exists before 1970, with 6 episodes of the Twilight Zone being the only prime time programming I remember being videotaped). But it never made any inroads into Hollywood. The most it would've ever been used in Hollywood was probably for computer special effects, not for filming actors. Even the best professional videotape standard of decades past would've looked poor on a theater screen.

Something like Alice in Wonderland can be mastered in HD because they were filmed. That's means it's going to effectively be at a resolution even greater then 1080p, even though it's impossible to pinpoint exactly what the resolution of film is since it has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts.


It's impossible to say what the resolution is as analog videotape has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts, but an NTSC TV signal archived on a 20 year old videotape is severely lacking in resolution by today's standards and is never going to look better then a 20 year old videotape can.



Not on videotape. What you see is what you get, you can't restore/remaster something on magnetic media. And film restoration/remastering means things like washing the film elements to eliminate dirt and debris, color correction through filters to combat fading (Especially on color film from around 1955-1965 that was especially prone to fading, such as Disney films like "The Parent Trap"), etc.

Show's what I know!

[Oldskool]

What about Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection? They upgraded 40 games to HD and put them all onto one disc. Certainly the process wasn't that expensive if they were able to do 40 games.

It seems to me Sega could dump some of the more classic FMV games onto virtual console or something. Like Night Trap Enhanced.

I think that's a bit different though. Because video games are already digital, and most of those are basically just roms that are being run through graphical filters. Hell running emulators with filters and roms on my laptop via VGA to my LCD screen makes it look Hi Def and there was no re-mastering involved at all.

[Leo_A]

What about Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection? They upgraded 40 games to HD and put them all onto one disc. Certainly the process wasn't that expensive if they were able to do 40 games.

It seems to me Sega could dump some of the more classic FMV games onto virtual console or something. Like Night Trap Enhanced.

Nothing is done to the games on Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection. It's the original code running through a emulator that replicates the functions of the Genesis on the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3.

Like Oldskool said, all the special effects are post processing effects that the emulator is applying to the image after it's rendered by the emulator before sending it to your television. The emulator is upscaling the games to HD resolutions (Not rendering them in HD, the game code is untouched) with optional effects like stretching the image, blurring it to try to smooth out the image if someone prefers that look, and so on that are available to the user if they desire to enable them.

And I should clarify that I was talking about theatrical movies in my earlier post. Many made for tv movies, such as a lot of the stuff Ernest Borgnine was starring in the during the 70s like "The Ghost of Flight 401", would've been videotaped and not filmed.

And of course during the Laserdisc era and even in the early days of DVD, sometimes we did get VHS transfers of Hollywood movies. But that's no reflection on how the original film was produced and distributed, just corporate lazyness and cheapness with a total disregard of the consumer and lack of respect for the original work.

And I can assure everyone that something like the FMV on Sonic CD wasn't filmed. Even major cartoons in the era weren't filmed, such as Fraggle Rock from a few years earlier (Although I imagine something meant for prime time like The Simpsons would've probably been filmed). But you can't compare a videogame intro to a major prime time network show like Seinfeld. There was nothing to gain from filming the Sonic CD intro since it was compressed quite a bit on the PC and Sega CD anyways for room for the audio tracks, and it would've just increased cost.

The laserdisc games of the early 80's like Dragon's Lair and Road Blaster/Road Avenger however, were typically filmed it seems. I know for certain at least that the Cinematronics titles (Dragon's Lair, Space Ace) were filmed and the original elements still exist. But graphical quality was of utmost importance in those cases so it made sense. On the cd platforms of the 1990s with heavy compression always applied and often redbook audio tracks taking up most of the space on a cd, FMV usually wasn't even anything like VHS quality. So they would never of significantly raised their production cost by filming it since there would've been zero benefit from doing it. Videotaping it was of higher picture quality then it was going to appear in the final product anyways.

But ignoring the long winded nature of my post, the moral of the story is if it was videotaped like the FMV in most every Sega CD/3do/Cdi/PC title of the first half of the 1990s was, it can never be in HD. The best that could ever be done is to upscale it to HD.

[MASTERWEEDO]

Could always refilm the FMVs in HD. I wonder what would take more time or money.

[Vlcice]

Gosh, you really know your stuff. With Road Avenger, are you saying they took the arcade disc and stuffed it onto a Sega CD disc? And with Sewer Shark, are you saying there are no "negatives" to enhance, just basically VHS tape.

Road Avenger was probably shot on 16mm film, like a lot of cheaper anime from the 80s. If that's the case, then it would probably produce a pretty decent HD transfer, assuming that the original prints even still exist. Dragon's Lair had an HD release by transferring from the original film, and I heard it turned out pretty good.

Most live-action stuff was probably shot on fairly cheap videotape to save cost, and I wouldn't be surprised if the original tapes don't exist anymore for a lot of them.

[Greg2600]

The original Transformers masters exist as video tape only, and always did. They were 4:3 as well, making any kind of HD version pointless.

The other consideration is that often special effects and post-production were done on video tape, even though the actors were shot on film. Converting to HD then requires new effects. It's the major reason Star Trek TNG isn't close to being released on Blu-Ray. And TNG had most of its effects shot on film. 90's shows like Babylon 5, Sliders, often used all digital effects, rendered in SD. That's likely what the FMV stuff was, making a transfer to HD pointless.

[chrisbid]

who owns the rights to the digital pictures catalog? are they still in business?

[Kiddo]

If I recall right, Road Avenger/Road Blaster and the like were animated by Toei, correct?

It'd probably be a good idea to check their track record for remastered footage, but the only thing I can really recall them releasing accessibly recently is the Dragon Ball Z "Dragon Box" sets (for a remastering) and Dragon Ball Z Kai (For using old footage to reversion a show.)