What the hell is wrong with the Canadian post office? (ignore if you hate long posts)

[ryborg]

Seriously. I need to know. Almost everything I've sent there over the last few months has arrived either incredibly damaged, massively late, or most importantly, not at all. It's moved beyond a coincidental fluke to something substantially wrong with the system.

About 15% of my ebay business goes overseas. Anyone who's read my posts here knows I think it's good for business to sell anywhere, anytime. However, I am seriously considering outright banning Canada for a while. I had a perfect holiday season everywhere else in the world (even Italy and Mexico!), but about 7-8 packages just never arrived to Canada, leading to constant refunds and several negative feedbacks, even though I did all I could to help the buyers. I've been shipping from three different post office locations, so it's not like someone in "the back" is stealing my Canadian packages, which is a pretty paranoid way of thinking anyway.

This week alone, I received two negs from western Canada for non-receipt. I first asked for patience, that mail to Canada has been slow recently (especially during the holidays), and they act like I called their sisters a bunch of sloppy whores. God forbid you insult the infallible Canada Post! Both buyers actually refused refunds and apologies for the inconveniences because I said the fault lies with their countries' mail delivery service. They'd rather neg and get nothing (if you think a refund offer is still on the table after a neg, you're nuts).

An email: "Do NOT say it takes long because it's international. I've sent and received stuff to/from US - it NEVER takes a month - it arrives within a week if not 2. Even items from Asia don't take a month. It wasn't even holiday season back when I purchased it."

Ignoring the fact he considers the second week of December to not be part of the holiday season, it's a dumb email. Even the packages that do make it into the buyer's hands take no less than 10-14 days. This is not just my experience; other sellers I know experience the same results. Three to four weeks is in no way unusual, but according to this buyer, it's never happened in the history of Canada. Thanks anyway, guy with 60 feedback!

Later, his neg: "Item NEVER received. Blames on the postal service. Irresponsible. Do NOT trust."

Really now, what more can I possibly do once I drop the package off at the PO? Of course I'm blaming the Canadian post office. The address is written 100% legibly and the customs form is always on the front or top and is filled out correctly. If there's no item 30-35 days after the mailing date, I'll send a refund. Wow, that's pretty irresponsible. (I realize I'm being snarky now, but my emails are actually professional to the buyers, so don't think my 'tude is causing the bad feedback)

So, I have three choices right now (aside from doing nothing and hoping it's all a giant, expensive fluke):

1) Continue to ship to Canada, jack up shipping ~30%, and give a refund at the earliest possible moment to any Canadian who complains, even if it's hours later. I will not speak ill of Canada Post because Canada Post is perfect and asking for patience will only make the buyer angry, and I won't like him when he's angry.

2) Continue to ship to Canada, jack up shipping to Priority/Express Mail costs. This is a HUGE price increase, since I mostly sell items that are under a pound, meaning the shipping price will likely more than double. Unless it fits in a Flat Rate envelope/box (less than half do, since I sell a lot of 5950 hats which go in a custom box), this'll cost, bare minimum (no handling fees), $21. Not appealing when most items I sell go for about $10-20. I'll have a tracking number, which is good, but Priority items to Canada have gone missing before.

3) Ban Canada outright from future sales. Will definitely hurt business, but will have a nice catharsis effect. Will probably lead to a giant flashing text box in all listings taunting Canada while thanking them for all the negs and refunds, which will probably hurt business more.

I'm leaning towards #1, but 2 or 3 might happen too.

Comments, suggestions, similar recent horror stories to share?

[Richter Belmount]

The mounties deliver the mail

[ryborg]

The mounties deliver the mail

[Ponyponypony]

Maybe try a fourth option, in the interim while you're making a decision. I've not done a lot of selling on ebay, but I do a fair amount of buys, and my fiancee is always shipping out art stuff.

What about putting a giant flashing disclaimer warning potential canadian buyers that you've had issues with either the US or Canadian postal system, and give them notice that you'll refund in full if they have issues?

I know it's a ridiculously sensitive issue - when I buy something, the first thing I look at it is the shipping, so if it's a little higher then I go somewhere else. Personally, out of those three options, I would lean more towards #1. Though #3 does sound really cathartic.

Also look at the percentage of business (I saw the 15% overseas) is going to Canada, then look at how much revenue you're generating from sales to Canada compared to everywhere else, and if you can handle losing that.

That's a really crappy situation to be in, and I hope you figure out a solution at some point in the future.

[ryborg]

What about putting a giant flashing disclaimer warning potential canadian buyers that you've had issues with either the US or Canadian postal system, and give them notice that you'll refund in full if they have issues?

Actually, I have done something very similar in recent listings. It's not exactly a huge flashing box, but it's bright orange text in my item description. I think it's one of those things that works better on paper than in reality. Your problem customers generally aren't the ones who read and comprehend.

Also look at the percentage of business (I saw the 15% overseas) is going to Canada, then look at how much revenue you're generating from sales to Canada compared to everywhere else, and if you can handle losing that.

I'd say about half of my international sales go to Canada, so figure around 7% total. Realistically, as much as I really want to, I'm probably not going to outright ban Canada, mostly because I sell a lot of Canadian team sports gear. If I ban them, who is going to buy all of my Maple Leafs stuff??

[badinsults]

I haven't done a lot of Ebay buying, but I know that sometimes things get caught up in customs and can take three or four weeks. Usually, it isn't even the postal system, but a choke point at customs. And it seems pretty arbitrary when they inspect things.

But yeah, I would lay part of the blame on Canada Post as well. They have jacked up shipping rates, while their service gets more and more terrible. Did you know it is literally cheaper to ship things to anywhere in the United States than within Canada? The federal government has made it a policy to ignore crown corporations out of principle, which has led to decreasing service. Seriously, it costs $10-$15 just to send a small package with a couple of games in it within Canada.

[ryborg]

Seriously, it costs $10-$15 just to send a small package with a couple of games in it within Canada.

Exactly why I don't simply cross the border to mail Canadian items. I live in Buffalo, NY and I can be on Canadian soil in 10 minutes by car and 30 by bike.

[gum_drops]

I completely stopped shipping outside the USA. I would rather lose out on international sales than deal with it. I may be losing some money but the stress isn't worth it.

I still ship internationally on trading boards, but never via airmail.

That sucks about the negatives, did the buyers have low feedback? Remember that short time span on ebay where you could report a non paying bidder and if they didnt respond you could slap them with a negative with no retaliation possible, ah the good ol days.

[megasdkirby]

Remember that short time span on ebay where you could report a non paying bidder and if they didnt respond you could slap them with a negative with no retaliation possible, ah the good ol days.

I think you can still do that, but under an automatic type service. The name escapes me, though.

I would not ban Canada, but I understand why you feel this way ryborg. Question: from the total amount of packages sent and those that did not arrive (from your post and checking your feedback, that was two and a neutral from Australia?) what is the percentage of successful transactions? If it's at least 90-95%, I think that would be great overall.

Also, I think buyers were like that because of the holiday season: they were a bit more desperate than on other times of the year. I'm sure that they might be a little more understanding if it was purchased NOT during the Xmas season.

[c0ldb33r]

The Canadians you were dealing with are morons.

I know that when I buy something from the USA, it will take about a month to get here. Not always, but that's the timeline I always keep in my head. Most Canadians who've made multiple purchases are keenly aware of this.

What's interesting is that it's really only USA parcels that are slow. Parcels from Europe or Asia are substantially faster. I blame the people working at the USA/Canada borders.

As for your policy, just have a big disclaimer saying you won't deal with morons. If you're a moron please don't bid. Or only deal with Canadians from online boards and not the bay.

[maxlords]

What c0ldb33r says.....you're just getting the worst of the worst on eBay is all. Most sane people here in Canada know that our postal system is SUPER slow and expect stuff to take an average of 2 solid weeks to get here from the states, regardless of the shipping method. And it's TOTALLY random. I'll have packages take a week, then a month or more.

[joedick]

Canada Post can be brutally slow in December. I bet those people ended up getting their items.

[Zing]

The only problems I have had with Canada Post since moving to Canada eight years ago and having many, many packages sent to me were due to incompetence on the part of the local mail carrier. The service itself has been fine.

Based on the comments you were given by your buyers, I think you just had dicks for buyers. I have had my share as well. People who file non-receipt way too early. People who scammed me since I didn't use a tracking number.

I'm willing to bet that the packages in question either had already arrived and the buyer was just scamming, or they arrived shortly after they filed their claims.

[c0ldb33r]

The only problems I have had with Canada Post since moving to Canada eight years ago and having many, many packages sent to me were due to incompetence on the part of the local mail carrier. The service itself has been fine.

Yeah Canada Post itself isn't that bad. It's the local carriers. They're typical government "I'll get to it when I get to it" employees.

But for the system itself, it's bound to be slower than USPS since our land mass is substantially larger with 10% of the population. The economies of scale can't kick in. We can't really compare Canada Post to USPS.

edit: BTW, why is this is Buying and Selling? Shouldn't it be in the Off-Topic forum, or at the very least Everything Auctions?

[Kitsune Sniper]

I don't ship to Canada on eBay anymore. They made up about a third of my business. Now I don't even bother.

[gum_drops]

As for your policy, just have a big disclaimer saying you won't deal with morons. If you're a moron please don't bid. Or only deal with Canadians from online boards and not the bay.

Unfortunately, by default most morons don't read auction descriptions. They also do not realize they are morons, hence stuck in a continual state of moronity.

[ryborg]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I've read and considered them all. Making matters shittier, just a few hours ago, I got a colossally stupid neutral from another mongoloid (an American this time, for a change of pace). That makes two negs and two neutrals over the last 10 days, none of which were my fault. WEAK.

He bought a $40 McFarlane figure and said it arrived damaged to the point of worthlessness. I found that highly dubious, since I ship those extremely securely, and told him to mail it back for a refund, knowing I can easily sell it again, perhaps for more. It arrived back in the exact, mint condition I sent it in. Amazing.

Yeah Canada Post itself isn't that bad. It's the local carriers. They're typical government "I'll get to it when I get to it" employees.

But then why is the USPS so excellent? Aren't they also government workers? I honestly have zero complaints with them overall. There has to be more to the story.

I don't ship to Canada on eBay anymore. They made up about a third of my business. Now I don't even bother.

Wow, really? A third? That's a ton! Didn't your numbers go down a lot once you laid down the banhammer on the country? That's what I'm afraid of.

Unfortunately, by default most morons don't read auction descriptions. They also do not realize they are morons, hence stuck in a continual state of moronity.

This.

[nebrazca78]

If you want to continue shipping to Canada with full protection you'll have to send via Priority Mail International. Much better than cutting Canada off completely IMO. Unfortunately for sending something small the cost can not only double but easily get to 5X. Also keep in mind that using a Priority Mail flat rate box under 4 lbs. does not have tracking as far as I know, it's kind of a hybrid between First Class and Priority. The USPS needs to get tracking for First Class but that is unlikely because most foreign postal systems are not set up for tracking. It seems the extra money you pay for Priority Mail goes mostly for tracking and the mandatory insurance more than the speed. At the very least they could offer cheaper Priority prices for smaller items. Right now it costs the same to send something that weighs 1 oz. as it does to send something that costs 1 lb. via Priority.

[ryborg]

Also keep in mind that using a Priority Mail flat rate box under 4 lbs. does not have tracking as far as I know, it's kind of a hybrid between First Class and Priority.

What? If you print the labels at home, there is tracking on ALL Priority/Express International.

It seems the extra money you pay for Priority Mail goes mostly for tracking and the mandatory insurance more than the speed.

Insurance is neither mandatory nor included for Priority. http://pe.usps.com/text/Imm/ce_003.htm#ep2041503

[c0ldb33r]

But then why is the USPS so excellent? Aren't they also government workers? I honestly have zero complaints with them overall. There has to be more to the story.

Good point. I should have said that I have no specific reason to blame the corporation itself. I know that my former mailman was a moron and screwed up some of my mail. I'm sure the corporation is full of morons, but I have no real evidence.