When did Nintendo decide to give up on technology?

[j_factor]

Wasn't the SNES processor slower than the Genesis processor even though the SNES came out 2 years later?

Yes. In fact it's also slower than the Turbografx CPU. Of course, the SNES has other advantages.

[kupomogli]

Who's to say that all the games you mentioned couldn't have been done on the Genesis? The problem with the Genesis was that Sega didn't have the third party support that Nintendo had, kind of like the lack of third party support that Nintendo's had since every non handheld console they've released since(mandatory Nintendo flame.)

You made mention of F Zero. Space Harrier 2 came out two years earlier. The amount of objects on screen at the same time,while moving and getting bigger based on their location to the screen to give a 3d effect(super scalar,) and still keeping their graphical detail. Super Thunderblade has even more stuff on screen at the same time.

With games like Space Harrier 2, Super Thunderblade, Ristar, Landstalker, Sonic 3d Blast, and all multiplatform games looking almost as good as the SNES version, you can't say the Genesis was blown out of the water.

Now not having as many great games as the SNES is another story. The SNES was my favorite system that gen, but for coming out two years later it wasn't much more powerful and that's really what the discussion is about.

[Enigmus]

Space Harrier II uses prescaled sprites. F-Zero did it in real time. Same goes for Super Thunder Blade.

[Icarus Moonsight]

This thread belongs in a parallel dimension...

One can overclock an M68k. The CPU is a legendary beast.

[j_factor]

Space Harrier II uses prescaled sprites. F-Zero did it in real time.

No it did not. Play F-Zero sometime and look at the sprites. You can see them redraw. Although it certainly looks a lot better than Space Harrier II, which is pretty hideous IMO. The only thing F-Zero "scales in real time" is a background layer. That's all that Mode 7 actually does -- scale* and rotate a background.

A good comparison on Genesis is Bimini Run. The sprites scale just as well as, if not slightly better than F-Zero. But F-Zero "feels" a lot smoother because of that floor.

* My understanding is that technically, it's not even scaling, but zooming. The difference being that it can only make it larger, it can't add detail as you zoom in. Which is why Mode 7 stuff tends to look blocky.

[Greg2600]

Nintendo has NEVER been overly concerned about technology. They are foremost concerned about profit, which is probably why they're still in business. They are also concerned about usability and reliability, and their stuff usually is. Game Gear, Lynx, TG Express, failed due to battery life. Gameboy, bad graphics and all, kept going. Wii is not even in HD, they don't care, keeps rolling in the bucks. Anyone checked the kinds of losses Sony has incurred on the massively overbuilt PS3? Didn't they almost fire the CEO over that? And then there's Microsoft, who lose money on every console, not to mention the mountain of repairs they continue to have to do. When you look at the success of games sold on mobile devices and facebook, you can make plenty without high technology, costly games. I don't like that, but it's business, and that's all Nintendo cares about.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Technology and profit go hand in hand.

You guys realize that a wheel or controlled fires are also technology right?

Technology provides a surplus value, and a surplus value is taken by profit. Selling at a loss is outright admitting that you fucked up. The market not buying your product until you take a loss is the market telling you you've fucked up. Any enterprise not chiefly interested in profit is doomed at the start. Profit seeking is not a guarantee of success, you still have to earn it by providing a surplus value in your products. That requires an application of technology and some good heads to do it.

[Peonpiate]

Who's to say that all the games you mentioned couldn't have been done on the Genesis? The problem with the Genesis was that Sega didn't have the third party support that Nintendo had, kind of like the lack of third party support that Nintendo's had since every non handheld console they've released since(mandatory Nintendo flame.)

You made mention of F Zero. Space Harrier 2 came out two years earlier. The amount of objects on screen at the same time,while moving and getting bigger based on their location to the screen to give a 3d effect(super scalar,) and still keeping their graphical detail. Super Thunderblade has even more stuff on screen at the same time.

With games like Space Harrier 2, Super Thunderblade, Ristar, Landstalker, Sonic 3d Blast, and all multiplatform games looking almost as good as the SNES version, you can't say the Genesis was blown out of the water.

Now not having as many great games as the SNES is another story. The SNES was my favorite system that gen, but for coming out two years later it wasn't much more powerful and that's really what the discussion is about.

Yea the SNES wasnt as strong as it could have been, the CPU is really the weak spot for the system and Nintendo knew it. Just look at how many of the games needed a faster cpu to run correctly. Games like Mario Kart would not have been possible on the stock 3.6 mhz snes cpu [they used a 10mhz cpu for that game].

[Leo_A]

Yea the SNES wasnt as strong as it could have been, the CPU is really the weak spot for the system and Nintendo knew it. Just look at how many of the games needed a faster cpu to run correctly. Games like Mario Kart would not have been possible on the stock 3.6 mhz snes cpu [they used a 10mhz cpu for that game].

10mhz sounds way too much for the DSP-1, but I can't seem to find much in the way of technical specifications on the chip to know for certain.

[Swamperon]

Wasn't the SNES processor slower than the Genesis processor even though the SNES came out 2 years later?

The Genesis had 'blast processing' But yes I think that is the case. Or if not, the Snes is slower than the Gen in some aspect.

[Gameguy]

The Genesis had 'blast processing' But yes I think that is the case. Or if not, the Snes is slower than the Gen in some aspect.

Oh yeah, the Blast Processing too.

Blast Processing = DMA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_memory_access

So what did DMA do for the Genesis? Actually, not as much as you would think, but it did help out. As confirmed by Bruce Tomlin, Genesis had a DMA unit which could be programmed to do copies and fills both to and from main memory, as well as VRAM-to-VRAM copies, with an arbitrary increment so that you could do column fills as well as row and block fills. During display time, it was about the same speed as doing CPU writes, but — here’s the part that could arguably be called “blast processing” — during vertical blanking it was much faster than the CPU. You may not think that the CPU in a console could get everything ready fast enough to take advantage of VRAM copies during the vertical blanking interval, but you have to remember that the Genesis sported a 7.6MHz 68000 — a 32-bit CPU with no less than 8 32-bit general-purpose registers as well as 8 address registers. That is huge, and Genesis could easily give the DMA controller enough to do.

http://trixter.oldskool.org/2008/12/...rocessing-101/

[otaku]

why go all high tech when you can make money (and great games regardless without all the fancy tech? Apple does this with computers they tend to be underpowered and overpriced but the company makes money and sells well. Also not being real high tech allows nintendo to sell more machines at a lower price undercutting the competition and to make money more quickly to