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Thread: TV for retro gaming?

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    Strawberry (Level 2) Darko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teh_L0ki View Post
    But think of the 3 games or so that support it and how glorious they would look.
    Exactly. I'll continue to think about them while I play my other 1,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by teh_L0ki View Post
    Edit:

    Just to clarify I should be able to prominently notice the scanlines or is this a case where they are sticking out too much? Also I notice a slight shimmer around the borders of objects, would this be the jaggies I've heard about with CRTs or do I have a clunker on my hands?
    Can you upload a picture of what you're talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darko View Post
    Can you upload a picture of what you're talking about?
    I'm having trouble getting my phone to cooperate and that's the only digital camera I have on hand right now. I don't think the picture would help anyway because it would just show a still image. Playing normal gamecube games it isn't so bad, it was just horrible on the gameboy player but that's probably more attributed to the massive upsizing that the image would have to go through.

    However my vision is very acute so I can see the scanlines even from six feet away. I don't think they are excessive becuase it's common to see scanlines if you sit close enough on a SD CRT right? I also notice this slight shimmer to certain objects but I think it might be just becasue of the TVs refresh rate and me being sensitive to it, and not an actual defect.

    I can sort of notice objects maybe... vibrate a little? But again it's very subtle and it's probably just normal operation of the tv as the image is redrawn by each sweep.

    I'm just neurotic and have nothing to compare it to really becuase I haven't used a SD set in over 8 years as I said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teh_L0ki View Post
    I'm having trouble getting my phone to cooperate and that's the only digital camera I have on hand right now. I don't think the picture would help anyway because it would just show a still image. Playing normal gamecube games it isn't so bad, it was just horrible on the gameboy player but that's probably more attributed to the massive upsizing that the image would have to go through.

    However my vision is very acute so I can see the scanlines even from six feet away. I don't think they are excessive becuase it's common to see scanlines if you sit close enough on a SD CRT right? I also notice this slight shimmer to certain objects but I think it might be just becasue of the TVs refresh rate and me being sensitive to it, and not an actual defect.

    I can sort of notice objects maybe... vibrate a little? But again it's very subtle and it's probably just normal operation of the tv as the image is redrawn by each sweep.

    I'm just neurotic and have nothing to compare it to really becuase I haven't used a SD set in over 8 years as I said.
    Are you seeing scan lines (moving across the screen) or the individual pixels? What cables are you using?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darko View Post
    Are you seeing scan lines (moving across the screen) or the individual pixels? What cables are you using?
    I'm seeing the scan lines, using AV red white yellows with a gamecube. Is this abnormal for this tv?

    And around some text I see a swirly kind of effect... I think it's just the scanlines. My mom says it reminds her of neon lights and it has a kind of shimmer. I think it's normal though because I looked at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZPex6Posk

    and on it the scanlines are very prominent as well. So I think I'm just seeing the scanlines or weird interlacing artifacts as described by:

    http://www.projectorcentral.com/video_signals.htm
    Last edited by teh_L0ki; 03-18-2011 at 05:17 PM.

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    sounds like you have the CRT on torch mode. try lowering the brightness and what not. I use a program called display mate to calibrate mine. hook up a PC to the TV and run display mate. it really does make a big difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynicalhat View Post
    sounds like you have the CRT on torch mode. try lowering the brightness and what not. I use a program called display mate to calibrate mine. hook up a PC to the TV and run display mate. it really does make a big difference.
    I'm planning to *ahem obtain one of those proffessional calibration dvds and put it through the works.

    Oh and if anybody is interested the service mode code on the trinitron wegas is when the TV is off Display, 5, Volume +, On.

    edit: while I'm convinced the scan lines are normal should I be notice weird kind of jaggies on borders of objects where it almost looks a little swirly? Is this just an effect of the technology or is it indicative of a problem?

    edit: does anybody know the refresh rate on this TV, I've been searching and searching but cannot find it.

    double edit: gamecube games look ok on it minus the shimmer thing I'm talking about (just on the edge of objects), but my gameboy player looks absolutely awful.
    Last edited by teh_L0ki; 03-18-2011 at 09:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teh_L0ki View Post
    I'm planning to *ahem obtain one of those proffessional calibration dvds and put it through the works.

    Oh and if anybody is interested the service mode code on the trinitron wegas is when the TV is off Display, 5, Volume +, On.

    edit: while I'm convinced the scan lines are normal should I be notice weird kind of jaggies on borders of objects where it almost looks a little swirly? Is this just an effect of the technology or is it indicative of a problem?

    edit: does anybody know the refresh rate on this TV, I've been searching and searching but cannot find it.

    double edit: gamecube games look ok on it minus the shimmer thing I'm talking about (just on the edge of objects), but my gameboy player looks absolutely awful.
    wikipedia ad this to say about NTSC color

    "NTSC color encoding is used with the system M television signal, which consists of 29.97 interlaced frames of video per second, or the nearly identical system J in Japan. Each frame consists of a total of 525 scanlines, of which 486 make up the visible raster. The remainder (the vertical blanking interval) are used for synchronization and vertical retrace. This blanking interval was originally designed to simply blank the receiver's CRT to allow for the simple analog circuits and slow vertical retrace of early TV receivers. However, some of these lines now can contain other data such as closed captioning and vertical interval timecode (VITC). In the complete raster (ignoring half-lines), the even-numbered or 'lower" scanlines (Every other line that would be even if counted in the video signal, e.g. {2,4,6,...,524}) are drawn in the first field, and the odd-numbered or "upper" (Every other line that would be odd if counted in the video signal, e.g. {1,3,5,...,525}) are drawn in the second field, to yield a flicker-free image at the field refresh frequency of approximately 59.94 Hertz (actually 60 Hz/1.001). For comparison, 576i systems such as PAL-B/G and SECAM uses 625 lines (576 visible), and so have a higher vertical resolution, but a lower temporal resolution of 25 frames or 50 fields per second."

    read the rest of the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC for good times.

    as for swirly's i have no idea what you are talking about and would love to see a picture of one of them in the wild =)

    also try backing away from the TV another foot or so. TV have a larger spacing between the pixels as they are desgined to be viewed from afar. compared with a computer monitor that has a much tighter pixel spacing as it is designed to be viewed up closely.

    *edit* you could also make the screen slightly blurry to make the scanlines less noticeable also.

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    The shimmer around the borders of objects sounds like "dot crawl" to me. This is normal for a composite connection and upgrading to an s-video connection should solve the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RP2A03 View Post
    The shimmer around the borders of objects sounds like "dot crawl" to me. This is normal for a composite connection and upgrading to an s-video connection should solve the problem.
    just wikipedia-ed that. kinda looks like the ps2 being hooked up to my big lcd with composite...... it was just .....garbage. the ps2 componenet cables helped, but not by much.

    that being said my SNES and N64 are hooked up to the tv with s-video and i have no such issue.

    my NES with composite doesn't exhibit it either. the cable he is using could be junk also. also he could be using ~ghasp~ RF

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynicalhat View Post
    *snip
    If it's 60hz I'm hoping it doesn't cause me problems because of my headaches. I can't use a CRT computer monitor at 60hz or the flicker just kills me. Although I will admit the TV does not look as flickery as a 60hz CRT monitor at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by RP2A03 View Post
    The shimmer around the borders of objects sounds like "dot crawl" to me. This is normal for a composite connection and upgrading to an s-video connection should solve the problem.
    Thank you so very much. I read the Wikipedia article and it describes my problem perfectly. I'm confident now that my TV is fine, I'm just getting dot crawl and color bleed from the composite video.

    As far as cabling goes I'm just using the standard composite cables that came with the gamecube. I have a bit of a problem because I have two gamecubes a dol-001 that supports component and a dol-101 which does not. The dol-001 is broken so I'm going to have to try and figure something out here. I may end up just paying nintendo to repair one.

    I would just substitute with a wii but I'm planning to run the wii on a EDTV I own, and I still want to be able to use the gameboy player.

    edit: I just realized I can use s-video cables out of the analog port.
    Last edited by teh_L0ki; 03-19-2011 at 11:20 AM.

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    Does anybody here have any recommendations for s-vdieo cables for my gamecube, and ps2? Also component cables for the xbox (the xbox is for another TV). It's basically impossible to find first party connectors so I was wondering if you know of any good third party cables.

    The last thing I want is to make the situation worse, or introduce video lag. Getting away from video lag is why I bought this dang tv in the first place!

    Edit I've always been sketched out by third party cables.

    Will this work well or do you have any recommendations?

    http://www.amazon.com/Gamecube-N64-S...0553417&sr=1-1

    edit: I'll just let this thread die since all my questions about the TV have been answered and I'll start another.
    Last edited by teh_L0ki; 03-19-2011 at 12:12 PM.

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    Running through s-video helped so much, completely eliminated the dot crawl. I still notice on very very small text though it isn't totally clear like the composite screenshot earlier in the thread. You can periodically notice an effect by staring at it which I think is some sort of artifact from the scanlines.

    As I said I'm sensitive to this and haven't used non-progressive standard def in over 8 years.

    What I'm seeing is had to desribe, it's almost like a black line periodically goes through which like I said is probably just the scanlines. But if it's not a small texture I don't notice a thing, it's only on really small text. Does everything sound normal for my wega?

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    [ignore this post. It appears an earlier thread about my questions was answered and I just didn't see it]
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    Looking on craigslist I found a 27" Sony Wega 2005 energy star model. Does anybody know if this model has any difference in picture quality compared to previous models?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordandavid View Post
    Looking on craigslist I found a 27" Sony Wega 2005 energy star model. Does anybody know if this model has any difference in picture quality compared to previous models?
    Ugh lately my TV has taken to doing this effect where the whole image will kind of shimmer or shake for about a minute and it has been doing it about once an hour. The effect lasts for about 10 seconds but I'm worried that it means it's dying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jordandavid View Post
    Looking on craigslist I found a 27" Sony Wega 2005 energy star model. Does anybody know if this model has any difference in picture quality compared to previous models?
    I had a similar model for many years. In terms of picture quality you truly got out what you put in honestly.

    That said Laserdiscs looked pretty damned good on it.

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    Sooo it might be a little weaker or wear out more over time?? I'm just asking because I'm assuming the energy star model might be "underpowered" or what have you.

    And thanks everybody for your patience in putting up with my annoying nit-picking questions. I'm just interested in investing (a mere ~$50) in the best retro gaming tv and some s-video cables once and for all to play my N64 and SNES at their absolute graphic peak. I'm not a graphics junkie, I would just like my games to look (and possibly sound) as good as they possibly can.
    Last edited by jordandavid; 03-28-2011 at 07:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordandavid View Post
    Sooo it might be a little weaker or wear out more over time?? I'm just asking because I'm assuming the energy star model might be "underpowered" or what have you.

    And thanks everybody for your patience in putting up with my annoying nit-picking questions. I'm just interested in investing (a mere ~$50) in the best retro gaming tv and some s-video cables once and for all to play my N64 and SNES at their absolute graphic peak. I'm not a graphics junkie, I would just like my games to look (and possibly sound) as good as they possibly can.
    I'm in the exact same boat.

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    It's my understanding that being of "Energy Star" compliance was far more a label to slap on the box to garner approval of economics and boastfulness. IIRC the specs the Energy Star people demanded could be manipulated in interesting ways somewhat like the marketing department does for computer monitors and TVs in general.

    In all likely hood the fact it's an Energy Star complaint screen won't affect it's performance. For sound though I always recommend you use a separate stereo system, nothing ever sounds good built into a TV.

    Now if you wanted to be REALLY anally retentive you could try to find one of the handful of SCART capable TVs in the US and RGB mod every console you have. There is a certain type of screen used in the broadcasting industry that readily accepts RGB but the name of it escapes me at the moment. Check out an arcade screen then go look at s-video or composite, you'll never look at screens quite the same way again and will forever have SCART envy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by APE992 View Post
    Now if you wanted to be REALLY anally retentive you could try to find one of the handful of SCART capable TVs in the US and RGB mod every console you have. There is a certain type of screen used in the broadcasting industry that readily accepts RGB but the name of it escapes me at the moment. Check out an arcade screen then go look at s-video or composite, you'll never look at screens quite the same way again and will forever have SCART envy.
    I've looked into RGB modding my 64, but it requires a specific model #, and I've looked into the results of some amateur RGB modding attemps and the majority seem to have some kind of dim screen/flashing problem or something.

    Eh emm, I wrote that, googled RGB mod N64 really quick, and found this: http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/rgbn64.htm
    Seems easy enough. Might try it some time if I get another 64.
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    Anyone have any opinions of Sony's KV-36FS100 Trinitron? Can get a 27" model for next to nothing as a backup. First possibly good deal I've seen around here for a while and that's about as heavy as I care to go.

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    they are ok, not the greatest, I feel that totally flat tubed CRTs don't look quite right, sony's older curved Trinitrons look better to me.
    the model number you mention seems to be 36" but you say you don't want to go bigger than 27" so which is it?

    http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-we...36fs100/specs/

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    My N64 Is Fine On My Living Room Samsung TV...

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