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Thread: Could Nintendo's next home console entice the early adopters/graphic whores?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Press_Start View Post
    Well, facing the aftermath of an earthquake, bracing for tsunami, nuclear fallout...
    You do realize all that has just been going on over the past few weeks, don't you? Hard to see why it's relevant when discussing the drop in Nintendo's stock price over the past several years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Press_Start View Post
    You're not seeing the bigger picture.
    He's the one looking at a indicator of Nintendo's success (Their stock price, in this case). And he's shown you how it has dropped significantly over the past several years.

    Clearly, the original DS and the Wii are gradually losing steam and it's clearly reflected in their financials and the value of their stock. It was the turn for the DS to be replaced this year, and I bet it's going to be the Wii's turn next year since they can't really avoid replacing it much longer.

    I think this will likely be the last Christmas season where the Wii is Nintendo's flagship gaming console.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 06-28-2011 at 04:54 AM.

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    I see the next wii being about on par with the current consoles. Nintendo will likely want to keep the system inexpensive and "small". There is only so much you can fit into a small game box without running into heat issues. Honestly, the touted jump to HD will probably be enough for the Nintendo base, it will not have to surpass the 360 or PS3 in terms of graphical power to sell a ton systems.

    Knowing Nintendo they are probably less concerned about maxing the graphical capability and more about the unique selling point of the console. I have no idea what it will be, an improved motion sensor set-up likely, but I bet they have something else up their sleeve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    If the Wii 2 is released with bc with the Wii and Gamecube, then I'll gladly pick it up sooner rather than later. Hopefully Wii games are still online compatible as well.
    If the hardware on Wii 2 (I prefer calling it "Wiivolution" for the time being) is advanced enough, there may be no GCN compatibility unless they either make their own emulator or licence out Dolphin and convert its' code, not to mention that people possibly would ignore the B/C altogether due to its' age. Technology truly marches on, sadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishsandwich View Post
    Please explain these particular games in regards to context.
    Compare Sonic 1,2,3, & Knuckles to Sonic Heroes, Sonic PS360, Secret Rings, Black Knight, & Unleashed, or....

    Compare Final Fantasy I-IX to FF X, X-2, & XII,

    Compare Banjo-Kazooie to B-K Nuts & Bolts,

    Compare Suikoden I&II to III, IV, V & Tactics,

    Compare Parasite Eve to 3rd Birthday....

    If you can honestly and objectively say for any of these that the latter is better than the former, then I got a bridge in Brooklyn that I want sell ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_A View Post
    You do realize all that has just been going on over the past few weeks, don't you? Hard to see why it's relevant when discussing the drop in Nintendo's stock price over the past several years.
    Cause everybody in Japan is hurting right now.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...aftermath.aspx

    http://pink-sheets.info/2011/04/earn...ng-jumps.html/

    It's like getting called off by your disingenuous boss as "a lazy bum" after being shot 3 times.

    He's the one looking at a indicator of Nintendo's success (Their stock price, in this case). And he's shown you how it has dropped significantly over the past several years.
    I betcha looking back at pre-Wii numbers, Nintendo was doomed to fail, right?

    But....stock price as an indicator of success?
    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    You're just a hypocrite. I'm bashing Nintendo because I'm anti Nintendo, but my reasoning behind bashing them is always accurate. You should learn to do some research.
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    What do you think the price of a share of stock reflects? The number of letters in their corporate name? It's directly tied with the value of the company, it's current financial performance, and what people think is going to happen with it in the future. It's directly tied with the success of a company.

    And of course everyone is hurting in Japan right now. But he wasn't just talking about the past month, which you can't seem to understand.

    And Nintendo doomed to failure before the Wii? They were still doing very well financially thanks to years of major success with handheld gaming and the DS was pulling in record numbers for Nintendo at the time. But they weren't performing spectacularly in the home console space. Sales were down, 3rd party support was weak, two generations of Nintendo consoles had been all but dead before being replaced, and Nintendo themselves came out and said that if the GameCube's replacement didn't perform better, they were leaving the console business. If the GameCube hadn't been sold at a profit from day 1 and their own 1st party development hadn't been successful, it would've been a disaster of a console.

    But their place was never threatened. Their financials were in good shape and they were dominating handheld gaming even as their success in the world of consoles was diminishing.

    So no, they weren't doomed for failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmus View Post
    If the hardware on Wii 2 (I prefer calling it "Wiivolution" for the time being) is advanced enough, there may be no GCN compatibility unless they either make their own emulator or licence out Dolphin and convert its' code, not to mention that people possibly would ignore the B/C altogether due to its' age. Technology truly marches on, sadly.
    If IBM creates the CPU and ATI creates the GPU (Which I believe is confirmed or at least strongly rumored), there is an excellent possibility that the Wii HD will still be compatible with GameCube and Wii code.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 06-28-2011 at 04:55 AM.

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    I don't really care if the thing is backwardly compatible to GCN. I have three GCN's, a Wii, and a Panasonic Q. If I want to play Gamecube games, I think I'm safely covered.

    Even Wii backward compatibility is sort of optional for me. I mean, I DO own a Wii....

    I'm not sure when B/C became so incredibly important.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_A View Post
    What do you think the price of a share of stock reflects?
    Honestly, that depends. Price divided among how many shares? The immediate per share figure doesn't tell you anything by itself. That's like trying to express velocity as 800ft v 600ft and claiming the first is faster, but it could be that the whole story is 800ft/minute v 600ft/second. If the stock price was double years ago, but the total share volume is triple now, that's growth. Sometimes a lower buy-in is desirable, also splits.

    I don't know where the particulars fall in this case, I'm just stating that the per share price is fairly meaningless on it's own.
    Last edited by Icarus Moonsight; 04-12-2011 at 09:56 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_A View Post
    What do you think the price of a share of stock reflects? ... It's directly tied with the success of a company.
    That isn't always the case. Microsoft's revenue and profits are exponentially higher than Apple's, yet Apple's stocks are valued higher.

    The stock market is a game that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus Moonsight View Post
    the per share price is fairly meaningless on it's own.
    Exactly. Icarus beat me to it.
    Last edited by Rob2600; 04-12-2011 at 10:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob2600 View Post
    That isn't always the case. Microsoft's revenue and profits are exponentially higher than Apple's, yet Apple's stocks are valued higher.

    The stock market is a game that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.
    It's not so much that it doesn't reflect reality, it just isn't limited to CURRENT reality.

    Share prices are a function both of current performance and expected future growth. Apple is viewed as having more room to grow than Microsoft does, at least by securities analysts.

    This is why P/E ratios for small software firms are so much higher than in, say, textiles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob2600 View Post
    That isn't always the case. Microsoft's revenue and profits are exponentially higher than Apple's, yet Apple's stocks are valued higher.

    The stock market is a game that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.
    Stock prices are a reflection of a lot more information than just revenue and profits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus Moonsight View Post
    Price divided among how many shares?
    What bearing does that or the rest of your post have on the subject (I'm not even sure what you're getting at when you start talking about dividing the price of a share of stock by the number of shares, it's a meaningless number)? We're talking about the price of 1 share of stock and the downward trend of that price over the past couple of years. Nothing more, nothing less.

    As I already stated and WanganRunner supported me on, stock price reflects the percieved value of a firm (its current assets, its current financial performance, and its projected performance in the future).

    That's all I ever said and I'm shocked anyone could contest that. Despite what Press Start wants to claim, the price of a share of a stock is a good indicator of how a company is performing since it reflects what the market percieves its value to be. And if we see a downward spiral in that valuation, it isn't a large leap to suggest that they're going to be doing something to turn it around (i.e., releasing new hardware).

    Nintendo is a corporation whose task is to maximize its value for their shareholders. That means they can't stand idle as their stock price falls.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 06-28-2011 at 04:57 AM.

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    If Nintendo were to launch a Wii 2 this year, and it was a well designed machine with decent power, I think MS would be forced to fast track their next system for November 2012.
    I disagree totally and here's why: the Xbox gamer isn't an xbox gamer *just* because it was more powerful than the Wii (although that certainly helps). The xbox gamer is an xbox gamer because of games like Halo.

    Nintendo can release a machine that puts xbox graphics to shame, but if they want the xbox gamer, they need the *games*

    Nintendo's own games are brilliant in their own right, but they're not Halo. Or Fallout 3. Or Left 4 Dead. That's the stuff an xbox gamer wants. The graphics are important but the content is also important. Dark and gritty over cute and cuddly.

    MS just released the Kinect to get the casual market. If Wii 2 comes out next year, MS just has to focus on Kinect software. They can keep their hardcore audience by releasing something like Halo Reach 2
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    I think I know why a lot of people think the next Nintendo console will be like the Wii. Nintendo consoles so far tend to innovate the control scheme in 2's.

    NES introduced the D-Pad. SNES graphically enhanced the same thing the NES was doing

    N64 introduced this particular form of analog stick. Gamecube graphically enchanced games from that era.

    Wii brought motion sensing into the controller. So maybe people are right. The next step is usually to just enhance the graphics and add other small improvements.

    The generation after that will probably see the next form of innovation whatever that may be.
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    Again... Stock price has little to do with the soundness of a business, on it's own. Offering stock is a means of a business to acquire capital investment, nothing more, nothing less. Profit is the indicator of a healthy business (as long as it's reporting and dealings are honest - see Enron for details), not it's stock price (Enron had a high stock price up to the point if fell apart). It does reflect how valued the public offered shares are among investors and traders (yet *gasp* they make mistakes in value judgments!), but for a business of Nintendo's size, that is only a small part of the whole picture.

    If you are so certain about their decline, why don't you try throwing down a short against Nintendo and see what happens? It's going down right? Every analyst recommendation I can find places ADR between Hold and Strong Buy. I've yet to see one Sell recommendation, moderate or strong. Seems that many investors think it's doing fine... Makes sense to me, because if I were interested in stock at all, I'd be buying in on a dip. Seems to be right where Nintendo is at right now. A sound and historically performing company with a dipped buy-in cost. But, I don't trust this 'market', at least not enough to put any money down. Too riddled with bullshit.
    Last edited by Icarus Moonsight; 04-13-2011 at 07:33 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by icarus moonsight View Post
    again... Stock price has little to do with the soundness of a business, on it's own. Offering stock is a means of a business to acquire capital investment, nothing more, nothing less. Profit is the indicator of a healthy business (as long as it's reporting and dealings are honest - see enron for details), not it's stock price (enron had a high stock price up to the point if fell apart). It does reflect how valued the public offered shares are among investors and traders (yet *gasp* they make mistakes in value judgments!), but for a business of nintendo's size, that is only a small part of the whole picture....

    ...but, i don't trust this 'market', at least not enough to put any money down. Too riddled with bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob2600
    the stock market is a game that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.
    QFT!!!

    Now I want to add a little excerpt I found that might answer the OP's question and a few others nicely:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shigeru Miyamoto
    Well, Nintendo is a company that makes and sells games to make a profit, so we feel that we should continue to make the market expand rather than shrink. Our company president certainly feels that should be policy. To do that, there may be times that we have to take a loss when we make a new product without following the pack...to create projects that will alleviate some of the problems in the industry. To try to keep breaking new ground...(laughs)....A bit pretentious perhaps, but we think we have that sort of responsibility.

    -Gamepro Magazine, March '98, Issue 114, pg. 55
    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    You're just a hypocrite. I'm bashing Nintendo because I'm anti Nintendo, but my reasoning behind bashing them is always accurate. You should learn to do some research.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nature Boy View Post
    I disagree totally and here's why: the Xbox gamer isn't an xbox gamer *just* because it was more powerful than the Wii (although that certainly helps). The xbox gamer is an xbox gamer because of games like Halo.

    Nintendo can release a machine that puts xbox graphics to shame, but if they want the xbox gamer, they need the *games*

    Nintendo's own games are brilliant in their own right, but they're not Halo. Or Fallout 3. Or Left 4 Dead. That's the stuff an xbox gamer wants. The graphics are important but the content is also important. Dark and gritty over cute and cuddly.
    You mentioned Fallout 3 and Left 4 Dead. If Nintendo has a next-gen system they are getting ready for Fall 2012, you can bess believe that they will be getting development kits to Bethesda and Valve. Why wouldn't Bethesda port a version of Skyrim onto the Super Wii ? They could have it running in 1080p at 60fps. Same thing with Valve. When it comes time for Half-Life 3, why wouldn't it also be on Super Wii, considering that it would make an easy port, and would run even smoother than the 360/PS3 versions, plus it would look alot better running at a native 1080p.

    I think you underestimate how quickly 3rd party companies would be willing to jump onto a new machine. I'm guessing alot of the best development studios are getting just a little bit restless with not having some new hardware to tax. They are probably looking forward to see their grand visions displayed in a more convincing way. The Super Wii could provide that opportunity, by default, a full year before a Xbox 3 or PS4 .


    Quote Originally Posted by Nature Boy View Post
    MS just released the Kinect to get the casual market. If Wii 2 comes out next year, MS just has to focus on Kinect software. They can keep their hardcore audience by releasing something like Halo Reach 2

    Microsoft's bread and butter audience, are the people that play Call of Duty, Halo, Battlefield, Gears, Bulletstorm, etc, etc. These are the same early adopter, graphic lover types that bought a 360 in the Fall of 2005. Don't underestimate the early adopter from a standpoint of switching allegiances. They will go to whoever is bringing the noise so to speak. In my original post, I said that Iwata should be hand delivering Epic Games a dev. kit, and I think something like this would actually happen. Ok, maybe not Iwata, but Reggie Fils-Amie will deliver it. Nintendo has to know that they could scoop up those same early adopters that gave the 360 such a huge lift in late 2005 early 2006. The early adopters (people like me), are restless by now, and we want something new and exciting, something much more exciting than motion gaming. We want some new hardware that is capable of taking that immersion feeling to a whole new level. Microsoft has to be well aware of this, and they will surely fast-track their 720 with a Super Wii launch.

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    I'm well aware of what stock price reflects, I have my MBA.

    Did you see anywhere where I stated they're performing poorly? Their stock price had slipped over the past two years, mostly due to declining sales of the Wii and DS and projections for even further drastic drops in the future for both platforms. That's why the rumors of a Wii price drop hit today and why I'm all but certain Nintendo is going to release a new console in 2012.

    That's all I ever stated.

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    I don't doubt any of that. With the drawn correlation being (my paraphrasing to follow) that Nintendo is reading investor driven signals from the performance of their stock, I have no issue with that. Clarity achieved.


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    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...ole-at-e3.aspx

    Not entirely related to the topic but just one the many rumours that are now going around.

    Oddly I actually really like the name 'Nintendo HD'. Obviously it won't be called that but it does have a certain ring to it.

    EDIT: Official E3 twitter have talked about it http://twitter.com/#!/e3expo/status/58610927314018304

    'Course they could just be doing pre-E3 hype and know nothing but interesting none the less, and factor in the supposed price cut in May.

    2nd EDIT: http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/116/1161875p1.html Even more! Apparently we're getting a pre-announcement of some sort this month, with a reveal at E3. Time to play the waiting game I guess.
    Last edited by Swamperon; 04-14-2011 at 03:31 PM.
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    Not gonna happen. These news sites have been pulling the "Wii HD to be announced this e3!" schtick since 2007. I forsee another "M3GAT0N!!!111" event here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshnickerson View Post
    Not gonna happen. These news sites have been pulling the "Wii HD to be announced this e3!" schtick since 2007. I forsee another "M3GAT0N!!!111" event here...
    I never saw any rumors of a WiiHD from the press until now.

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