Capcom tries to kill used video game sales with the one-save game

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Bojay, While I may be generally indifferent about the actual game itself (I've played a shit ton of Mercs on RE5 and on my iPhone, so I have what I believe is an appropriate perspective on the game and what a locked-down save file means in the context of what the game offers) what I do take extraordinary issue with is the impact that the media has had on this issue and the cascading effect that it had on the gaming public.

If it's not evident I'm a very even-keel guy when it comes to how I like to digest my gaming news. I do not like needless sensationalism and I do not like divisive or biased journalism. I say leave that shit to the various nightly and/or cable news programs reporting on entertainment, politics, religion, sports, etc.. keep it out of my gaming news. This industry suffers from enough childish bias at the consumer level.

I disagree with the notion that this has been reported as some noble act intended to "protect" the gaming public. I get that I'm in the minority but I also know that I'm absolutely entitled to my opinions.

It's pretty obvious that public opinion has been swayed by (or in some cases formed entirely based on) very subjective and needlessly sensational headlines surrounding this event. Every instance of a comment response to an article that says "I'm canceling my pre-order!" or "I'm never buying another game from Capcom!" is evidence to support this.

I would much rather see the gaming public formulate their own opinions from hands-on/experiential knowledge rather than be told that Capcom is doing something "calculated" and "malicious" to them by some reporter at Kotaku or Destructoid and directly impact the sales of a game that might have been marginally successful if not for the conspiracy-bent vitriol spewed by the gaming press.

As far as your question:

...why do you see the need to keep posting in this thread?

You answered it yourself:

Because I am a person and ...

...People here and everywhere on the Internet like to complain about things that they find irritating or odd or whatever. That's what discussion boards are for.

Did you just...? Really? LMAO I didn't buy this either. Their name being on the box doesn't help, even if Playmore were 100% at fault, skipped testing and solely screwed it up. Capcom got a cut and also didn't field any obligation whatsoever IIRC. This wasn't a CDi vs Nintendo contract farce either. They could have helped, or pulled.

While I appreciate the similarities, SNK Playmore produced and published the title not Capcom.

SNK Playmore acknowledged the game breaking bug and issued a recall/replacement cartridge by mail.

The name Capcom may have been on the game, but from what I understand like all of Capcom and SNK's other historical collaborations, development teams/resources were not shared, only characters licensed. Play testing is the responsibility of the studio and the publisher, which in this case is SNK.

I'm sure Capcom wasn't pleased when they heard the news, but it wasn't their place to fix that mess.

[98PaceCar]

There's a problem with disproportionate response, though. I don't think it's a good design choice because the relationship between how useful the function can be vs. how easy it is to implement speaks for itself. I don't see the point in not providing the option. And that kind of arbitrary limitation comes off as asinine.

I don't think I've said that the current level of backlash is acceptable. Quite to the contrary I specifically said that "I don't think it's prudent to break out the torches and pitchforks". But at the same time, Frankie's declaration of "The public has spoken and Capcom has responded. Period." is equally dangerous, if not more so.

There is a middle ground and that's where we need to be. Unfortunately, the internet makes it far to easy to go into nerd rage mode when something displeasurable comes up. The normal tendency for people in our hobby will be to defend it fiercely and that's what's happening.

[Oobgarm]

There is a middle ground and that's where we need to be. Unfortunately, the internet makes it far to easy to go into nerd rage mode when something displeasurable comes up. The normal tendency for people in our hobby will be to defend it fiercely and that's what's happening.

But when something like this can set a dangerous precedent, I think that standing up and defending fiercely is a good thing.

What if companies started to sneak this very idea into their software, saying that it was just a design decision?

They need to know that gamers will not stand for that.

[Bojay1997]

Bojay, While I may be generally indifferent about the actual game itself (I've played a shit ton of Mercs on RE5 and on my iPhone, so I have what I believe is an appropriate perspective on the game and what a locked-down save file means in the context of what the game offers) what I do take extraordinary issue with is the impact that the media has had on this issue and the cascading effect that it had on the gaming public.

If it's not evident I'm a very even-keel guy when it comes to how I like to digest my gaming news. I do not like needless sensationalism and I do not like divisive or biased journalism. I say leave that shit to the various nightly and/or cable news programs reporting on entertainment, politics, religion, sports, etc.. keep it out of my gaming news. This industry suffers from enough childish bias at the consumer level.

I disagree with the notion that this has been reported as some noble act intended to "protect" the gaming public. I get that I'm in the minority but I also know that I'm absolutely entitled to my opinions.

It's pretty obvious that public opinion has been swayed by (or in some cases formed entirely based on) very subjective and needlessly sensational headlines surrounding this event. Every instance of a comment response to an article that says "I'm canceling my pre-order!" or "I'm never buying another game from Capcom!" is evidence to support this.

I would much rather see the gaming public formulate their own opinions from hands-on/experiential knowledge rather than be told that Capcom is doing something "calculated" and "malicious" to them by some reporter at Kotaku or Destructoid and directly impact the sales of a game that might have been marginally successful if not for the conspiracy-bent vitriol spewed by the gaming press.

As far as your question:



You answered it yourself:

Because I am a person and ...



While I appreciate the similarities, SNK Playmore produced and published the title not Capcom.

SNK Playmore acknowledged the game breaking bug and issued a recall/replacement cartridge by mail.

The name Capcom may have been on the game, but from what I understand like all of Capcom and SNK's other historical collaborations, development teams/resources were not shared, only characters licensed. Play testing is the responsibility of the studio and the publisher, which in this case is SNK.

I'm sure Capcom wasn't pleased when they heard the news, but it wasn't their place to fix that mess.

I guess I just don't agree that either the media or the gaming public has "overreacted". In fact, most of the gaming websites I have visited have basically just laid out what the issue is and then concluded that it's not an issue for the initial purchaser of the game but that it's something to think about for subsequent purchasers. I'm not aware of anyone calling for a general Capcom boycott or even people demanding Capcom refund their money. People are simply voting with their wallets and not buying the game at this time.

Yes, there have been a few less reputable sites that have essentially pushed a Capcom bashing agenda, but most of us are savvy enough to separate fact from raw opinion. If anything, I think too many gaming news sites have simply posted Capcom's comments on the issue without any kind of analysis or response. Maybe the issue is that there isn't some organization that is really working or advocating for gamers or consumers in this arena so the video game media doesn't really have the same ability to seek out opposing opinions to include in their news pieces like a regular newspaper or magazine covering a story would. Frankly, most video game journalism today is just reformatted press releases and media from the publishers and the occasional interview about the status of particular games in development. There isn't a whole lot of actual investigative journalism going on which I think is the biggest flaw in video games media today.

I think your belief that the only way to make a decision about something is to experience it is naive and frankly, kind of paternalistic. Most of us aren't morons. We also don't have unlimited time in the day to read reviews or speak to sales people or play demos. We also don't necessarily need to spend $40 to decide whether something is a problem or not.

Games are luxury items and like all non-essential purchases, I give some thought to them before I make a purchase, not afterwards. I suspect most other consumers do as well. People are free to develop their beliefs about products any way they like. While you and everyone else here and elsewhere is entitled to their opinions, your opinions aren't more valid or more worthy than anyone else's. If someone wants to not buy this game because they don't like the font on the cover, that's a perfectly valid basis upon which to make their decision. If you don't like the way certain sites are handling the story, feel free to ignore them. Others are free to do what they like as well.

[TonyTheTiger]

But when something like this can set a dangerous precedent, I think that standing up and defending fiercely is a good thing.

What if companies started to sneak this very idea into their software, saying that it was just a design decision?

They need to know that gamers will not stand for that.

But why now, and with this one random game, though? That's the part that hasn't been clearly explained. What makes Resident Evil special? Why is it only vaguely bad for that Super Monkey Ball game to not let you delete data, for that MGS Game Boy Color game to not let you delete saves, something to criticise the game for but otherwise move on? But why is it that all of a sudden now it's a big deal?

I will stand firm. I do not like the design choice for whatever reason they did it. It doesn't matter the reason because regardless of why they did it, the result is the same. And if I were a reviewer giving a score I'd probably make note of it as a flaw and build it into whatever voodoo calculation reviewers apply to come up with their numbers.

But...again, this is not the first time the situation has popped up. It's not the first time this particular flaw has popped up and it's certainly not the first time an annoying flaw, any flaw large or small, has shown up in an otherwise popular, otherwise good game.

If somebody could explain to me why this particular instance is special and worth "taking a stand" over while all those other games were not, then I'd be all ears.

Why is it "Take a stand against Resident Evil so others don't take it further!" and was not "Take a stand against Super Monkey Ball so others don't take it further!"?

If anybody waving flags of revolution say that speculative journalism has nothing to do with it I'll be left with no choice but to giggle. Because I think it's pretty obvious that the only reason Capcom is left holding the potato is because no alarmist articles were ever published about those other games.

For the record, I'm also all for publishers behaving reasonably. Over-aggressive DRM, abusing microtransactions, and all that are bad. But my position has ultimately been somewhat tempered in that I genuinely believe the market will handle something of this nature. If Capcom actually is doing something wrong then their product won't sell to expectations and both Capcom and other publishers will learn that lesson. Either because people don't play the games at all or because they pirate the shit out of it to circumvent whatever draconian measures are contained within. We don't need overzealous banner-waving confusing the situation.

[Oobgarm]

Because Resident Evil is a AAAAAAA title that's being hyped up a lot. I didn't hear squat about Super Monkey Ball or even Metal Gear Solid on GBC in terms of advertising or anything like that. Honestly, I was unaware of Monkey Ball on 3DS and I own the damn system.

Metal Gear was out when used game sales were starting to take off, and at the time there was no concern from any company about those sales eating into their profits.

But now, when companies are so vocal about how they dislike used sales and are implementing tactics to entice buyers to adopt at launch or just simply buy new, it's easy for any similar tactic, intentional or not, to be pinned as something in a similar vein.

And your last statement is 105% true. They just got stuck holding the bag, when it should have been mentioned earlier.

[Bojay1997]

But why now, and with this one random game, though? That's the part that hasn't been clearly explained. What makes Resident Evil special? Why is it only vaguely bad for that Super Monkey Ball game to not let you delete data, for that MGS Game Boy Color game to not let you delete saves, something to criticise the game for but otherwise move on? But why is it that all of a sudden now it's a big deal?

I will stand firm. I do not like the design choice for whatever reason they did it. It doesn't matter the reason because regardless of why they did it, the result is the same. And if I were a reviewer giving a score I'd probably make note of it as a flaw and build it into whatever voodoo calculation reviewers apply to come up with their numbers.

But...again, this is not the first time the situation has popped up. It's not the first time this particular flaw has popped up and it's certainly not the first time an annoying flaw, any flaw large or small, has shown up in an otherwise popular, otherwise good game.

If somebody could explain to me why this particular instance is special and worth "taking a stand" over while all those other games were not, then I'd be all ears.

Why is it "Take a stand against Resident Evil so others don't take it further!" and was not "Take a stand against Super Monkey Ball so others don't take it further!"?

If anybody waving flags of revolution say that speculative journalism has nothing to do with it I'll be left with no choice but to giggle. Because I think it's pretty obvious that the only reason Capcom is left holding the potato is because no alarmist articles were ever published about those other games.

I can only speak for myself, but personally, I was really looking forward to this game as the 3DS so far has been a disappointment to me. I am already familiar with the franchise and the Mercenaries component of RE5. As such, this game came with much higher hopes and expectations on my part than the other games you cited.

I would agree with you that those other games flew under the radar. The fact that SMB for the 3DS regularly sells for $20 or less (it's $16 this week at Toys R Us) and is not a game I would buy anyway is probably a big part of why I hadn't thought much about it previously. Now that I know about it, I think it's just as bad as this situation and frankly should be mentioned in those articles. Having said that, it's always easier and more relevant to get fired up about something that is brand new rather than something that has sold poorly and sells at a sharp discount less than three months after release.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Rewind for just a second here; page 2

When you save a 3DS game, does it save on the cartridge or on the system itself? It seems like there would be some way of resetting this game, if not through a menu, then by physical means.

This prompted a flashback (whoa!) from something from the DS/GBA era. There were DS to GBA passthru carts that wrote over DS saves to give you everything in certain games. This was done by using the passthru on a GBA compatible system with the DS card inserted and you would select your desired options and the unit would write to file through a GBA GUI onto the DS card. I don't foresee any reason why this couldn't be done for 3DS games in the exact same way... Dump and store or reset functions, plus loading of hacked files with full unlocks etc. The problem is you would need to buy the passthru and have access to a GBA device to clear a game save on a 3DS game that could have been handled with a few menu selections.

We're back to our regularly scheduled dialog!

Why the big deal now? Well, the climate and situation just fell into place as it did, a perfect shitstorm. There is also much consumer fear floating about in gaming right now, especially in regard with trust issues.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Rewind for just a second here; page 2



This prompted a flashback (whoa!) from something from the DS/GBA era. There were DS to GBA passthru carts that wrote over DS saves to give you everything in certain games. This was done by using the passthru on a GBA compatible system with the DS card inserted and you would select your desired options and the unit would write to file through a GBA GUI onto the DS card. I don't foresee any reason why this couldn't be done for 3DS games in the exact same way... Dump and store or reset functions, plus loading of hacked files with full unlocks etc. The problem is you would need to buy the passthru and have access to a GBA device to clear a game save on a 3DS game that could have been handled with a few menu selections.

Maybe Datel will make a 3DS Action Replay.

If they do (since they've done one for every other GB, GBA and DS I'm sure it's inevitable) that could probably be set up to wipe this pesky locked-down save file, re-lock levels or set all of the stats on the game back to zero value - on this game or any other where it's problematic for those who want to start fresh.

If they do and it does, it'll be a must-have investment for those who find these kinds of save features to get in the way of how they like to play their games.

[emceelokey]

YOu know what can completely screw up Capcom right now with this? With every retailer there's usually a 7 day exchange policy for new games meaning within 7 days you can exchange the game for another of the same. If you were to play the game for an hour and save data on the game and return it and exchange it for another one and do the same, those games with the save data on them are officially no longer in new condition and can no longer be restored to like new condition essentially making them pre owned. Now if a store ends up with 10 copies of this game where there's now save data that cannot be deleted, if they try to sell those again at regular price, they will probably get a few pissed off customers and the cycle of returns will continue and either the store is going to take an all sales final policy with that game or just send them all back to Capcom because it's going to end up costing the store.

So basically if you did end up buying this game, play it for a bit, return it, play that one for a bit and exchange it again and if you want you can sabotage Capcom's attempt to diminish used game sales.

[The 1 2 P]

Last I read yesterday was that Gamestop was actually still going to accept used copies of this game as store credit. So I guess they don't see it as big of a problem as everyone else does.

[importaku]

Maybe Datel will make a 3DS Action Replay.

If they do (since they've done one for every other GB, GBA and DS I'm sure it's inevitable) that could probably be set up to wipe this pesky locked-down save file, re-lock levels or set all of the stats on the game back to zero value - on this game or any other where it's problematic for those who want to start fresh.

If they do and it does, it'll be a must-have investment for those who find these kinds of save features to get in the way of how they like to play their games.

Don't need to wait for Datel theres already a device out there to back up & restore DS&3DS saves.
http://www.hkems.com/product/nintendo/0907.htm

[Kiddo]

Hey, folks.
I didn't look entirely through this specific thread yet, but I read about this in another forum and it prompted me to make this Satellablog article;

http://superfamicom.org/blog/2011/07...ars-about-drm/

I think the points in the article are one that aren't commonly brought up among the standard morality and economics debates, so I hope it's an interesting read for everyone here (although I think it was slightly tainted by some of the sources being shady.)

Hopefully it's constructive.

EDIT: Actually went back and read some of the thread.

Did you just...? Really? LMAO


I didn't buy this either. Their name being on the box doesn't help, even if Playmore were 100% at fault, skipped testing and solely screwed it up. Capcom got a cut and also didn't field any obligation whatsoever IIRC. This wasn't a CDi vs Nintendo contract farce either. They could have helped, or pulled.

I'll do ya better on this.

Nothing was more frustrating than me trying -not- to unlock an Akuma fight in arcade mode because it'd -crash my game and screw with my save RAM data-. WTF, Capcom?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I think that ultimately the reviews on this title are SO mediocre/middling that (as I expected) the fervor that had flared up in the community just as quickly fizzled.

Also, a Capcom spokesperson was recently quoted something along the lines of "we won't likely be seeing a save feature like this in future releases." I believe I read it on Kotaku. I'll find it later and post citation then.

So, the community's anger apparently had the desired effect, not on the existing product but on future projects.

[heybtbm]

So, the community's anger apparently had the desired effect, not on the existing product but on future projects.

It's funny how some developers can be so sensitive to the gaming community and feel like they HAVE TO change something...when the actual outrage could probably be measured in the 100's. Basically 1% of 1% of the people who ultimately bought the game.

Same thing with Infamous 2 and the "redesign" of Cole. Sucker Punch caved after a few forums and articles mocked the new look of the main character. I'm just surprised how the internet magnifies non-issues into perceived real issues...and how developers sometimes fall for it.

[digitalpress]

It's funny how some developers can be so sensitive to the gaming community and feel like they HAVE TO change something...when the actual outrage could probably be measured in the 100's. Basically 1% of 1% of the people who ultimately bought the game.

I learned a long time ago that it's that 1% that you need to listen to. Indifferent or satisfied customers tend to stay that way and offer nothing to a company's growth or improvement process. Customers that challenge you will make you think and do better next time.

Or another way to look at it is "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".

[kainemaxwell]

I can see this backfiring quickly.

[rbudrick]

Super Monkey Ball 3-D for the 3DS does not let you erase the save data. Shame, since it is a 3-hour game tops.

-Rob