Honestly, What's the Deal With Genesis Collecting?

[Glitch695]

I was inspired by the thread about SNES not picking up like NES did price wise, as far as the more uncommon games, and saw some mention of Genesis prices pretty much tanking. While many of those games have been re-released so many times as to make them pretty easy to find, it still doesn't explain why games such as, say, Shining Force 2 or Phantasy Star 4 lose so much value, even complete, when the SNES equivalents end up only going up in price.
Maybe a game like MUSHA slips by and holds or even increases, but otherwise they continue their downward spiral into bargain prices.
A thought I had earlier, might it be due to the lack of Sega hardware still being produced? Though this wouldn't explain why Saturn games hold their value so well... I don't know.
Anyways, I'd like to hear your ideas...

[Rickstilwell1]

It could be possible that the games are more common or less desirable than we thought? While Nintendo constantly woos people over with all their popular franchises, the Sega franchises other than the overdone Sonic character have been much less popular or recognizable by the masses and casual gamers. When casual gamers convert to hardcore, then to collectors; they usually first become attracted to Nintendo's cutesy characters or Playstation RPGs. Sega has become the last place newbies look, especially due to the underperformance of Sonic the Hedgehog over the last decade.

That and maybe people buy the Sonic's Ultimate Genesis collection, aren't pleased with enough games and figure the rest aren't as good or they would have made the compilation; or decide that 40 games for $20 is enough to not bother wanting the actual system.

[substantial_snake]

I'm not complaining.

If I can go on craigslist and get a box of complete-in-box non-sports games for 20 bucks along with a Genesis, 32X, cables, PW adapters, and IR controllers as a bonus I'm happy. Or even better paying 40 bucks for a box of Sega CD, Saturn, and a couple of 2600 titles with a CIB version of Snatcher I am even happier.

[Glitch695]

I'm not complaining.

If I can go on craigslist and get a box of complete-in-box non-sports games for 20 bucks along with a Genesis, 32X, cables, PW adapters, and IR controllers as a bonus I'm happy. Or even better paying 40 bucks for a box of Sega CD, Saturn, and a couple of 2600 titles with a CIB version of Snatcher I am even happier.

You are also someone I want to sneak up on and strangle and take your Snatcher manual
But I know, I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, just one that I find a bit odd when compared to other systems of around the same time.

[j_factor]

I think there's a lot of little contributing factors.

There's no new Shining Force. Shining Force 1 and 2 and CD were worth a bit more back in 2004-05, when Shining Force was ported to GBA and Shining Force Neo came out for PS2 (although it's not a "real" Shining Force game). You see old games go up and down in value like this all the time. Nintendo and Square Enix are hot shit right now, so their old games aren't going down.

All the compilations, like you said. Who wants to pay $40 for an old RPG when it's available on a disc I can pick up at Gamestop for like ten bucks?

I don't have numbers to back it up, but I'm pretty sure Shining Force, Phantasy Star IV, and LandStalker sold significantly better than the likes of EarthBound. In fact I'd go so far as to say Sega's RPGs in general were more popular at the time, save Final Fantasy. The Genesis RPGs were (relatively) well-promoted games, with pretty accessible gameplay and style. They weren't arcane or "too Japanese", or released by a little-known publisher.

The types of games that we're talking about, on SNES, tend to be later releases, as compared to Genesis. Nothing like Harvest Moon was coming out for Genesis in 1997. Instead, Genesis got The Lost World. Which is a good game, but it's an action game, and a movie license, and published by Sega. Harvest Moon was an unknown name, with an unknown type of gameplay, by a fairly unknown publisher at the time. The Lost World is still worth a bit more than the average Genesis game, owing to its late release. But Harvest Moon is worth tons more.

Finally, Genesis games are much more easily found complete. SNES boxes felt very throwaway, and so were often thrown away. I know the OP doesn't talk about completeness, but I think this has an overall distorting effect on pricing.

[Rickstilwell1]

I think there's a lot of little contributing factors.

There's no new Shining Force. Shining Force 1 and 2 and CD were worth a bit more back in 2004-05, when Shining Force was ported to GBA and Shining Force Neo came out for PS2 (although it's not a "real" Shining Force game). You see old games go up and down in value like this all the time. Nintendo and Square Enix are hot shit right now, so their old games aren't going down.

All the compilations, like you said. Who wants to pay $40 for an old RPG when it's available on a disc I can pick up at Gamestop for like ten bucks?

I don't have numbers to back it up, but I'm pretty sure Shining Force, Phantasy Star IV, and LandStalker sold significantly better than the likes of EarthBound. In fact I'd go so far as to say Sega's RPGs in general were more popular at the time, save Final Fantasy. The Genesis RPGs were (relatively) well-promoted games, with pretty accessible gameplay and style. They weren't arcane or "too Japanese", or released by a little-known publisher.

The types of games that we're talking about, on SNES, tend to be later releases, as compared to Genesis. Nothing like Harvest Moon was coming out for Genesis in 1997. Instead, Genesis got The Lost World. Which is a good game, but it's an action game, and a movie license, and published by Sega. Harvest Moon was an unknown name, with an unknown type of gameplay, by a fairly unknown publisher at the time. The Lost World is still worth a bit more than the average Genesis game, owing to its late release. But Harvest Moon is worth tons more.

Finally, Genesis games are much more easily found complete. SNES boxes felt very throwaway, and so were often thrown away. I know the OP doesn't talk about completeness, but I think this has an overall distorting effect on pricing.

Exactly, CIB games are easier to keep around on Genesis (unless they're the cardboard releases), so supply CIB is greater, and demand doesn't overtake it. The lack of extra demand for Genesis CIB means even less demand for cart only. This makes cart only Genesis extremely cheap in comparison.

It's why I can't even seem to sell my disc only PS1 games (even though I bought them not caring about them being CIB at the time). Dammit I want my money back.

[Nz17]

1. SEGA's out of the hardware business unlike the other two of the day (Nintendo and SONY). SEGA released a lot of unpopular hardware before its fall and it left people with bad feelings because of that.
2. After being acquired by Sammy, the quality of SEGA's games diminished as its talents left.
3. Both the SNES and Genesis were extremely popular, so there are lots of their games in homes, retro stores, and online.
4. Saturn and Dreamcast collectors felt their consoles were cut down early while still in their prime. A lot of Japanese games were released for both consoles years after the US operations were closed down. These two combined to give plenty of reason for those gamers to keep collecting and keep their collections.
5. Genesis games tended to be speedier and sometimes more action-filled with larger graphics and more sprites than the SNES games; however, technically, the SNES had a much wider range of color, both possible and simultaneous, and the sound was overall better on the SNES. This tends to, with slower paced games such as RPGs, provide a higher quality experience outside of the character and story developments.
6. While plenty of people grew up with SEGA, plenty more grew up with Nintendo.
7. SEGA's only strong, long-lasting brand that it still tries with is Sonic The Hedgehog. Everything else which was once well-known (Alex Kidd, Shinobi, Shining RPGs, Phantasy Star, Toejam & Earl, Columns, Shenmue, Virtua Fighter, Fighting Vipers, Panzer Dragoon, Oasis RPGs, Sakura Wars, etc.) either doesn't receive any sequels anymore or they are half-hearted either in production or promotion.

The first ones have severely lessened the presence of SEGA in gamers' minds, III makes the Genesis games common and still cheaper than the SNES games because of "Nintendo love" and "old Squaresoft love," and IV tends to cause the range of neophyte classic collectors to gravitate toward the better looking/sounding games. What V means is that while arguable SEGA "owned" the 16-bit era, Nintendo has always been popular with families and it dominated the 8-bit era, shared the 16-bit era's top place toward the end, and persisted in the homes of families during the 32/64-bit, 128-bit, and today. So while Nintendo's hardware and libraries are not as popular among the "core" gamers, the nostalgic collectors of classic tend to remember Nintendo and its games. They will often seek out not just their generation's games, but those of one or two gens earlier or later.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

The Sega brand name is gradually diminishing. I suspect a lot of the gamers entering the collector market have never even played a Sega machine.

A lot of people became Sega fans because of the Genesis(like me). I don't know a lot of Sega fans who got into it because of the other Sega consoles.

With Nintendo, you have constant replenishment of the fan base because they still produce consoles and games. They also have a lot of kids playing their systems, which makes them lifelong fans. Ultimately, this affects the resale value of ALL Nintendo games.

[swlovinist]

I think that Sega is going to follow a path like the intellivision. It will have a smaller but loyal following of collectors. I dont mind at all

[Gameguy]

It really depends on the games, some are going up in price on the Genesis if you're looking at complete copies. Fewer people collect loose carts on the Genesis, I mostly avoid loose games unless they're really high demand titles.

A loose Phantasy Star IV-$5
http://item.ebay.com/270802646119

A complete Phantasy Star IV-$45
http://item.ebay.com/120767126571


It's really all on condition. Of course, compilations and re-releases are a big reason why the prices are going down. That's what happened with Final Fantasy VII. It seems when the few SNES games do get ported, they get screwed over in some way so the original is still desirable. I can't remember the specific titles right now but some games ported to the Gameboy Advance weren't done right, I know the Earthworm Jim games were like this as I noticed errors with my copies that weren't in the original versions. Even so I notice plenty of SNES games are dropping in price unless you're looking at complete copies, Chrono Trigger used to be a $60 game and now it's around $40. Same with Secret of Mana and Super Mario RPG, they used to be really expensive loose.

I'm just looking up Secret of Mana now and some auctions are ending at $20 loose, this used to be a $60 game and I thought it was just lowering to $30 recently. This is new to me, I really never saw it selling this cheap before.
http://item.ebay.com/260848636920
http://item.ebay.com/260847894147

Complete it's around $50, which is still less than I saw it sell for loose around 10 years ago.
http://item.ebay.com/130572904676


The thing is there are valuable Genesis games, they just aren't all RPGs. The system was never really known for a vast library of RPGs but other exclusives are worth quite a bit. I'm just going by auctions, some buy-it-nows sold for more. The SNES system is what RPG lovers are into, the Genesis is basically for everything else. Plus it is generally easier to find complete Genesis titles compared to SNES titles because of the plastic casing, that would keep some of the prices lower.

Complete Crusader of Centy-$95
http://item.ebay.com/280693151812

Complete The Punisher-$65
http://item.ebay.com/190567812822

Complete Splatterhouse 3-$65
http://item.ebay.com/260845800118

Complete Splatterhouse 2-$60
http://item.ebay.com/260845795103

Complete Aerobiz Supersonic-$50
http://item.ebay.com/150632495813

Complete Sparkster-$50
http://item.ebay.com/330595792847

Also, I think a lot of good games aren't going that high because most of the average games are still cheaper than SNES games when loose. Most loose SNES commons are still worth around $5-$10, with loose Genesis commons most are worth around $2-$5. Who is going to pay big bucks on a desirable but still pretty common title when other commons of about the same rarity are going for less than $5? I collect Genesis games and I'm surprised by most of these now high prices, before looking these up I thought most would just be cheap games and wouldn't pay much for them. I do think Genesis prices are going to go up soon even higher, though I'd really prefer them to stay cheap so I can keep buying them.

[Tron 2.0]

I just want to get a genesis again becuase i miss playing those games on it's original hardware.Sure compilations such as the ultimate sonic genesis collections have made it easy for me,but it is not every thing and it does 'lack of having a good deal of third party games on it.Not to mention it doesn't feel right to me not able to use a genesis controller on it.Beside 'hearing it here people have been telling me that prices have dropped for used genesis games.I hope it stays that way for a while so i can get it all again.

Far as what people have mention here about genesis games loseing value i agree.Nintendo has it's fanbase still and for any one that grew up on the nes&snes still have that nostalgia for it's console and games hence,having that demand still.Sega did have that at one time...but not any more they are not some brand name like they use to be in the 90's.

[Ze_ro]

Buy games cheap, play them and have fun. I like Genesis.

--Zero

[Sunnyvale]

Prices tanking?!? Maybe on the common-rares (Phantasy Star, Shining Force TJ&E), but the rare games are getting more than they were last year. I saw the 2 gun Lethal Enforcers Boxed set fetching less than $20 last year. You could by a tested, working Genesis 3 last year from a reputable seller for $20 tops. Sega collecting is picking up, not dying down. It's not a Genesis, but look at what has happened to the price of SMS games in the last few months. I've sold more Genesis consoles this year than any other except N64's. Last year I bought a complete New Horizons on ebay on a BiN for $20ish, from a good seller, shipped. Find me that deal today.

[portnoyd]

Genesis prices have always been flat. Some titles pip up, some titles pip down but in a lot of cases, they will almost always return to low value. Overall, the system value is still low. The recent spikes may indicate it finally catching fire so if you're looking to get in, now is the time.

A lot of the reasons mentioned in this thread do not explain the OP's observations.

The reason goes back to the source: Funcoland. Funco, for whatever reason, priced Genesis games less than SNES in general. When collecting was starting to grow 10+ years ago, collectors used those prices to gauge value. So from the inception, collectors were programmed to see Genesis as less value. And, as I've learned from NES, a lot of perceptions of rarity and value that we see today were born from the Funco era. It's just a stigma that Genesis has never been able to shake.

[The Dord]

Well it just means that its going to be easier to start collecting for the Genesis. I like the prices I'm seeing for the games

[final fight cd]

are you really upset because you aren't paying an arm and a leg for amazing games to play?

i don't collect video games because i see it as an investment. i do it because it is fun. and i'm not questioning or complaining one bit about genesis not having ridiculous prices. the lower they are the better.

[Glitch695]

are you really upset because you aren't paying an arm and a leg for amazing games to play?

i don't collect video games because i see it as an investment. i do it because it is fun. and i'm not questioning or complaining one bit about genesis not having ridiculous prices. the lower they are the better.

Not sure where you hallucinated up me being upset, but discussion of game prices and the market for collecting them is part and parcel of this board and the classic game community in general. If you don't find 'questioning' Genesis game prices to be interesting discussion, stay out of the thread.

Anyways, I just dug out an old Funcoland ad and they sure did price everything low, with the exception of, of course, the Phantasy Star/ Shining anything/ TJ&E/ etc, which are anywhere from $30 to $80. Though also of note on this particular ad is the .49 cents they ask for Little Samson.

I put it to a combination of Funcoland, and Nz17 and Jfactor's explanations. I went to a Goodwill today and saw a total of 2 SNES games, cart only, but 6 boxed Genesis games! Heading over the Salvation Army, they too had 4 CIB Genesis titles, and neither store had a single loose Genny cart. They were all sports titles to be sure, but the fact that the Genesis ones were all complete speaks volumes about the rarity/ availability of CIB games for that system.

And yeah did Sparkster ever shoot up. Cripes.

[Tron 2.0]

And yeah did Sparkster ever shoot up. Cripes.

I've notice that as well i'm debating if i bother getting it cib or loose.

[joshnickerson]

Because Ninten-does what Seg-can't. j/k

Portnoyd's theory is pretty sound, actually. It could also be the fact that the Genesis was mostly seen as the "sports console", since most of the Genny games I come across tend to be of the Madden variety.

Of course, it also means there are lots of great games that can be had for little cash. That's always good!

[xelement5x]

Yeah, I'll never complain about getting Genesis games for cheap. It's one thing that makes collecting for this system so much fun. $20 can get me a bunch of Genny games CIB, and I can spend the next week or so going through them and playing them. Whereas for $20 on the SNES I'm lucky if I can get one game CIB, and it's probably a third rate title like Chester Cheetah which is sun faded.

Saturn and DC is a bit pricey, but there's not much you can do about it now except hunt Craigslist and forums.