Genesis and SNES sound chip strengths and weaknesses

[Wraith Storm]

I have heard tons of arguments over the years from people saying that Genesis music is better than Super Nes music or vice versa. There have been countless threads compiling "Bad Ass" game music that is "way better than anything the other system has to offer".

I have also seen plenty of threads comparing songs from the same games on each system, but I rarely find that to be a convincing argument. Usually one of the systems was the primary development system and then the game just gets ported to the other. I don't think any company was a master of both Genesis and Snes and put an equal amount of effort into developing the same games for each systems strengths.

I really, Really, REALLY love Genesis music and will defend it to my grave, but I also can't deny that the Snes gave me some of the most beautiful, moving, unforgettable soundtracks of all time.

I saw a thread a while back where a someone mentioned that the Genesis doesen't have anything that can compete with some Snes songs like Final Fantasy 3's Phantom Forest and some of Chrono Triggers stuff. As much as I hated to admit it, he was absolutely correct.

It got me really thing about the strengths and weaknesses of both the Genesis and Snes sound chips. Here is what I personally feel after years of jamming to Genesis and Snes music.

I feel the Genesis really excels at Techno, Dance and Metal music. Especially when the composer is using a custom sound driver. This, I’m sure, is due to the nature of the systems Yamaha synthesizer sound chip. But other styles of music fall far behind. Sure there are always exceptions and lots of other music that sounds good on the Genesis, but I feel it does Techno, Dance and Metal far better than anything else it has to offer and better than the Snes can. One thing is for certain however, no matter what kind music is pumping out of the Genesis, it has a cold, mechanical feel to it. It always sounds like computerized chip music, again, because of the YM synth chip.

The Super Nes seems to perform just about all types of music very well, but it really shines with ambient and orchestral music, something that the Genesis just can't compete with. On the flip side, I know that I am not the only person to feel that a lot of the Snes music sounds a bit muffled. It still sounds great, but its as if there is a thin pillow over the speaker. As a result I have never heard a Snes game sound as clean and clear as a Genesis game (voice samples aside ). Oddly, no matter what kind of music the Snes is playing it always has a soft warm feeling to it. Even if its just a thin layer surrounding the song. One thing is for certain, it doesn’t have the cold, mechanical feel that the Genesis has.

So what I would like to achieve in this thread are links to videogame music that you feel best represent the Genesis and Snes sound chips. Good music is good music, but that’s not why I created this thread. I am looking for stuff that plays the strengths of the systems sound chip and one that you think the other system would have a hard time replicating.

Also I would like to link to songs that challenge common misconceptions. Are there Snes games that can produce clear, deep, heavy bass as good as the Genesis? Is there any Genesis game that can perform ambient or orchestral music to give the Snes a run for its money?

I don't want this to become a generic "best of music" thread, because that is ultimately in the ear of the beholder.

Let’s make this as informative as possible and give reasons for your selected songs. I want this to be a knowledge base of sorts for what these sound chips were and were no so capable of.

Streets of Rage 2 - We'll start with a classic one. Despite plagiarizing the Enigma song Sadeness it is an amazing feat of programming. Deep, clear bass, smooth beats, very crisp snare drum. This is what the Genesis sound chip was meant for and I don't think the Snes can replicate the bass or clarity of the song.

Streets of Rage 3 - The music is nowhere near as catchy as the first two game but that doesn't mean its any less impressive. The first time I heard this I couldn't believe it was coming out of my Genesis. Like the music on the first level, this sounded like something I would hear at a rave. This stuff is VERY high quality. After all these years It still blows me away. It sounds like something from Saturn or Playstation. I don't think the Snes could touch this song or soundtrack.

Adventures of Batman and Robin - Here is another track. Both these songs have amazing use of stereo direction, crisp snares, a clean sound and apparently did not use the PSG chip at all. Another example of where the YM chip dominates.

Plok - Until a few days ago I didn't think the Snes had anything that could stand up to the Genesis as far as techno is concerned. I just discovered this song and found it to be extremely impressive. There is a lot going on here with voice samples, decent thumping bass, some cool stereo direction and just overall a catchy composition. This song could potentially give the old Genesis a run for it's money if not for the entire thing sounding muffled. It just doesn't have the clarity and punch of the Genesis, but regardless its some impressive stuff that the Genesis would probably struggle with. Like the voice samples for instance, but where the music itself is concerned the Genesis could handle it no problem.

Final Fantasy 3 - The Genesis just can't do orchestral pieces. It could probably do a decent job at some of the simpler pieces like this. Comix Zone showed us the Genny could do some decent acoustic guitar sounds and we know it could handle the bass plucks, but it would certainly not sound as rich or as full bodied. The complaint some people have about the Genesis sounding "tinny"... I think that description would apply here if we ever heard a Genesis version.

Okay. I have spent the last three hours typing this. It's time for me to sleep, but I will add some more examples later and will be cross posting this on Sega-16 and possibly some other sites.

As I said earlier, let's try and be professional, informative and as non biased as possible here. I look forward to other examples!

[Sabz5150]

Steel Empire. That one really shows off the ability of the Genesis to make good music. The tracks are great and they don't all "sound the same". They also fit their respective stages quite well. Most of them also sound more instrumental than electronic.

[Cloud121]

Streets of Rage 2 - We'll start with a classic one. Despite plagiarizing the Enigma song Sadeness it is an amazing feat of programming. Deep, clear bass, smooth beats, very crisp snare drum. This is what the Genesis sound chip was meant for and I don't think the Snes can replicate the bass or clarity of the song.

Wow, I never noticed that. Having just discovered Enigma a year ago (My oldest friend of 17 years and I were on a nostalgia kick, listening to music from our childhoods), the similarities are there.

To quote my best friend: "It's like it's having sex with your brain!"

[Atari 5200]

Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Sonic & Knuckles. I've always noticed that these games sound nothing like the typical "genesis sound". The music is just so unlike so many genesis games, these pop up every time I hear crappy genesis music and wonder WTF? They sound clean, original, and always catchy.

Flying Battery Zone, Metropolis Zone, Chemical Plant...I could go on and on.

[Wraith Storm]

Steel Empire. That one really shows off the ability of the Genesis to make good music. The tracks are great and they don't all "sound the same". They also fit their respective stages quite well. Most of them also sound more instrumental than electronic.

Awesome game. I always loved Steel Empire and thought it was among the best shooters on the Genesis. Similar to Wings of Wor, Steel Empire breaks away from the usual sci-fi space opera shooters. Its steam punk setting is still unique almost 20 years later... but as much as I played the game I don't remember the music really standing out in any way.

Looks like I now have a good reason to replay it.

Wow, I never noticed that. Having just discovered Enigma a year ago (My oldest friend of 17 years and I were on a nostalgia kick, listening to music from our childhoods), the similarities are there.

To quote my best friend: "It's like it's having sex with your brain!"

Here is a really good video where they play both SOR2 and Sadeness on top of each other.

Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Sonic & Knuckles. I've always noticed that these games sound nothing like the typical "genesis sound". The music is just so unlike so many genesis games, these pop up every time I hear crappy genesis music and wonder WTF? They sound clean, original, and always catchy.

Flying Battery Zone, Metropolis Zone, Chemical Plant...I could go on and on.

The compositions are excellent. Especially when you have a band like "Dreams Come True" compose the sound track for the first 2 games. The quality of the compositions however, I don't think are anything that special. Like you say, they certainly don't sound like most other Genesis games, but I don't think I have ever paused and said "Wow! I can't believe my Genesis is playing this song." As far as song composition, they are some of the best on the Genesis. They just aren't as technically accomplished as some other Genesis music.

[Aussie2B]

Keep in mind, guys, people make music, not hardware. If you think a game/system has good music, you have the composer/s to thank much, MUCH more than the hardware. Composers have created amazing music on weaker hardware, and composers have made trash even on current systems. If someone's argument is that Genesis doesn't have anything like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger, then, well yeah, because I don't believe Uematsu or Mitsuda ever did a Genesis soundtrack. There are some composers that worked with both, but many didn't. Even if a composer did, they often were more comfortable with one over the other.

In terms of hardware capabilities, they produce their audio in very different ways. The SNES simply plays back samples, while the Genesis actively modulates the frequencies. The FM synth of the Genesis allows for sounds that are more organic, which is great for bass and percussion. Its meatier, punchier sound isn't particularly beneficial to orchestral scores, true.

[old man]

Light Crusader by treasure has some really nice orchestral sounding tunes in it. There is a ton of good music for the Genesis though. I think, generally, that devs who had previous experience in arcade games had a more consistent track record for making good sounding games. Most of the 80's early 90's arcade boards used FM chips like the Genesis. So experience counts.

On the SNES MegaManX's sound track had a really inspired synth rock sound to it. I think it held it's own against some of Techno Soft's best on the Genesis. It's a shame the music seemed to get worse and worse with the sequels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkGroUOEsk

[j_factor]

I feel the Genesis really excels at Techno, Dance and Metal music.

The Super Nes shines with ambient and orchestral music

This sums it up pretty well, and also sums up why I strongly prefer the Genesis sound. With all due respect to Brian Eno, ambient puts me to sleep. It may be perfectly fitting during a game, but it's not the type of thing I would ever go out of my way to listen to. Same goes for orchestral. John Williams makes wonderful film scores, but I'm not putting them on my playlist.

So while I think the SNES has plenty of good-sounding games, it has very little of what I would call great music. On another board there's a thread asking for one's top 100 songs from games (all systems/eras), and I'm still working on my list, but so far I have a lot more Genesis than SNES on there. Of course, that isn't exactly the hardware's fault, but the hardware has a part in it.

[Bloodreign]

If you've listened to Darius 2/Sagaia on the Genesis, you swear it's like an orgasm in a cart, the music IMO is that good when done by the right people.

[Wraith Storm]

Keep in mind, guys, people make music, not hardware. If you think a game/system has good music, you have the composer/s to thank much, MUCH more than the hardware. Composers have created amazing music on weaker hardware, and composers have made trash even on current systems. If someone's argument is that Genesis doesn't have anything like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger, then, well yeah, because I don't believe Uematsu or Mitsuda ever did a Genesis soundtrack. There are some composers that worked with both, but many didn't. Even if a composer did, they often were more comfortable with one over the other.

I completely agree. To repeat part of my OP.

Good music is good music, but that’s not why I created this thread. I am looking for stuff that plays the strengths of the systems sound chip and one that you think the other system would have a hard time replicating.

So, I am not really looking for a masterpiece of a song. I am looking for music that has sounds and effects that REALLY shine. Although if the song happens to be a masterpiece as well then that's awesome!

Also I would like to link to songs that challenge common misconceptions. Are there Snes games that can produce clear, deep, heavy bass as good as the Genesis? Is there any Genesis game that can perform ambient or orchestral music to give the Snes a run for its money?

I never used to think the Genesis could do good ambient music, but over on Sega-16 they have linked to some good stuff. Some of them have VERY impressive sounds that I didn't think were possible on the Genesis.

There are even a few songs that have been quite impressive as far as orchestral stuff is concerned, but still nothing to match the Snes.

If you've listened to Darius 2/Sagaia on the Genesis, you swear it's like an orgasm in a cart, the music IMO is that good when done by the right people.

I love Darius games but I never liked Sagaia. I dont think I have ever pushed myself past the second stages, so I never really had a chance to listen to much of the sound track. What was impressive about it? The instrument sets? The bass?

Remember, I am not looking for solely good compositions. I am looking for good technical display, or rather sound. As with Steel Empire, looks like I have some gaming to do.


Also, I am not as well versed in Snes music. Lets get some more technically impressive Snes stuff on here. I thought Plok has some impressive stuff. What Snes music has the most impressive bass? What Snes game has an amazing sounding electric guitar? Are there really good snare drums on the Snes and how do they compare to some of the top Genesis snares?

C'mon lets get this ball rolling!

[Wraith Storm]

Okay. Here is some more Genesis showmanship.

Vapor Trail - Almost as famous as the streets of Rage music and for a good reason. The drums sound like they were recorded in a studio from the snares to the symbols these are some of the best drums I have ever heard on the Genesis. Lets not forget that electric guitar. While it doesn't quite sound like the real thing, its pretty frakin incredible, and until yesterday it was the best I had ever heard on the Genesis or even Snes for that matter.

Ristar - This totally blows me away. The Genesis has always excelled at drums, but usually its snares. This is very unique in the way it uses the snares and several layers of bass to produce a sound I have never heard on the Genesis. The phrase "The sum is greater than it's parts" comes to mind.

Time Trax - Until yesterday I had never heard of this game or it's music. The Genesis sound chip never fails to impress me. Just when I thought I had heard the best electric guitar with Vapor Trail, a guy posts this at Sega-16 and now my mind is blown. This guitar sounds better and crisper than anything else I have heard on the Genesis and Snes. The entire song is simply a masterpiece.

[Berserker]

This sums it up pretty well, and also sums up why I strongly prefer the Genesis sound. With all due respect to Brian Eno, ambient puts me to sleep. It may be perfectly fitting during a game, but it's not the type of thing I would ever go out of my way to listen to.

The bulk of Eno's most well-known ambient work was made primarily with FM synthesis.

It's interesting that its use in the Genesis is being associated here with adjectives normally used to describe analog synthesis (meaty, organic, etc), whereas in the synth world it's typically viewed as the exact opposite - metallic and digital, having a very "80s" sound, most commonly used in genres like ambient and new wave.

I think both views are correct. It's a very deep and versatile type of synthesis, but notoriously difficult to program.

[j_factor]

The bulk of Eno's most well-known ambient work was made primarily with FM synthesis.

He used some FM synth, but I wouldn't particularly associate his work with it. He used a lot of tape loops, samples of random sounds, acoustic piano, analog synth, string instruments, etc. I don't think Ambient 1-4 contain any FM synth. 4 might.

It's interesting that its use in the Genesis is being associated here with adjectives normally used to describe analog synthesis (meaty, organic, etc), whereas in the synth world it's typically viewed as the exact opposite - metallic and digital, having a very "80s" sound, most commonly used in genres like ambient and new wave.

I agree with the metallic and digital part. FM synth was commonly used in industrial rock, techno, house, and freestyle (as well as new wave and synthpop). I wouldn't say organic, but I definitely associate it with music that has either a strong dance beat or a hard rock element.

[Berserker]

He used some FM synth, but I wouldn't particularly associate his work with it. He used a lot of tape loops, samples of random sounds, acoustic piano, analog synth, string instruments, etc. I don't think Ambient 1-4 contain any FM synth. 4 might.

Looks like you're right there. I guess I've always held a strong association between him and the Yamaha DX7 in particular.

[BetaWolf47]

I rather like the Genesis soundtrack of Truxton. Here's the first level music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHvg5Ert2wU

[Sabz5150]

Awesome game. I always loved Steel Empire and thought it was among the best shooters on the Genesis. Similar to Wings of Wor, Steel Empire breaks away from the usual sci-fi space opera shooters. Its steam punk setting is still unique almost 20 years later... but as much as I played the game I don't remember the music really standing out in any way.

First thing that comes to mind when I play SE is Jules Verne. Gotta respect a game that can conjure up such thoughts because few can.

The music itself is simply excellent. It shies away from the electronica and heavy metal and strays more into the "what-was-back-then-the-future" style music... big with a decent amount of brass and wind in the forefront.

If you want to see the electronica/metal music at its best... Thunder Force IV (Lightening Force). Want some headbanging to go with that? Crue Ball.

[Aussie2B]

The bulk of Eno's most well-known ambient work was made primarily with FM synthesis.

It's interesting that its use in the Genesis is being associated here with adjectives normally used to describe analog synthesis (meaty, organic, etc), whereas in the synth world it's typically viewed as the exact opposite - metallic and digital, having a very "80s" sound, most commonly used in genres like ambient and new wave.

I think both views are correct. It's a very deep and versatile type of synthesis, but notoriously difficult to program.

Diehard synth guys can also often be incredibly full of themselves, haha, and they'll arbitrarily come up with instruments/brands/etc. to turn their noses up to.

That fact that people would think that the SNES, in comparison, has a thinner, tinnier sound shows that the Genesis's FM synth is meatier and more organic, but I'm definitely not the one to come up with those adjectives. Many game composers have talked about FM synth in the same way, as well as plenty of other musicians.

I wonder if maybe it's a difference between Japanese and Western composers. The Japanese usually embrace the technology, but it seems like Western game composers from back then were a bunch of malcontents. When they talk about working back then, they just whine about how limited they were and such. It would make sense to me if the Japanese would speak of FM synth in more favorable terms, while Westerners would use adjectives that could be construed as negative. I guess Japanese composers are more likely to have wanted to be game composers, while a lot of Westerners just see it as something to do until they land a gig in film, for which they can use full orchestras or bands rather than work within computer technology.

[tom]

To me both make good music/sounds, but basically I prefer computer-made music/sound fx, eg Pokey.

[allyourblood]

Phantasy Star II has some wonderful tunes. This one in particular always gives me chills. I've always thought it sounded haunting and melancholy -- almost despondent. It's not really giving the FM chip much of a workout, but the "flam" effect on the drums coupled with that wonderful FM bell or vibe tone gets me every time. If I close my eyes, this track feels like it would fit in one of the Silent Hill games.

[Bloodreign]

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I love Darius games but I never liked Sagaia. I dont think I have ever pushed myself past the second stages, so I never really had a chance to listen to much of the sound track. What was impressive about it? The instrument sets? The bass?

Remember, I am not looking for solely good compositions. I am looking for good technical display, or rather sound. As with Steel Empire, looks like I have some gaming to do.

Instrument sets are very nice sounding remarkably close to the arcade version, and lots of bass from the games explosions, you actually recognize that Zuntata did the soundtrack (IIRC Hisayoshi Ogura). The games music doesn't sound scratchy, save for the voice effects, it's quite a nice sounding game.