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Thread: So, what do you consider to be "retro" or "old school" gaming?

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) Manga4life's Avatar
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    So, after surveying the responses to my original post it would appear that a good chunk of people consider anything after the PS1/N64 era to be "modern", or in short it seems that it's a general 2 generations back kind of thing. VERY interesting responses though, lot's to think about on my end, but I think that anything PS1/N64 or below could be considered "classic gaming" while anything NES and below could be considered "retro gaming".

    Still, awesome feedback by the members here on this subject, hence why I created it to begin with. You all rock!
    Blog - Latest entry 4/13/13: CLASSIC GAMING, Discovering new gems is the funnest part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus Moonsight View Post
    I tend to think the distinction is best exemplified by a games gameplay type and/or visual style rather than a hardware/platform cutoff.
    This. Hardware differences and style differences have shown this to be true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manga4life View Post
    Still, awesome feedback by the members here on this subject, hence why I created it to begin with. You all rock!
    Heh, you're lucky it hasn't turned into a heated argument. There are a lot of gamers that get up in arms if anyone tries to apply "classic" to anything other than pre-crash games.

    As for myself, I think it's silly to call anything but the current systems "modern". If a system is completely dead, no way is it modern in my eyes. I prefer to think of things more as retro/classic gaming rather than defining what is or isn't a retro/classic game. I'd feel a little weird calling something on PS2 or whatever "retro", but if I tell someone that I'm a retro gamer, I'd expect them to take that as meaning that I tend to play older games, which can range from the oldest of games to the previous generation.

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    i would say Dreamcast is pushing it, but anything before that

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    If you're asking for "retro gaming", that's tougher. For me though, Classic Gaming got a great definition in 2001 that I use to this day. And, it's what we use as the official definition for the Midwest Gaming Classic... I need to tell a short story though.

    We were having a lot of trouble trying to figure out where to cut off the 2002 show. We wanted to do a "classic" gaming show. There was the feeling that classic should be anything 2D or earlier only. Then, there was the feeling that it should include newer systems like the Saturn and PS1. Another school of thought was making it 8-bit and earlier.

    I decided to ask my cousin, who was about eight at the time, what he thought was a classic game. After a few moments of thought, he very earnestly said, "Sonic Adventure for the Dreamcast." I had to ask, why that game -- it wasn't that old? His response was that it was an older game (to an 8 year old, a 2 year old game is quite a long time...) and that he always had great memories of coming to my house and playing it.

    I realized *that* was the key. A game is classic when the person playing it has great memories of playing it that makes it classic. It doesn't matter if the game just came out, if you have fun playing it in a way that it will be truly memorable, then that is a classic game.

    I still use that definition to this day. Classic is in the eye of the beholder, and instead of trying to pick out exactly what is and isn't a classic, let's celebrate what everyone thinks is a classic, even if it appears to be modern to us
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    We're six years and another generation on.

    I would now consider the 7th /128-bit/PS2 generation classic. That means the PS2, Xbox, and GameCube. The Dreamcast has long been considered classic.

    This generation, the 9th, started around 2013.

    Sony has the PS4, Microsoft the Xbox One, and Nintendo the Wii U and Switch.
    (The Switch has been out for almost a year and no PS5 / Xbox whatever's-next has been announced yet. I think it's safe to say that they're not coming till 2019 or later. I would guess 2020 or 2021)

    The previous (8th) generation is dead.
    PS3 was discontinued October 2016, Xbox 360 April 2016, and Wii is an interesting case.

    Wikipedia says the Wii Mini is still in production, but I haven't seen Wii-anything on sale at GameStop, Wally World, etc, and (https://www.statista.com/statistics/...console-sales/) says that no Wiis were sold after March 2016. No games have come out for the Wii in America since November 2015, with the exception of two Just Dance installments.

    Still, I wouldn't call it classic yet. Classic, to me, is generally when a system is two generations out of date, or has had no new games for five years.

    The last USA PS2 game was FIFA 14, on September 24, 2013. But in its case, this is a system that peaked in the 2001-2006 era, and its last good year for games was 2009. It got a dwindling trickle of shovelware, cheap licensed games and watered down sports updates from 2010-2013. I would say it was right around 2014 or so that the PS2 went classic. At that point, the current 9th gen systems were out, the 8th gen systems were on the decline, and the PS2 hadn't got any A titles in five years.

    For the original Xbox, it had Madden NFL 09 on August 12, 2008. August 12, 2013 seems about right for the time it went classic.

    The GameCube's last game was (surprise, surprise) Madden NFL 08 on August 14, 2007, which gives us a date of August 14, 2012.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WelcomeToTheNextLevel View Post
    Classic, to me, is generally when a system is two generations out of date, or has had no new games for five years.
    But the term "classic" doesn't have as much to do with age as it does with quality.

    Classic: judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.
    So Super Mario Bros 3 would be considered a classic game. Super Pitfall, not so much.

    Though the original question was about systems being considered "retro" or "old school". I personally have a hard time putting anything post 16-bit in that category, though clearly I wouldn't consider PS2 or GameCube "modern" systems.
    "Game programmers are generally lazy individuals. That's right. It's true. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Since the dawn of computer games, game programmers have looked for shortcuts to coolness." Kurt Arnlund - Game programmer for Activision, Accolade...

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    "Old School" and "Retro" are games that you looked back on nostalgically, play when you're older, and realize they really weren't that good.
    “The world has, forever and always, been brimming with shit-heads.” - Dana Gould

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    Quote Originally Posted by AceAerosmith View Post
    "Old School" and "Retro" are games that you looked back on nostalgically, play when you're older, and realize they really weren't that good.
    Unless they're games you never played but somehow wound up with a copy of.

    I also often run into games which I for some reason hated as a kid, but then I play them as an adult and suddenly I can't live without them. Master of Monsters for the Sega Genesis being one example.

    That's something I rarely ever hear people talk about--the reversing of a negative opinion into a positive one when you get older and/or your tastes change (and/or you get more skilled/competent at the game or genre in question, or just become more mature and open-minded--I used to not be able to stand the idea of text adventures but now I wonder how I lived without them). I always instead hear about the past like its invariably doomed to be suckage, which like most cynical thoughts, is wrong two-thirds of the time.

    ....

    To answer the topic question, I basically consider the PS2/Gamecube/original X-Box generation to be "retro" now, with the PSP being I'm-not-quite-sure. For me the real distinction these days has come down to the difference in culture and (for lack of a better term) B.S. surrounding gaming. Simply put: if its a game where I can just put the disc in and play it with little or no fuss (except maybe installing the game in the case of a PC game, MAYBE entering a code) then its old-school enough for me. If I have to worry about DRM, or if the game is digital-only, or there's all sorts of hoops I have to jump through and each and every single game purchase becomes an effing research project, then its veering into modern territory.

    That's not a great definition, but I'm not exactly a great thinker either.

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    general accepted definintion of vintage is 20 years or older

    same goes for collector vehicle plates

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    The interesting thing about vehicles is that there is a legal definition of what constitutes "classic". Due to emissions and safety issues, which varies from state to state.

    Classic Rock was defined by radio DJs and follows a mostly specific set of guidelines of release years and style.

    Video gamers and collectors, on the other hand, are left to create their own individual arbitrary definitions.

    Though I would say, that outside of these types of discussions, any time I hear the terms "classic", "retro", or "old school" applied to games they are referring to games with "pixel-art" graphics.
    "Game programmers are generally lazy individuals. That's right. It's true. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Since the dawn of computer games, game programmers have looked for shortcuts to coolness." Kurt Arnlund - Game programmer for Activision, Accolade...

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    The cutoff for me these days is standard definition vs high definition.

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    I think I'd lean more towards jb143's statement about 'pixel-art' graphics. I'm sure there are examples that don't fit with that, but there are some games that I don't think I'll ever be able to call retro or old-school, no matter how old they are. Grand Theft Auto III comes to mind.

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    This isn't an ironclad definition of "old school", just an idea that can help delineate the term.

    Another point toward the PS2-led generation being "retro" is that the kids that played those games new (during that generation) are now full grown adults. Kids meaning elementary school age, say 6-11, and adults starting at about 18-25 depending on the person, but on average 21 and up, most of which would be living independently, have jobs, or be nearing that point. Of course, a teen that played PS3, 360, etc could easily be an adult now.

    Let's look at the last generation (PS3, 360, Wii). From the launch of the 360 to the launch of the Xbox One (last of the current gen to be launched except the Switch) was November 22, 2005 - November 22, 2013. Those who were 6-11 during this time period were born November 23, 1993 - November 22, 2007, with the "core" being born 1997-2004. Nearly half of those people still aren't old enough to buy M rated games, and only the oldest few years would be mostly adults. By this definition, this generation will become "old school" on November 22, 2021, when a majority of the kids who played the games new are now adults.

    PS2-led generation was September 9, 1999 - November 19, 2006, Dreamcast launch to Wii launch. The kids during this time period were born September 10, 1987 - November 19, 2000, the "core" being 1991-1997. All of this age group can now buy M rated games. Most of the kids who were playing on PS2's, GameCubes, and Xboxes are in their 20s now, and the kids who played Dreamcast when it was in production are almost invariably adults now. Those that have fond memories of games like Jak and Daxter, Gran Turismo 3, SSBM etc as elementary school age kids are now adults for the most part. Young adults but adults nonetheless.

    What about the 32 bit generation? Few would argue that it's "old school". It's May 11, 1995 - November 18, 2001, Saturn launch to GameCube launch (not counting the 3DO, 32X, etc). The kids during this time period were born May 12, 1983 - November 18, 1995, almost all adults.

    Of course, people born after these date ranges experienced these systems as well, whether they were under 6 or experienced them after the next generation had came out. A kid playing Xbox 360 today will still remember it as part of their childhood. There are plenty of people born after '95 that played 32 bit games as a kid, after '00 who played PS2-gen games as a kid, etc. And each console is different. The kids who played Dreamcast are probably older on average than the ones who played PS2.

    I'm 25 now and when I was 6-11, I played Playstation 1 and Playstation 2 the most; I also had a Genesis, N64, and GameCube. There was a period of about 7 months when all the PS2-generation consoles had launched but I still only had a PS1.
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