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Thread: Why are there no unlicensed games today?

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    Kirby (Level 13) Buyatari's Avatar
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    Default Why are there no unlicensed games today?

    Why are there no unlicensed PS3,360,Wii games that run on hardware without modifications?

    Is it too hard to do?
    Is it illegal?

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    Pretzel (Level 4) substantial_snake's Avatar
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    I would imagine that its too expensive to make something that would entice people to buy while still being economically competitive. Unlicensed games seemed to fall around the time that the 3D revolution hit the industry.

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    There's always xbox indie games...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    Why are there no unlicensed PS3,360,Wii games that run on hardware without modifications?

    Is it too hard to do?
    Is it illegal?
    The DMCA essentially removes all rights to do such a thing any more from companies. It hasn't been tested yet in court, but pretty much that act was written so the more money you have, the more right you are. No one wants to test that.

    The reverse engineering to get to the point you could release an unlicensed game is not so difficult (see: DS Piracy) to make it so that it wouldn't work. The DMCA does. It's a *really* crappy act.
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    Because of portable gaming apps. You can make an app for Droid / iPhones and go from there. No hardware costs, so your only real investment is time.
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    All three consoles have reasonable in-roads for independent developers to sell small-dev-team/small-budget titles on their online stores respectively.

    I would have to guess that that discourages the effort involved in producing unlicensed physical product that would run on the consoles.

    That and the fact that unlicensed software could be locked out with a console firmware update.
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    Which systems had unlicensed games for it?
    That I know of-

    MSX
    Mark I/II/III/Master System
    Famicom/NES
    Mega Drive/Genesis
    SNES/SFC
    GB
    GBC
    GBA

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    Quote Originally Posted by buzz_n64 View Post
    Which systems had unlicensed games for it?
    That I know of-

    MSX
    Mark I/II/III/Master System
    Famicom/NES
    Mega Drive/Genesis
    SNES/SFC
    GB
    GBC
    GBA
    Well, licensing didn't really start until the days of the NES, so pretty much any 3rd party game for a console before then could be considered unlicensed.

    Notably, Activision was founded by former Atari programmers expressly for the purposes of putting out games for the 2600 without Atari's approval because they were pissed at Atari's policy of not crediting them for the games they worked on.

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    I'd argue that the homebrew applications and software that are released and playable on modded consoles/handhelds would count as unlicensed.

    Though granted I have very little experience with it as I don't own a modded box.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robocop2 View Post
    I'd argue that the homebrew applications and software that are released and playable on modded consoles/handhelds would count as unlicensed.

    Though granted I have very little experience with it as I don't own a modded box.
    Sure that could count as unlicensed but that isn't what I am asking.

    As was already stated Activision came out against Atari and none of it was licensed. With the NES there were several small companies who did this but Atari under the Tengen name released mostly unlicensed titles.

    So why doesn't EA or Infogrames or Activision or even an up and commer release unlicensed games is it all the DMCA? I guess I don't understand how that works then. I was under the assumption that the DMCA had more to do with tampering with the hardware.

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    there are unlicensed dreamcast games

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    So why doesn't EA or Infogrames or Activision or even an up and commer release unlicensed games is it all the DMCA? I guess I don't understand how that works then. I was under the assumption that the DMCA had more to do with tampering with the hardware.
    ... They make more than enough money the legal way.

    Also, why would anyone risk being sued by Sony or Microsoft? It's not worth the money. And they can just block you with a firmware update.
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    To create a game disc that ran an unlicensed game on a modern console, you would need to either steal or recover the private encryption key used to sign & authenticate the application code, OR exploit a bug in the existing hardware design (and pray that a firmware update doesn't fix it).

    You might also need a disc fabricator that can replicate any unique disc-based authentication mechanisms, unique formatting, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    To create a game disc that ran an unlicensed game on a modern console, you would need to either steal or recover the private encryption key used to sign & authenticate the application code, OR exploit a bug in the existing hardware design (and pray that a firmware update doesn't fix it).

    You might also need a disc fabricator that can replicate any unique disc-based authentication mechanisms, unique formatting, etc.
    All of this is pretty doable though with today's technology. It's pretty much been done with both the DS and PSP for a long time now, and if there was money to be made it would be done with everything else.

    The key, however, is that the DMCA gives the companies the right to not just sue the person who programs the game, but also the production house that produces the game. The DMCA then allows the company to sue the production house, which makes it so that unless you build your own production house, no company is going to be stupid enough to risk millions on a tiny, tiny project for an indie developer.

    Running the GOAT Store, I had to explore this a TON when it came to making independent Dreamcast titles. The law is a really bad one in the way of digital freedom, and one that could have easily been fixed to be a heck of a lot more fair for all involved. But, it was written by people who owning everything forever was more important than money (Disney), so it is written completely to benefit businesses, not to benefit the regular people.

    The technical side is totally doable. The law makes it so that Sony or Microsoft could sue the production facility for millions, and it is written in a way that it would take millions in litigation to get through. FAR more than it would cost for a company to legitimately buy development consoles and license their games.
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    Even if it is possible and doing it doesn't put you in lawsuit territory, there's simply the basic premise that you don't bite the hand that feeds you. Publishers develop a symbiotic relationship with the hardware manufacturers and overt antagonism does nobody any good.

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    Ultimately, there's no need to release unlicensed games on current-gen consoles.
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    Kirby (Level 13) Buyatari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Sniper View Post
    ... They make more than enough money the legal way.

    Also, why would anyone risk being sued by Sony or Microsoft? It's not worth the money. And they can just block you with a firmware update.
    Well that is my question. IS it illegal?

    Activision started out doing this. When exactly did making unauthorized software become illegal. Now I'm not talking about bootleg copies but new games created by companies.

    Also there used to be unauthorized strategy guides but you never see any these days. Are these illegal these days as well? You can write a book about Brad Pitt and Angelina and the 17 children but not about Call Of Duty 3? WTF ?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    Also there used to be unauthorized strategy guides but you never see any these days. Are these illegal these days as well? You can write a book about Brad Pitt and Angelina and the 17 children but not about Call Of Duty 3? WTF ?!?
    Well, Prima I think has those official licenses with the companies to make strategy guides, and I'm sure gets all the tips and tricks from developers to every cheat and unlockable in the game.

    Back in the day it was one thing to write an unofficial guide on "Sonic the Hedgehog" for Genesis. Would anyone even want to try giving that a crack on a game like Call of Duty: Black Ops? I sure as hell wouldn't, WAY too much work involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    Well that is my question. IS it illegal?

    Activision started out doing this. When exactly did making unauthorized software become illegal. Now I'm not talking about bootleg copies but new games created by companies.

    Also there used to be unauthorized strategy guides but you never see any these days. Are these illegal these days as well? You can write a book about Brad Pitt and Angelina and the 17 children but not about Call Of Duty 3? WTF ?!?
    Does it matter if it's illegal? See that part where I said they'd sue the pants off of you. Even if the law was on your side, they could still sue you and force you to spend everything you have on laywers knowing they could just keep doing it until you ran out of money and then force you to pay them more.

    ...

    *coughs*
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    Games can only be manufactured in Nintendo/MS/Sony facilities and require digital signatures from each. They've made it so that people can't do this anymore. Licensed publishers included.
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