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Thread: Building a Retro Gaming Club

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by VertigoProcess View Post
    At this point id strongly suggest you pay your site start ups out of pocket like everyone else and stop insulting the intelligence of the good people of dp(we really don't need a dictionary.com definition of the word "club"). If your site is worth visiting then you can make your money back (although you mention that you guys had a site in the past, which ill take to mean it failed). All it seems you're doing here at this point is gaining a negative reputation with one of the bigger and wider ranging retro gaming communities
    The exact definition of a word is important, making sure you're on the same page for an explanation makes it much easier in the long run. Nothing to do with this community's collective intelligence, but a foundation from which to launch that explanation. Several people questioned use of the word club and if we're not all thinking the same thing from the get-go, there's no point in continuing.

    Other than that, I fully appreciate your point. While I'm happy to explain our ideas and discuss what makes us different, there's no point in going round in circles if we are just going round in circles. I want to answer a few points and then I'll check back for extra questions or whatever after, but defending the idea for the sake of defending the idea isn't entirely what this is about.

    Yup, we had a mildly successful site a couple of years ago. Both Joe and I are professional writers both within the games industry and in other areas, which is partly why the site failed. Working for practically nothing is never as fun as working and getting paid incredibly well for it. The Retro Gamer Club was a popular enough part of the old site that bringing it back is high on our priority list. Successful sites, especially in the games industry, don't happen because you're a really good writer and try really hard. A retro-based site especially is practically doomed to failure, even something fairly unique, without some major backing (no news, likely well-discussed features).

    That's why a quick look at Retro Gaming on Google brings at least a couple of retro sites that haven't seen any action for as much as three-four years. We feel a community-based site will ensure that the project doesn't die through lack of use; we also think, from experience, that there are people out there ready to join a community like this.

    We want donation-based backing so to avoid pitching to various media groups and to have more control over the project (choosing advertising types, handling everything internally) and it's something that will, in some regard, pay off.

    Again, I want to thank everybody that has posted and we hope to see you after the launch later this year.
    Last edited by Mat Growcott; 02-24-2012 at 04:00 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat Growcott View Post
    there's no point in going round in circles

    as working and getting paid incredibly well for it.
    First off this is called retro gaming round table, haha

    Secondly you just stated that you and your partner there get paid incredibly well working in the game industry and you still can't shell out the 2500 bucks out of pocket to start this site? you don't need to go to other people if you're getting large pay checks, just save a few bucks here or there if you don't have a problem with money...
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by VertigoProcess View Post
    First off this is called retro gaming round table, haha

    Secondly you just stated that you and your partner there get paid incredibly well working in the game industry and you still can't shell out the 2500 bucks out of pocket to start this site? you don't need to go to other people if you're getting large pay checks, just save a few bucks here or there if you don't have a problem with money...
    How much we earn doesn't really come into it. We have families to support, pets to feed, PlayStation Vitas to purchase and bills to pay.

    Seriously though, we have money set aside both from private contributors and from our own funds, not necessarily enough to cover everything we want (hence this whole thing). We set the perfect amount to keep us going for long enough that if something happens and we can't get advertising or whatever, we can still run a site that we and our community can be proud of. We also get to keep almost everything donated if we come nowhere near that amount, and we can put anything to good use. This is an attempt to push independence, but the existence of the site by no means relies on finding enough people willing to part with a couple of dollars on IndieGoGo.

    How much polish we can bring to the table, on the other hand, relies entirely on how many people we can find willing to part with a couple of dollars on IndieGoGo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat Growcott View Post
    Actually, I've explained more than once how it would be different; for the sake of saving people time, I'll explain again. With a focus on a single game and while encouraging people to post longer, more detailed posts, the community section of the site will be dedicated to intelligent discussion of well-known and rarer classics of the past. Focussing on a single title at a time will mean that we can enjoy dissecting the game at a much slower pace. This would be but a single facet of the site, used by general community to discuss the monthly title. Feel free to share with us sites that you feel have implemented the full range of things we've mentioned in this thread, though, because I think perhaps you'll be surprised.

    I also don't especially like the term begging. Kickstarter/Indiegogo is full of ideas, some which you'd think are good, some which you'd think are bad. There's a kid on there trying to get people to give him money so he can pay his way into the E3 convention, THAT is begging. Please see the difference: we are after small donations towards something that the people who donate may enjoy. If you're not one of those people, as you've made clear, that's fine, don't donate.

    We're not trying to put one over you, matey, I'm trying to be as reasonable and open as I possibly can and I can't say it more clearly than: if you don't want to donate, don't donate.
    It's odd, I've been involved in the DP community since it was just a fanzine and most of the other classic gaming websites since the early Internet days and I've never heard of you or your partner. I went ahead and Googled you and all I see are some short articles on various lesser known video game news websites. I guess it's a big world and it's possible I missed your work, but if you're hoping to attract support, it might be helpful to provide some specific information about your previous work and how you have contributed previously to the classic gaming community.

    I guess I also disagree with your premise. While there is always room for great new retro game websites, there are already plenty of very popular and successful ones out there that cover everything you are thinking of doing. While DP might have declined slightly in recent years, sites like Atari Age, Nintendo Age and dozens of others are growing daily.

    As for gettng more in depth on one game, there are topics here and elsewhere that address just that sort of specificity. I know on several sites I'm involved with there are playthroughs or games of the week and members of the community often will play the same game or provide their own reviews of one particular game. For example, Nintendo Age does a weekly or monthly game where they invite everyone to play and then everyone posts impressions, high scores, reviews, etc...Atari Age does a very similar thing. I guess I don't see any difference between that and what you're proposing.

    As far as Kickstarter or other group funding tools, while they are certainly available for ideas regardless of merit, if you want people to provide funding, you need to either have a reputation with the people you are approaching or a very fleshed out idea. You have shown up here with neither one.

    At the end of the day, every single classic gaming site I'm aware of including this very site have always been based on the model of the owner paying the start-up costs and then members contributing later if they feel it's appropriate. Asking people to fund your website is ridiculous, especially since none of us know you and what you're proposing is already something that could be done very easily by just establishing a subforum or even a topic here or elsewhere. I do have to say that I'm not sure if it's intentional, but defining terms and otherwise talking down to people is not a good way to attract support. Everyone here is well educated and pretty savvy about how Kickstarter and websites work. You on the other hand didn't even have the common sense to build a reputation here by participating and contributing for a while before hitting us all up for financial support. Pretty embarassing and unprofessional if you ask me.
    Last edited by Bojay1997; 02-24-2012 at 07:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    It's odd, I've been involved in the DP community since it was just a fanzine and most of the other classic gaming websites since the early Internet days and I've never heard of you or your partner. I went ahead and Googled you and all I see are some short articles on various lesser known video game news websites. I guess it's a big world and it's possible I missed your work, but if you're hoping to attract support, it might be helpful to provide some specific information about your previous work and how you have contributed previously to the classic gaming community.
    While I'm absolutely flattered that somebody so convinced that we're here to attempt to steal your money and run off into the night would take the time to Google us, it's hardly a sure-fire way of finding our body of work. Those lesser-known sites, lesser-known by everybody but the thousands of people who use them, have enough people coming in that collectively they have brought me in the majority of my wage for the last three years. I also work in print and occasionally am paid for editorial services.

    My being a professional writer is not dependant on you not having missed me, but on my being paid to write. While it's a good point and something we'll consider adding to the IndieGoGo page, it's not something I'm about to write at length here.

    I guess I also disagree with your premise. While there is always room for great new retro game websites, there are already plenty of very popular and successful ones out there that cover everything you are thinking of doing. While DP might have declined slightly in recent years, sites like Atari Age, Nintendo Age and dozens of others are growing daily.

    As for gettng more in depth on one game, there are topics here and elsewhere that address just that sort of specificity. I know on several sites I'm involved with there are playthroughs or games of the week and members of the community often will play the same game or provide their own reviews of one particular game. For example, Nintendo Age does a weekly or monthly game where they invite everyone to play and then everyone posts impressions, high scores, reviews, etc...Atari Age does a very similar thing. I guess I don't see any difference between that and what you're proposing.
    Either you're really suggesting that we only build upon ideas that nobody has ever done or you're honestly suggesting that those sites do everything we are proposing. Let's use our original comparison with a book club. Sure, there are websites dedicated to reading books and I bet when the last Harry Potter book came out, they were all reading it on the forums. There would have been reviews, impressions, even people sharing ideas. But you'd have people posting about different bits, some people revealing spoilers, another person saying how it's nothing but "crap," people arguing over favourite characters.

    Meanwhile, I'd say if a book club looked at the same novel, there would be guided discussion so that everybody is on the same page, encouragement to discuss at length themes and subtext, decisions over phrase and evolution of character. We're not talking about a community where we compare high scores for a month (although leader boards is something that we've done before and will do again at Retro Gamer Club) and talk about how better things were in the good old days.

    Talking directly about the sites you suggested: Nintendo Age might have a very complete community (I'll be honest when I say I haven't really taken too much time looking over that section of it, but I'll definitely take a look as we're developing ideas further) but the front page itself is very lacking. It can go months between posts. I'd say from the names of the forums that it's more about collecting than enjoying the games and there's nothing specifically clashing with what we've said we're doing in this thread. The same could be said for Atari Age. Even if they do some of the stuff we do, they are completely and utterly different to what we're proposing.

    If you use these as your lead examples of sites already doing what we're doing, you really don't get the idea.

    As far as Kickstarter or other group funding tools, while they are certainly available for ideas regardless of merit, if you want people to provide funding, you need to either have a reputation with the people you are approaching or a very fleshed out idea. You have shown up here with neither one.
    I'm here, I'm answering questions and concerns. As Joe mentions in that first post, we're here as much for suggestions and ideas as much as we are for funding. As a retro community, you are our potential readers, potential return users, and even this early in our plan you're incredibly important to us. I have to disagree that the idea is not fleshed out, it was implemented on a site that received over 1500 users daily throughout that implementation and was popular during that period of time. The site as a whole wasn't bringing in enough people to warrant our continued efforts but acted as a nice pilot for us to grow from.

    Like I say, I'm here to explain whatever you want explained if you feel the idea isn't fleshed out. I can't build a reputation magically - I'd never been to this site before yesterday when Joe linked me this thread - and I appreciate your being defensive. Before you go AH-HA, I don't really see the difference. If I'd posted here every day for the last five years, would it mean you'd suddenly love our idea?

    All I can do is explain where we're coming from and I don't mind addressing any issues. I'm an open book, go ahead and ask what you want.

    At the end of the day, every single classic gaming site I'm aware of including this very site have always been based on the model of the owner paying the start-up costs and then members contributing later if they feel it's appropriate. Asking people to fund your website is ridiculous, especially since none of us know you and what you're proposing is already something that could be done very easily by just establishing a subforum or even a topic here or elsewhere. I do have to say that I'm not sure if it's intentional, but defining terms and otherwise talking down to people is not a good way to attract support. Everyone here is well educated and pretty savvy about how Kickstarter and websites work. You on the other hand didn't even have the common sense to build a reputation here by participating and contributing for a while before hitting us all up for financial support. Pretty embarassing and unprofessional if you ask me.
    I hate to repeat myself so soon, but if you honestly think everything we've suggested can be fit into a sub-forum and you plan to continue telling us how to run this thing, you really need to go ahead and read things again. This isn't a forum, it's a site-wide experience taking in everything that works in communities such as these and adding it to everything that works about other, more mainstream sites. If it's so easily done, link us to somewhere that is doing it. As for the website funding thing, you'll have read my earlier reply about avoiding pitching to groups who could finance it and want a degree of control. If you've never heard of people doing that, I'm surprised, as it's very commonplace.

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    Stop bumping this guy's thread; just let it die. All that arguing with them does for them is bump their advertisement up to the top of the page.
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