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Thread: WD's Victor Ireland is Back! (Oh, And He Wants Half-A-Million Bucks.)

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    Default WD's Victor Ireland is Back! (Oh, And He Wants Half-A-Million Bucks.)

    It's gettin' really late for me. So I'll let the article speak for itself.

    http://www.siliconera.com/2012/03/27...sical-release/

    Great to see Victor back!
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    Uh-huh. I'm sure the whole reason why Atlus didn't bother to bring the sequel over themselves was because the first Class of Heroes wasn't all that popular and didn't sell well enough to justify pursuing the series further.

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    I think I'll give money to other projects that deserve it.

    Victor, NOBODY BUYS GAMES FOR THE EXTRA CRAP ANYMORE. At least, not on the Working Designs level of crap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Sniper View Post
    I think I'll give money to other projects that deserve it.

    Victor, NOBODY BUYS GAMES FOR THE EXTRA CRAP ANYMORE. At least, not on the Working Designs level of crap.
    Hey, I like extra crap.

    But I would not donate money towards his projects, though. He was, and might still be, a huge douche. And I doubt he has changed over the years...but who knows.
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    I really don't understand this at all. He is already going to release it digitally with or without the funding, so there is no point to this Kickstarter. If he wants to release a deluxe physical edition, all he needs to do is partner with a distributor which can extend a line of credit and take pre-orders. There is absolutely no reason he needs to use Kickstarter for this effort.

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    I can see why, gauging interest in the project by having those who'd buy donate. Makes sense over using credit to produce a quantity that may not be entirely consumed.

    Especially on a PSP.
    RIP bargora, you will be greatly missed.That is how we do things on Giedion Prime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oobgarm View Post
    I can see why, gauging interest in the project by having those who'd buy donate. Makes sense over using credit to produce a quantity that may not be entirely consumed.

    Especially on a PSP.
    So then you open pre-orders and accept deposits or even the full amount. Kickstarter is not supposed to be a replacement for normal business tools.

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    But why not have an avenue open for those who'd like do more beyond simply purchase the title at retail? I don't know of many other ways.

    No, Kickstarter is not supposed to be a replacement, but it's certainly turning into one.
    RIP bargora, you will be greatly missed.That is how we do things on Giedion Prime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oobgarm View Post
    But why not have an avenue open for those who'd like do more beyond simply purchase the title at retail? I don't know of many other ways.

    No, Kickstarter is not supposed to be a replacement, but it's certainly turning into one.
    I don't understand. What about this offer goes beyond essentially creating a multiple tiered collector's edition? If he wants to sell limited edition collectibles, he can easily open a web store. Kickstarter is supposed to be a vehicle for the community to fund worthwhile projects that otherwise can't use traditional financing methods. The digital game release is already fully financed. There is no point in raising $500K when all he has to do to gauge interest is open a preorder through Paypal or even Amazon marketplace or better yet, find a distributor and share the risk.

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    I'm not out to defend the guy, but I think it's a neat way for fans to feel more involved in the process, and all parties benefit.

    1. Gamer/donator benefits from a feel of self-worth and whatever rewards they get for donating.
    2. Ireland benefits from getting his name back in the media and making some crazy CE that he appears to have a lot of personal interest in doing.
    3. The publisher gets to sell more copies of a game that might not have had the sales it did without this fundraiser.
    4. The industry could see more niche stuff in the future if people help get it made.

    I don't understand why there's a need for all the hand-wringing, myself.

    The industry is too dangerous for a company to take a chance on something like this. Why not turn to those who would be interested to help fund it? I think it's a great idea that could lead to cool things in the future, regardless of the "this isn't what Kickstarter is for" argument. I simply cannot see how a fan-funded collector's edition for a game that is incredibly niche is a bad thing at all.
    RIP bargora, you will be greatly missed.That is how we do things on Giedion Prime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oobgarm View Post
    I'm not out to defend the guy, but I think it's a neat way for fans to feel more involved in the process, and all parties benefit.

    1. Gamer/donator benefits from a feel of self-worth and whatever rewards they get for donating.
    2. Ireland benefits from getting his name back in the media and making some crazy CE that he appears to have a lot of personal interest in doing.
    3. The publisher gets to sell more copies of a game that might not have had the sales it did without this fundraiser.
    4. The industry could see more niche stuff in the future if people help get it made.

    I don't understand why there's a need for all the hand-wringing, myself.

    The industry is too dangerous for a company to take a chance on something like this. Why not turn to those who would be interested to help fund it? I think it's a great idea that could lead to cool things in the future, regardless of the "this isn't what Kickstarter is for" argument. I simply cannot see how a fan-funded collector's edition for a game that is incredibly niche is a bad thing at all.
    As myself and others have pointed out in other Kickstarter threads, efforts like this that aren't necessary or well thought out will likely make it harder for smaller independent projects to get funding and could sour people on the whole Kickstarter process. There is literally no need for this Kickstarter. If he wants to release a collector's edition, all he has to do is take pre-orders three months prior and require that they be fully paid off like Studio 38 did for Amalur and every other niche action figure or collectible company does with its limited releases. Just doing some quick math, with his $60 CE, if the $500K goal is met, that would be equal to roughly 8300 copies. There are a number of non-CE PSP games that had lower print runs including the most recent DJ Max Portable 3 game which had just 1,000 limited editions and 6,000 regular retail copies. Notably, they didn't need a Kickstarter to do that release and it's a very tiny company. I understand that the industry can be a difficult place for smaller companies, especially in this economy. What I don't understand is companies who should know better and have other resources abusing the fans through Kickstarter.

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    I'm sure the $500,000 kickstarter isn't just for Class of Heroes getting a physical release.

    If the drive works out, Ireland told Kotaku he has a "laundry list" of JRPGs he would like to work on with an emphasis on PSP titles. "We’re looking at titles on all platforms, but there’s a special emphasis on PSP because there’s so many titles stuck in Japan that really need to be enjoyed here. However, even though I can’t give specific titles, know that we have pursued or are closing deals on all major platforms," Ireland said.
    I mean, despite the list of crap that Tim Schafer has released this gen, and again, this is going by only playing Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, Tim Schafer received over a million in kickstarter without anything. Not even a name. Atleast this kickstarter will get us a physical copy of Class of Heroes as well as the possibility of other localizations.

    There are a lot of games for the PSP that I'd like to see come over, and to hear Vic say that, it's something that'd definitely make me want this project to succeed, with or without extra stuff. While not the developer, Working Designs has always had a track record of localizing good or great games and for the most part the localizations were very well done.

    I mean seriously. Look at all the shit that comes out these days, yet you're criticizing a company that released good games and wants to make a come back. The thing I see is that GaijinWorks is a small publishers that needs to get off the ground, and what do most small publishers do? The smaller publishers usually try to put an emphasis on releasing good niche titles that otherwise wouldn't be released. Working Designs, Agetec, Atlus, XSeed, etc. We probably would have never seen Arc the Lad 2 unless it was for Working Designs, as well as a lot of other great games, but Arc the Lad 2 is one of my favorite games and I thank them for that. Who knows if we'd have ever seen anything From Software(aside from Demon's/Dark Souls) or any of the RPG Maker games if not for Agetec, and while the publisher isn't really worth following any longer, they released a lot of amazing games for the PSX and PS2. To me, FromSoftware and Agetec have always been synonymous, as most of the FromSoftware library was published by Agetec in the west until after the PS2, so even though Agetec didn't make the games, I was still a fan. Then there's Atlus, which also were a very small publisher in the west during the 8bit, 16bit, and 32/64bit era. They gained a lot of popularity and now half of what they release is crap while the other half is what made them what they are today, or atleast somewhat. Then look at XSeed. Anyone remember what their first game was? I think it was Shadow Hearts From the New World, and while I don't care much for the title, they started with that game and have been one of the best publishers this gen.

    Another good thing about companies as publishers rather than those like Schafer who want to develop their own games, is that there are plenty of good unlocalized games that we haven't received and they can attempt to go for any of those titles. Where as Tim Schafer is going to be set on developing his own title which may or may not be a piece of shit.
    Last edited by kupomogli; 03-28-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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    You're confusing legitimate business practices with good intentions and no guarantees. Every one of those small businesses you listed either raised the capital from investors or took out loans or the founders put up their own money. Here, this company that has done little or nothing since being announced several years ago wants $500K for a vague promise that if they get it, other games may be released. Unfortunately, that isn't how Kickstarter works and such promises likely violate their terms and conditions. All anyone is promised for making a contribution is whatever is listed on the Kickstarter site. You can hope and wish that Vic will pursue other projects, but the $500K raised can't be used for them and it certainly doesn't guarantee they will happen. I'll be honest, I supported Wasteland 2 and the Tim Schaeffer project, but this latest announcement has really turned me against these campaigns for good. There is zero reason this needs to be done as a Kickstarter. None. Take preorders like everyone else and if you have a legitimate business model, find a publisher to support it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    I'm sure the $500,000 kickstarter isn't just for Class of Heroes getting a physical release.



    I mean, despite the list of crap that Tim Schafer has released this gen, and again, this is going by only playing Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, Tim Schafer received over a million in kickstarter without anything. Not even a name. Atleast this kickstarter will get us a physical copy of Class of Heroes as well as the possibility of other localizations.

    There are a lot of games for the PSP that I'd like to see come over, and to hear Vic say that, it's something that'd definitely make me want this project to succeed, with or without extra stuff. While not the developer, Working Designs has always had a track record of localizing good or great games and for the most part the localizations were very well done.

    I mean seriously. Look at all the shit that comes out these days, yet you're criticizing a company that released good games and wants to make a come back. The thing I see is that GaijinWorks is a small publishers that needs to get off the ground, and what do most small publishers do? The smaller publishers usually try to put an emphasis on releasing good niche titles that otherwise wouldn't be released. Working Designs, Agetec, Atlus, XSeed, etc. We probably would have never seen Arc the Lad 2 unless it was for Working Designs, as well as a lot of other great games, but Arc the Lad 2 is one of my favorite games and I thank them for that. Who knows if we'd have ever seen anything From Software(aside from Demon's/Dark Souls) or any of the RPG Maker games if not for Agetec, and while the publisher isn't really worth following any longer, they released a lot of amazing games for the PSX and PS2. To me, FromSoftware and Agetec have always been synonymous, as most of the FromSoftware library was published by Agetec in the west until after the PS2, so even though Agetec didn't make the games, I was still a fan. Then there's Atlus, which also were a very small publisher in the west during the 8bit, 16bit, and 32/64bit era. They gained a lot of popularity and now half of what they release is crap while the other half is what made them what they are today, or atleast somewhat. Then look at XSeed. Anyone remember what their first game was? I think it was Shadow Hearts From the New World, and while I don't care much for the title, they started with that game and have been one of the best publishers this gen.

    Another good thing about companies as publishers rather than those like Schafer who want to develop their own games, is that there are plenty of good unlocalized games that we haven't received and they can attempt to go for any of those titles. Where as Tim Schafer is going to be set on developing his own title which may or may not be a piece of shit.

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    With the Kickstarter you're still getting a premium edition physical copy of Class of Heroes for PS3, so you're not going to be out of any money if you're interested in the game, only what it cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasdkirby View Post
    He was, and might still be, a huge douche.
    How so? (Speaking as someone who generally knows next-to-nothing about WD except for what Sega CD and Turbo games they localized)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Dantes View Post
    How so? (Speaking as someone who generally knows next-to-nothing about WD except for what Sega CD and Turbo games they localized)
    He's gone kind of crazy with all the entitlement rants and believing that modern localizers should pay homage to him. The whole sabotage of the Lunar: Silver Star Harmony localization by getting the voice actors to refuse to work with XSEED because XSEED wouldn't hire him as a translator/consultant for the project was kind of a dick move in my humble opinion.


    I still love the stuff that Working Designs brought out, but as a person he comes off a bit abrasive.

    On the topic of the Limuted Edition from the Kickstarter page though:
    We’re offering a Physical Deluxe Pack of Class of Heroes II for the PSP® system that will be the craziest Deluxe Pack we’ve ever done. And if you know our work at Working Designs, that’s a pretty high bar already. This will NOT have digital content you download. It will NOT have codes for in-game armor or weapons. It will NOT have a picture flip book passed off as an art book. It will not ship with DLC on the disc you have to pay for again later. It will NOT come in a tin box passed off as Steelbook. It will NOT be what's usually advertised as a Collector's Edition in 2012 - a wimpy, atrophied shadow of what a real Deluxe Pack should be.

    It will be an awesome Deluxe Pack with real, collectible, limited, awesome stuff based on the game, including an arranged soundtrack.

    We’ll be shipping these Deluxe Packs directly to fans, hot off the press. This will be an exclusive, very limited, one-time release. It will not be in stores or anywhere else. Starting at the $59 ($49 for the Deluxe Pack w/$10 shipping) level, you will get one of these Limited Edition Deluxe Packs and some sweet swag perks for supporting this effort. In fact, more swag than we’ve ever done for one game - more swag than any other console game I know of. This is epic stuff.
    I'm happy to see a physical release, and a limited edition that doesn't suck, but the whole thing seems like a money grab. If they're so up in arms about physical releases, then why make it required to buy the PSN version of Vanguard Bandits in order to purchase the Vanguard Bandits pin they're selling?

    I doubt this will reach $500K, but if they still produce the whole thing and there are unsold copies I'm betting they'll wind up in his closet again to be sold on eBay 10 years later for a tidy profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    I mean, despite the list of crap that Tim Schafer has released this gen, and again, this is going by only playing Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, Tim Schafer received over a million in kickstarter without anything. Not even a name.
    This won't mean much to you, since you're mostly a PS3 fan, but --
    http://www.mobygames.com/developer/s...eloperId,1365/

    Look at all the games he worked in. Look at all the games he worked in. Tim Schafer has been in the business since 1988, he's been involved with some very memorable games as a designer and a writer. He got the money because gamers since the 80's are aware of who he is. The people who played Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island, the people who played Grim Fandango, the people who played Psychonauts, and the people who played Costume Quest. Four very different "generations" of gamers (both in taste and in platforms, I mean) have played his games.

    Twenty four years of work are enough to let the backers know he's not going to fuck around with your money. He's going to use it and do a fucking good game because he fucking well can.

    Can you say the same thing about Vic Ireland? Can anyone?
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    I've played Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island, but the two most recent games of his that I've played are Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, which the two recent ones suck ass. I don't give two shits about the games in the past when his current games aren't worth a damn.

    Saying a Tim Schafer game is going to be good because it's a Tim Schafer game is like saying Star Wars 1, 2, and 3 would be good because it's George Lucas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    I've played Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island, but the two most recent games of his that I've played are Brutal Legend and Costume Quest, which the two recent ones suck ass. I don't give two shits about the games in the past when his current games aren't worth a damn.

    Saying a Tim Schafer game is going to be good because it's a Tim Schafer game is like saying Star Wars 1, 2, and 3 would be good because it's George Lucas.
    Of course you'd say they suck ass. Why did I even bother replying?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Sniper View Post
    I think I'll give money to other projects that deserve it.

    Victor, NOBODY BUYS GAMES FOR THE EXTRA CRAP ANYMORE. At least, not on the Working Designs level of crap.
    Really? I seem to remember people (myself included) loving the old Working Designs games because of their packaging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oobgarm View Post
    But why not have an avenue open for those who'd like do more beyond simply purchase the title at retail? I don't know of many other ways.

    No, Kickstarter is not supposed to be a replacement, but it's certainly turning into one.
    If this practice became common I wonder how it would affect game rarity down the road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Griking View Post
    Really? I seem to remember people (myself included) loving the old Working Designs games because of their packaging.
    This was before. I imagined the people who liked that stuff in those days would like it now, too.

    But in my opinion, he's putting entirely too much effort into the goodies instead of, you know, the game itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Sniper View Post
    Of course you'd say they suck ass. Why did I even bother replying?
    I meant the newer games suck ass and having developed good older games doesn't mean that his newer games will be any good. I like Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Sniper View Post
    But in my opinion, he's putting entirely too much effort into the goodies instead of, you know, the game itself.
    To be fair, marketing can play a huge part in a game's success or failure. Creative ways to get your product to stand out among the sea of similarly themed titles can be extremely important. In some ways, putting effort into the goodies over the game (although it doesn't have to be a zero sum game either) might actually be the best course of action if the game will have trouble selling itself on it's own merits. And on the PSP, it just might.

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    Opps. My bad. Didn't realize this was the shit on Vic Ireland thread.

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