Socks the Cat Rocks the Hill

[Leo_A]

You won't find enough nuts willing to subsidize his habit to the tune of $4,000 just to get him to release a rom image. Not even sure such a thing would be allowed via Kickstarter.

And if you did manage to raise that much, why not buy it outright? Even if the value is greatly reduced afterwards like he and a few others would lead you to believe, you would be able to resell it as a group and get at least a portion of your investment back. Then you could direct funds towards another project, refund donors a percentage of what they paid, or donate it to something like a charity that you all agreed upon.

And remember that it went unreleased for a reason. I doubt he owns anything unique that is worth more than being a mere curiousity.

[Steven]

To be quite honest, the game looks below average.

Probably average at best, if that.

This isn't some top 10 gem that went unreleased, lol.

No biggie either way if it stays unreleased. I'm a huge SNES fan, but I bet there are 300 games on SNES alone that are superior to Socks the Cat Rocks the Hill

[Parodius Duh!]

who gives a shit if its good or not, its a title that has developed LEGENDARY status, its nearly finished or finished, and someone actually owns it. All reasons why it should be out there.

[Leo_A]

Legendary status?

Hardly

And don't you wonder if he actually has it for sale why there isn't a lot more information out there about this? If I had something unique worth even a fraction of $4,000 that I was willing to sell, I'd be more forthcoming with information.

I feel safe in considering it something that is a mere curiousity. I doubt we have some hidden gem here. It looks like a below average platformer that I wonder is even finished (From the performance I saw in that poor YouTube video, I doubt he's ever progressed very far in it). And poorly done generic platformers were a dime a dozen back in the day.

[Gameguy]

If this ever got released it would be forgotten about in a week, maybe a month tops. Who still talks about Bio Force Ape? Nobody thought that would ever turn up, yet it did and after seeing a playthrough video it hasn't been mentioned since.

[Garry Silljo]

I don't care if he keeps it or charges a million dollars for it. It's his and no one else is entitled to it. He's not waving it in your faces either. You guys basically called him out. I wouldn't even know he had it if it weren't for this thread, and now that I know, ...., good for him. You want to paint him as greedy because he doesn't give away very valuable items for free? Hell my car is probably only worth a quarter of that and I don't just through the keys to anyone who wants to drive. If it were worth more, then I'd be even more protective. It's his choice, and a smart one, to preserve that value. You're lucky and should be thankful there is a price at all. At least you have a chance. A true hoarder would not part for any price.

[Leo_A]

I agree that the prototype cartridge is his. He's under no obligation to release the rom, produce reproductions, or sell it. He shouldn't be pestered about it. While not the most generous move in the world and not the best for the long-term survival of the code contained on it, the prototype is still his property. Nothing wrong with wanting to keep it to yourself or do something that you feel like is protecting the value of it (I.e., not posting a rom dump of it).

What annoys me in this thread is the suggestion raised to fund enough money to give him in order to release the code contained on it. The prototype is his to do with what he pleases. But the code contained on the eprom isn't his unless he acquired the rights to the game at the same time he purchased the cartridge.

I'm fine with releasing the rom, selling the prototype, or creating reproductions of it (I feel as if you're paying compensation for the cost and time to produce a physical cartridge of it, not for the code contained within).

But receiving several thousand dollars for the code itself? I think that's wrong unless he has the rights to it (Which I doubt he does). He owns the physical prototype itself, not all the 0's and 1's on the eprom chip itself.

[badinsults]

I don't think I should be questioned on my motives on creating a SNES unreleased games article. I've done plenty of them, including for unreleased games that I released the ROM images of. I think I scraped the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Socks the Cat, and I don't anticipate ever touching it again unless someone is foolish enough to waste $4000 of their own money on it. However, one of the main motivations for making the article was to correct the error on the reason for its cancellation (which had nothing to do with censorship). If not for this error, I would have been happy to keep TRM's old article up there, and we would not be having this conversation right now.

There are literally hundreds of prototypes out there that I have yet to document, and I am not going to cry about not having this one. I'm already starting research on some other unreleased games that are available. I've known for years that DreamTR had this game, and honestly I was satisfied him keeping it to himself until that nonsense on the Nintendo Age board. I'd rather not escalate this further (DreamTR, I suggest if you did not post that video, that you make the guy remove the implications that he has the prototype, because it is definitely a troll). We have our opinions on this subject, and it has been played out often enough.


Besides, I may soon have something far more interesting than Socks the Cat.

[Leo_A]

Who was questioning your motives? As far as I can tell, you just wrote an interesting article about this with what information you had.

I don't think anyone was faulting you for it in this thread that I could see.

[megasdkirby]

Taking $4,000 as a basis, if reproductions were made, at least 80 would be needed to reach that amount (each one being $50). If 100 were to be made, the total would be $5,000. That would be an extra $1,000 for parts and labor. Let's exclude any form of box and manual for the game, so expenses won't go any higher.

Of course, extra money is always a concern...so let's raise the price to $60 for a cart only copy of the repro, without a fancy label. Just barebones. That would make $6,000 revenue, which will cover the $4,000 requested by DreamTR, and the rest in parts and profit.

Now, I'm pretty sure DreamTR will refuse this idea of creating reproductions, because he himself has had bad luck in the past doing repros (something about a game he released for the Genesis that sold poorly). His apprehension is quite understandable. So instead of creating the reproductions beforehand, why not do what the creators of Pier Solar did? Ask for the money in advance, and once a minimum of 100 people pays for the game, then start producing the cart? That way, money is guaranteed. Sure, some people will bitch about this practice as well, but screw them: eventually a minimum of 100 people will request and pay for the game.

Then someone else, as what has happened in the past, will create custom covers/box and manual for the game.

And if money is really a big issue (as it always is), then raise the loose copy to $65. More money in the back (for profit).

[Leo_A]

A reproduction of someone else's property should be priced to cover the direct manufacturing expenses and a reasonable sum for the necessary time investment to get things going, assemble the necessary supplies, put things together, and ship them out.

Unless it's a homebrew or done via permission of the copyright holder, "profit" shouldn't be entering the equation since it isn't theirs to be making money off selling copies of in the first place. He owns a prototype, he doesn't own a copyright to the contents on it.

[megasdkirby]

Unless it's a homebrew or done via permission of the copyright holder, "profit" shouldn't be entering the equation since it isn't theres to be making money off selling copies of in the first place.

Oh, totally agreed. But since profit seems to be an underlying issue here as well, some "incentive" might persuade DreamTR in releasing repros of the game.

Money talks, as they say.

[Leo_A]

Of course, but I was talking about principals in general rather than what it would take to get this specific item released to the public.

I'm willing to look the other way when copyright infringement is for the good of the hobby. Posting a 20 or 30 year old prototype that never made it out for example. But the thought of being profiting off the contents of their prototype I think crosses the line.

Someone that owns a prototype just has the right to profit off selling that physical item. Their property is physical and doesn't include the contents of the cartridge. The code isn't theirs to be profiting off of. So I hope people wouldn't pay to get something dumped and released since even though it would get something released if the other party followed through, it sets a bad precedent.

[badinsults]

Please, I'd rather DreamTR keep it to himself than to have some high priced scheme to have it released (btw Leo_A, my response before was not to you). I don't agree with bootlegging, even if it is for an unreleased game from a company that no longer exists. Let's just let it go.

[megasdkirby]

Please, I'd rather DreamTR keep it to himself than to have some high priced scheme to have it released (btw Leo_A, my response before was not to you). I don't agree with bootlegging, even if it is for an unreleased game from a company that no longer exists. Let's just let it go.

Oh, I'm just doing that to prove a point. You probably know what it is by now.

[Greg2600]

As someone who does read NA forum, DreamTR came off like he wasn't serious about selling it, often making jokes and wise cracks. I don't care either way, but my impression was he didn't want to sell it. Also, I think he has soured on releasing games via cartridge after they did Indy Heat on Genesis and very few people bought it. Releasing a prototype game on cartridge does not equal a lot of sales. The market is overwhelmingly overstated by many. Game series like Mario, Zelda, Sonic, the big ones, they would sell a ton, and often their repros do, but a game like Socks the Cat would not. Perhaps the SNES collector market could sustain it, but I'm not confident. Most often the lack of sales are because the game just isn't very good.

In terms of not freely releasing a prototype, my opinion doesn't change. I do not blame the owner if he does not, though I of course would prefer he did. I still feel that the existence of a ROM shouldn't degrade the value much. I know it does, but it should not. Given that many unreleased games are either not complete or just plain garbage, the value should be placed on the quantity of the item. Why is Stadium Events so expensive? It's an average game, for which anyone can play. In fact, all that is different was they changed the name and released it again. It's all about the quantity. The infamous Air Raid 2600? Garbage, but fetches a lot of money. Why are prototypes, which are far more rare than almost any released game, not worth more even if there's a dump? I can see if its a commercially released game, but an unreleased game's proto should hold it's value no matter what.

[Parodius Duh!]

who gives a fuck if its good or not, or how long it will be talked about. YES it has reached semi-legendary status like a handful of other specific unreleased games that are known to actually be in collectors possession. Fact of the matter is its a completed unreleased game, pile of shit or not. It is a piece of artwork that many people put their blood and sweat into that should be preserved for future generations to enjoy. The only answer is its a game thought to be lost, its NOT, therefore it should be out there.

[Parodius Duh!]

I don't care if he keeps it or charges a million dollars for it. It's his and no one else is entitled to it. He's not waving it in your faces either. You guys basically called him out. I wouldn't even know he had it if it weren't for this thread, and now that I know, ...., good for him. You want to paint him as greedy because he doesn't give away very valuable items for free? Hell my car is probably only worth a quarter of that and I don't just through the keys to anyone who wants to drive. If it were worth more, then I'd be even more protective. It's his choice, and a smart one, to preserve that value. You're lucky and should be thankful there is a price at all. At least you have a chance. A true hoarder would not part for any price.

Its not his. Sure he owns one of the only physical copies, but he doesnt own the game, didnt develop or produce it, etc. Therefore its all of our game, hes just hoarding it from us cause hes the guy that happens to own the physical copy, HE has the power now and absolutely loves bathing in it. I know for a fact if he started a kickstarter page the $4,000 would be met in a matter of weeks. I know collectors as far away as Japan and Italy that will donate a few hundred to him just dropping the rom file. As stated people have sent him serious offers, and he just bullshits them around. If he starts a kickstarter page Im sure his goal will be met FAST. But will he? doubt it....clearly he likes the attention. DreamTR needs to stop fucking around and just make it clear that hes never going to sell it, even though he claims he will, and has received offers....hmmmm...Just stop dicking everyone around big shot prototype man.

[JSoup]

Therefore its all of our game

No....no...that's....that's just stupid....

[Parodius Duh!]

no its not stupid at all actually if you look at the historical aspect of video games. Its meant for us all, it was originally intended for anyone to enjoy. The Louvre owns the Mona Lisa, but they have it on display for everyone to come see.....


If he 100% made the game or flat out bought the copyright, etc. making him sole owner, then whatever dont fucking share it. But thats not the case....fuck even he made 10 repros of the game Id be satisfied....just means theres a better chance of playing this....