Socks the Cat Rocks the Hill

[Bojay1997]

no its not stupid at all actually if you look at the historical aspect of video games. Its meant for us all, it was originally intended for anyone to enjoy. The Louvre owns the Mona Lisa, but they have it on display for everyone to come see.....


If he 100% made the game or flat out bought the copyright, etc. making him sole owner, then whatever dont fucking share it. But thats not the case....

Incorrect. The game code belongs to whoever holds the IP rights. Games don't get released for a reason and it's not your right to declare that anything unreleased is suddenly in the public domain just because it's not likely to be sold at some point in the future. As we have seen over the years, unreleased games can see second life as download titles or other commercial ventures. You don't get to essentially steal someone else's intellectual property and hard work just because you like video games.

[Parodius Duh!]

I know how copyright and public domain works. You really think "Socks the Cat" is still registered and someone owns it? highly, HIGHLY unlikely, anyone in their right mind would have stopped paying towards this the second big willie left office and the SNES died. So technically DreamTR even selling this copy would be illegal since its copyrighted unreleased works, right? Him even owning it would be illegal as all unreleased and prototype copyrighted material is property of the rights holder. I probably know more about this than most as I work for a DVD company that releases cult films.....

[Greg2600]

Technically his hoarding of the game is legally the thing to do. As I've said, if said owner were to lose money by releasing, is it fair to demand he does? He's not hoarding, he's offered to sell it, although most of us took that offer to be a joke, I guess it wasn't. I go back to my point, if it wasn't for the perceived loss of value, anyone with access to the equipment would release these roms. The key is the loss of value, and frankly I'm not so sure that's true in all cases. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay. I just don't see why the value goes down so much if the rom is released. In almost all cases, there are multiple prototypes that exist, they just haven't been found.

[Bojay1997]

I know how copyright and public domain works. You really think "Socks the Cat" is still registered and someone owns it? highly, HIGHLY unlikely, anyone in their right mind would have stopped paying towards this the second big willie left office and the SNES died. So technically DreamTR even selling this copy would be illegal since its copyrighted unreleased works, right? Him even owning it would be illegal as all unreleased and prototype copyrighted material is property of the rights holder. I probably know more about this than most as I work for a DVD company that releases cult films.....

That's not how copyright works and it's clear you have zero understanding of the law. In the United States, you don't have to do a renewal for works published or registered after January 1, 1978. The term of copyright extends for a period of the life of the author plus 70 years or 95 years from first publication or 120 years from creation, whichever comes first. That means this game will be within copyright through at least 2060 and probably much longer.

As far as the ownership of the cartridge, that's between DreamTR and whoever he purchased it from. A company at liquidation can transfer limited rights to property including IP to someone who buys its assets. I've been to auctions where the company only transfers the rights to use particular IP assets for non-commercial personal use and restricts further transfer or publication of copyrighted material, although it grants a limited ownership right to the property to the buyer. Is that what happend here? I don't know, but frankly it's none of your business or anyone else's.

[ProgrammingAce]

Any serious offers towards the game would have been directed to me in a PM.

I don't believe in conducting business in private, too many sellers make up fake offers to drive up prices.

I offered $7,000, you countered with $5,000 and told me I had to pay by midnight. That screamed out "suspicious", and it's certainly not how I do business.

The only thing I asked was that you proved the cart was legally acquired, and not stolen at some point. You were unwilling to do that, which spoke volumes to me.

[DreamTR]

I don't believe in conducting business in private, too many sellers make up fake offers to drive up prices.

I offered $7,000, you countered with $5,000 and told me I had to pay by midnight. That screamed out "suspicious", and it's certainly not how I do business.

The only thing I asked was that you proved the cart was legally acquired, and not stolen at some point. You were unwilling to do that, which spoke volumes to me.

I was going to stop responding but seriously? With my buying/selling history you are asking me that and thinking something was "suspicious" with me? That's the most way out left field remark basically being accusatory.

I mean, I've heard some stuff where you didn't ship stuff and had some questionable selling habits from the NA guys conducted on this forum but I never bothered to research it or care, their word against yours, I don't know but MY business practice is being questioned for whether or not the game is stolen? Really?

I don't conduct business much in public. I am honest and don't magically drive up prices. How am I supposed to prove ANYTHING is legally acquired? I don't have receipts magically lying around when I purchase protos. My WORD in this community and buying/selling history for 16+ years on the internet should be enough, and that's just how it is. I don't like all of my business conducted on boards. If people want their business private, so be it, but if I say it is not stolen, it's not stolen, but I can tell you 99% of people don't have receipts for every single thing they have purchased over the years.

The Midnight thing was a joke. I just can't believe how serious you guys are taking a troll posting my friend did originally. I was just trying to be funny but apparently that comes off misinterpreted.

Parodius: I've probably had more proto games dumped/sold by others than you have owned, but of course this is how people always remember, they feel it is "their right" to have it. So If I pay $$$$ for something and don't give it away for free I am the bad guy? Why don't you just pay me? People have been trying to raise funds, said that many times, you didn't read apparently. Also, attention starved? Really? Do you know how much stuff I have and don't ever really talk about it? Do I have websites bragging about every little thing and showing it off? No, I don't, but you just assume you know based on this thread, that's pretty hilarious. It's guys like you that prevent anything from ever being dumped because of how naive you sound about deserving stuff.

Tell you what, give me you car? I deserve it. It's greed if you ask for money instead of giving it to me.

This whole thing is so stupid. Basically I am getting called out for OWNING something and no one serious has stepped forward and offered me the correct amount and to repeat repeat repeat people are trying to come up with funds for it. To act like I haven't offered to sell it is crazy

[Tupin]

I swear I've read this same exact thread, covering the same exact argument, over and over again. No ground is ever gained, though I think this game will show up eventually somewhere else because it was reviewed in most major magazines of the day.

But really, who cares if it does. Why make a game involving a presidential pet? Why give it to a company that basically had no experience publishing? Is the humor in it good? That's what they were trying to go for, but is the Ross Perot-type boss even that funny?

[DreamTR]

I swear I've read this same exact thread, covering the same exact argument, over and over again. No ground is ever gained, though I think this game will show up eventually somewhere else because it was reviewed in most major magazines of the day.

But really, who cares if it does. Why make a game involving a presidential pet? Why give it to a company that basically had no experience publishing? Is the humor in it good? That's what they were trying to go for, but is the Ross Perot-type boss even that funny?

I agree, I just think it's stupid that I keep getting called out for it and people flock to the masses thinking I am hording something when they have no idea how many games I've had released already. It's a tiring argument but it just seems a new group of people latch on to the naysayers. I mean, why mention my name at all in that negative light in the article? Who cares? If I have it, say one is in the possession of so and so and leave it at that.

The game is actually pretty fun and I recently decided (as I was against it for the past 10 years) of getting it in someone's hands would be a great thing for the community but I'm not stupid, I'm not giving away a one of a kind prototype for free and I'm not holding the ROM ransom, I'm selling the actual game but the way I'm getting treated is pretty ridiculous even with a bonafide "For Sale" people are trying to use "smoke and mirrors" with everyone about my business practices when I have a spotless record for 16+ years on the internet. It all boils down on how you view people that attack and attack and for what reason they have to do so....

[JSoup]

I was going to stop responding

Really, cause I was positive you'd be back in a matter of posts following your last one to 'set people straight'.

[DreamTR]

I don't believe in conducting business in private, too many sellers make up fake offers to drive up prices.

I offered $7,000, you countered with $5,000 and told me I had to pay by midnight. That screamed out "suspicious", and it's certainly not how I do business.

The only thing I asked was that you proved the cart was legally acquired, and not stolen at some point. You were unwilling to do that, which spoke volumes to me.

By the way, this is what my quote said:
02/17/2012 06:21:06 PM

Clock is ticking...Feb 29 at 1159pm CST then it goes back up to silliness...definitely a lot better than hanging out in my drawer and never coming out ever which was my original stance. Honestly I am surprised I still have it =)


I made that post 12-13 days before the end of the month not "midnight" the same day like you are trying to state. The fact of the matter is you never came up with a serious offer to me, just a lot of stuff directed to whoever in the thread and that seemingly would make things crazily complicated and I seriously have no idea why you started that whole thing in the first place.

No one was playing games in the thread. If you and everyone else reads the posts you can see I was not the one that even started the thread. The video was Richard's idea. I only say "we" because it was my game, but even so that should have no factor on ANYTHING, the game is and was for sale and I clearly stated that numerous tims in the thread further lowering my price but the fact of the matter is you have your facts wrong by saying I gave you until Midnight. I said I would sell the game for $5000 to ANYONE that paid me by the END OF THE MONTH right in that thread.

http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/mes...threadid=62349

[DreamTR]

Really, cause I was positive you'd be back in a matter of posts following your last one to 'set people straight'.

Cool. I guess now that I am getting trolled by people in the thread it is getting even for owning a video game, eh?

[JSoup]

Cool. I guess now that I am getting trolled by people in the thread it is getting even for owning a video game, eh?

I stand by what I said before. I don't give a flying fucking about a half finished game or who owns it. If you never sold the damn thing and ended up being buried with it, a ROM never being dumped, I don't feel that it would be a big loss to anyone.

I just find it funny when obviously confrontational people (trolls or not) make blatantly false statements about how they are 'done with a topic'. Cause it's always a lie.

[Doonzmore]

Wow, this thread really took off.

Good read Evan. I've been enjoying your website for some time. Now I'm actually more curious about the Genesis version Socks the Cat Rocks the House.

One thing I've wondered is where the box scans (particularly the back) came from. Is it possible a prototype box exists?

As for the video in question. Jason's friend can just as easily disable the comments section, but instead chooses to indulge his accusers. I think that's the reason why everyone's labeling him as a "troll".

Oh, and Jason has a Youtube account yet doesn't know how to upload a video? A simple google search will give you all the information you need. Not exactly rocket science.

[Parodius Duh!]

That's not how copyright works and it's clear you have zero understanding of the law. In the United States, you don't have to do a renewal for works published or registered after January 1, 1978. The term of copyright extends for a period of the life of the author plus 70 years or 95 years from first publication or 120 years from creation, whichever comes first. That means this game will be within copyright through at least 2060 and probably much longer.

As far as the ownership of the cartridge, that's between DreamTR and whoever he purchased it from. A company at liquidation can transfer limited rights to property including IP to someone who buys its assets. I've been to auctions where the company only transfers the rights to use particular IP assets for non-commercial personal use and restricts further transfer or publication of copyrighted material, although it grants a limited ownership right to the property to the buyer. Is that what happend here? I don't know, but frankly it's none of your business or anyone else's.

Thats your argument? Clearly, you dont understand the law. Thats for published works only, whether anonymous or not. This is not and never was published. Loop holes are amazing, I know, cause I deal with copyright just about everyday. Film, Games, Books, etc. all have different rules and regulations in regards to copyright. Im almost certain Socks is no longer protected.


From the US Governments site:

The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication.

[Parodius Duh!]

Wow, this thread really took off.

Good read Evan. I've been enjoying your website for some time. Now I'm actually more curious about the Genesis version Socks the Cat Rocks the House.

One thing I've wondered is where the box scans (particularly the back) came from. Is it possible a prototype box exists?

Doubt it, mock up box images were made for just about every unreleased SNES game. All the renovation titles that were to come out for SNES, undercover cops, etc. etc. There was probably never a box and just the image made on the computer for advertisements.

[Parodius Duh!]

Parodius: I've probably had more proto games dumped/sold by others than you have owned, but of course this is how people always remember, they feel it is "their right" to have it. So If I pay $$$$ for something and don't give it away for free I am the bad guy? Why don't you just pay me? People have been trying to raise funds, said that many times, you didn't read apparently. Also, attention starved? Really? Do you know how much stuff I have and don't ever really talk about it? Do I have websites bragging about every little thing and showing it off? No, I don't, but you just assume you know based on this thread, that's pretty hilarious. It's guys like you that prevent anything from ever being dumped because of how naive you sound about deserving stuff.



I TRIED BEING NICE.......LISTEN DUMBASS, NOT ONCE DID I SUGGEST YOU GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE, I SAID START A KICKSTARTER PAGE. YOULL GET YOUR MONEY ASAP. AND YES YOU LOVE THE ATTENTION, YOU THINK YOUR SOME BIG SHOT CAUSE YOU HAVE UNRELEASED GAMES AND YOU EMBRACE THE FACT THAT YOU OWN IT AND NOBODY ELSE DOES. IF YOU DIDNT YOU WOULD SAY ONE OF TWO THINGS WITHOUT EVER HAVING TO RETURN TO ANY THREAD ABOUT SOCKS, THOSE TWO THINGS ARE

1- ITS NOT FUCKING HAPPENING

2- ILL START A KICKSTARTER PAGE CAUSE I WANT MONEY AND THE 100S OF PEOPLE THAT WANT THIS GAME CAN CHIP IN AND ILL RELEASE THE ROM ONCE 4,000 IS MET.

STOP WITH THE COCKY RESPONSES TO EVERYONE.


AND I COULD GIVE A SHIT "IVE PROBABLY OWNED MORE PROTOTYPES THEN YOU BLAH BLAH SHIT FALLING OUT OF MY MOUTH BLAH BLAH BLAH"

THERE IS YOUR GOD COMPLEX COMING OUT AGAIN, I HAVE THIS, YOU DONT DO THIS, IVE DONE THIS, I DONT TALK ABOUT IT THOUGH BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....IF YOU WERE SO GREAT PEOPLE WOULDNT BE HERE TALKING SHIT TO YOU....... HONESTLY ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT SHOULD NOT OWN PROTOTYPES....AND ITS NOT JUST THIS THREAD IM RUNNING ON PAL. LOOK AROUND THE INTERNET, YOU ARE FAR FROM BEING LIKED OR CONSIDERED AN ASSET TO THE COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW WHO IS AN ASSET? TWO BROTHERS, A SPECIFIC TWO I WONT NAME NAMES BUT EVERYONE KNOWS WHO IM TALKING ABOUT, THEY WILL EVENTUALLY RELEASE EVERYTHING THEYVE SPENT THOUSANDS ON, AND ALREADY HAVE. WHAT GAMES HAVE YOU PERSONALLY RELEASED BESIDE THAT RACING GAME? (WHICH YOU MADE REPROS OF AND STILL CHARGED ANYWAY...) THAT ARE ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANT AND NOT JUST SOME SLIGHTLY ALTERED VERSION OF WHAT ALREADY EXISTS?

YOU SIR ARE A "GOD" AND NOTHING MORE. HAVE FUN WITH YOUR PROTOTYPES, ASSHAT. PERSONALLY ID RATHER BE KNOWN FOR BEING THAT GUY WHO STRIVES TO FURTHER THE COMMUNITY (COUGH LIKE THE TWINS COUGH COUGH) RATHER THAN THE GREEDY GUY WHO HAS STUFF THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT BUT WONT SHARE, OR IS RELYING ON A SINGLE PERSON WITH A CHUNK OF CASH. I HATE HAVING TO COMPARE YOU BUT ITS TRUE.


START A KICKSTARTER PAGE OR KICK ROCKS!

[madman77]

The only thing worse than paying $50 in the 90's for a shitty platform game would be paying $5,000 in 2012 for a shitty platform game from the 90's.

[bunnyboy]

Thats your argument? Clearly, you dont understand the law. Thats for published works only, whether anonymous or not. This is not and never was published.

1976 Copyright Act: "Publication is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending."

If this was a review copy for a magazine, that could be a distribution by lending which is publication. If it was purchased from the company that would be a publication by sale.

For works after Jan 1 1978 there is no distinction between published and unpublished anyways, so that doesn't matter. The copyright is still automatic and will be valid for many more decades: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html#302

[ProgrammingAce]

Cool. I guess now that I am getting trolled by people in the thread it is getting even for owning a video game, eh?

Why don't you take the proto out of your mouth and try that one again...

[rbudrick]

Guys, DreamTR has NO obligation to you. It's his property, it belongs to him, and he is under zero obligation to share it. If you were offended by anything he did (or DIDN'T do), you're a wuss an you need to chill. Besides, it's just stupid Socks the Cat, so stuff it.

-Rob