Nintendo's E3 2012 Official Thread

[WCP]

I wonder how much money Nintendo would have had to pay Activision, to get them to make a custom Wii U version of Black Ops 2, running in true 1080p at 60 fps. They could have really made that a selling point. Isn't the GPU in the Wii U advanced enough that pretty much all the games will be running in 1080p ? They should have talked about that. Any technological advantage that Nintendo has right now, will be very short lived come next e3, but while they are enjoying this advantage, they should really beat their chest about the bump in resolution and texture quality (that I'm assuming would be a given).

[Bojay1997]

I wonder how much money Nintendo would have had to pay Activision, to get them to make a custom Wii U version of Black Ops 2, running in true 1080p at 60 fps. They could have really made that a selling point. Isn't the GPU in the Wii U advanced enough that pretty much all the games will be running in 1080p ? They should have talked about that. Any technological advantage that Nintendo has right now, will be very short lived come next e3, but while they are enjoying this advantage, they should really beat their chest about the bump in resolution and texture quality (that I'm assuming would be a given).

Did you miss the past cycle when Nintendo dominated by a wide margin in total console sales with something that was essentially last generation technology? Nintendo is not going after the bleeding edge enthusiasts. They are going after the same children and family market they have always gone after to great financial success until the past two years or so. I don't know if lightning can strike again, but I will give Nintendo credit again for trying to do something different and being more focused on the ways people interact with games and with each other when they are playing. Sony and Microsoft and frankly PCs are more than going to cover the high performance end of the market and trying to promote what will as you said be a very narrow time window of technical advantage is pretty pointless.

[Leo_A]

The discussion was about why developers didn't suddenly have a pile of new games to announce that were WiiU exclusives. My point was that nobody aside from Nintendo is going to dump substantial resources into the WiiU until the other two platforms drop and they have a good handle on the new market landscape.

If we're talking about Wii U exclusives, what does a future Xbox 720 and Playstation 4 have to do with anything?

They're not going to be exclusives if they're on other platforms. And if a publisher wants a Wii U project to be multiplatform, they have two popular consoles with an established userbase and years of commercial success ahead of them to port it to.

Hence, it isn't a problem.

[The 1 2 P]

It doesn't change the fact that releasing a next generation game a year or more before all of the platforms are released is not a great business move.

That is of course your opinion and currently Ubisoft doesn't share your sentiments as they are releasing Zombie U for the WiiU before the other platforms are launched. It might be an exclusive or it might get ported. Either way they have options, as would any third party developer that wanted to have WiiU launch games ready this year.

If we're talking about Wii U exclusives, what does a future Xbox 720 and Playstation 3 have to do with anything?

They're not going to be exclusives if they're on other platforms. And if a publisher wants a Wii U project to be multiplatform, they have two popular consoles with an established userbase and years of commercial success ahead of them to port it to.

Hence, it isn't a problem.

That was my point as well. The discussion started when I wondered why Zombie U was the only Wii U third party exclusive announced at E3. Bojay thought it was due to how risky third party titles can be on Nintendo's hardware. I actually agree with him there but as I also pointed out(and what you just figured out instantly) Ubisoft(and any other third party company) can just as easily port any initial WiiU exclusives to not only the 720 and PS4 when they release but also to the 360 and PS3 even sooner if they want to recoup cost back for any lost revenue in case the Wii U version(while it's still an exclusive) doesn't sell well. So yes I agree making a Wii U exclusive would be risky but third parties have way more options than they did when the Wii launched and was the only motion sensing console out there(I know the PS3 had sixaxis movement but it wasn't the same as the Wiimote).

[Bojay1997]

If we're talking about Wii U exclusives, what does a future Xbox 720 and Playstation 4 have to do with anything?

They're not going to be exclusives if they're on other platforms. And if a publisher wants a Wii U project to be multiplatform, they have two popular consoles with an established userbase and years of commercial success ahead of them to port it to.

Hence, it isn't a problem.

It's a problem because it's a huge risk. Like I said earlier, one of the major reasons for Xbox 360 exclusives early in this generation is that Microsoft was handing out millions of dollars to get timed exclusives or actual exclusives. Very few developers are going to pour massive resources into a new and hereto unreleased platform with an unknown user base in the hopes that they can then port versions to the 360 and the PS3. They just don't have unlimited development resources. The smarter move is to do what they are doing now and taking stuff that has been released on the 360 and PS3 and just porting it with some WiiU specific content. Frankly, I don't think it's going to matter much. The vast bulk of WiiU sales are going to be first party titles again and you'll have a few companies like Ubisoft doing stuff for launch and then doing multi platform stuff once the new Xbox and PS3 are released. Yes, it's not ideal for Nintendo, but that's why you don't have a ton of exclusives on the radar at this point from third parties.

[Leo_A]

Again, virtually all reports place the power of this console as being comparable with the Xbox 360 (released in late 2005) and the Playstation 3 (Released in late 2006). The only change of any sort of significance is that this controller has a touch screen incorporated on it.

I really doubt it's going to be a massive expenditure over a touch screen. What makes you think Wii U development is going to be so massively different from Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 development? Heck, with Kinect and Move being at least mixed successes, they even can bring over motion projects to both platforms now.

It simply isn't an issue. If the Wii U was a huge step up from the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3, I'd have some concern that 3rd party development wouldn't be taking full advantage of those resources early on until the Xbox 720 and Playstation 4 hit and they can maximize their exposure for their step up in development cost they'd surely be facing.

But unless it's one of the best kept secrets in the history of videogaming, the Wii U isn't such a powerhouse. It's a contemporary console with technical capabilities comparable to the competition that has been on the marketplace for over half a decade now. It's essentially obsolete last generation technology where its processing capabilities are concerned.

The only risk I see in 3rd party Wii U development is the question if the Nintendo fanbase of the past few years is going to suddenly start paying attention to 3rd party software. If consumers answer that with a resounding yes, I have no doubt it's going to see healthy software development from 3rd parties with quality projects (That they'll port over to the 360 and PS3 if they want them to be multiplatform while the world waits for Microsoft and Sony to replace their platforms).

[Bojay1997]

I think we aren't talking about the same thing here. The post of mine that touched off the exchange was an observation that people had unrealistic expectations about what Nintendo was going to reveal at E3 and specifically about what third party developers were going to announce on the WiiU exclusive wise. I have no doubt that the WiiU will continue to get ports of 360 and PS3 stuff with some enhancement and that AAA titles will be ported for release at the same time as the 360 and PS3. Similarly, once the next generation MS and PS consoles are released, developers will likely continue releasing AAA games on all three assuming each has a substantial user base. That has nothing to do with exclusives and the economics behind development for the next generation.

My point is that there are going to be fewer and fewer exclusives on every platform (Microsoft and Sony each showed a few, but it's certainly not the volume it was a few years ago) as it's just too expensive to focus on what amounts to a small fraction of the user base. With a few exceptions, the only exclusives that are likely to be released this generation and next are from first party developers or third parties that are heavily dependent on one console manufacturer or another for funding.

The proof is in the announcements. If developers thought the approach of developing for WiiU first and later releasing on the 360 and PS3 was the smart one, many of them would be on board with either timed exclusive games or new IPs for the console and Nintendo would have been celebrating that fact in one of their many press junkets. The fact that only a small handful of developers (Ubisoft appears to be the only major at this point) have anything unique planned for the console imakes it clear that most don't think the risk is worth the reward right now.

The industry is getting more risk averse and the result is that everyone is taking a wait and see approach for new product until all three of the next gen platforms are released. That's my only point. There were very few exclusives because it wasn't financially attractive for developers to create them just yet for the WiiU.

Again, virtually all reports place the power of this console as being comparable with the Xbox 360 (released in late 2005) and the Playstation 3 (Released in late 2006). The only change of any sort of significance is that this controller has a touch screen incorporated on it.

I really doubt it's going to be a massive expenditure over a touch screen. What makes you think Wii U development is going to be so massively different from Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 development? Heck, with Kinect and Move being at least mixed successes, they even can bring over motion projects to both platforms now.

It simply isn't an issue. If the Wii U was a huge step up from the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3, I'd have some concern that 3rd party development wouldn't be taking full advantage of those resources early on until the Xbox 720 and Playstation 4 hit and they can maximize their exposure for their step up in development cost they'd surely be facing.

But unless it's one of the best kept secrets in the history of videogaming, the Wii U isn't such a powerhouse. It's a contemporary console with technical capabilities comparable to the competition that has been on the marketplace for over half a decade now. It's essentially obsolete last generation technology where its processing capabilities are concerned.

The only risk I see in 3rd party Wii U development is the question if the Nintendo fanbase of the past few years is going to suddenly start paying attention to 3rd party software. If consumers answer that with a resounding yes, I have no doubt it's going to see healthy software development from 3rd parties with quality projects (That they'll port over to the 360 and PS3 if they want them to be multiplatform while the world waits for Microsoft and Sony to replace their platforms).

[Trumpman]

I'm going to be very interested in the Wii U sales numbers. I was very bummed out with how the Wii turned out (except for the Mario Galaxies, Metroid Prime 3 and a few others there were very few game-games that I was interested in, and let's not mention the graphics.) and almost never played it at the end. While the Wii U does sound cool, and I do LOVE Pikmin, there's nothing here that makes me want to pick up a console within the first year of launch. (We don't even know if Pikmin is a launch title anyway)

Honestly, I think that Nintendo hit a flash in the pan with the runaway success of the Wii this generation. And even now, the Wii's bubble burst about two years ago. The sales have slowed dramatically in the past two years. How many non-gamers do you know that picked up a Wii for Wii Sports and maybe Wii Play or whatever and never bought another game? I know tons. My relatives' nursing home bought a Wii, for god's sakes. Why would those people buy a new console with a presumably expensive touch screen controller when Wii Sports was all they wanted in the first place? I will be shocked if the Wii U's sales come anywhere near the Wii's. In fact, I think they'll be closer to the 3DS's.

[Rob2600]

The 3DS is actually outselling the DS during its first year and a half.

[Trumpman]

The 3DS is actually outselling the DS during its first year and a half.

I meant total sales, not sales to date. The DS also had a slow start, remember how there was nothing out for it and then suddenly everything was out for it?

It would be shocking if the 3DS ever sold 150 million units. Mobile gaming is cutting into a huge part of Nintendo (and Sony's) market.

[Zap!]

Not a bad day for Nintendo, but I would have liked them to have announce Resident Evil 6. I am also very disappointed that the regular controllers it uses (the non-screen ones) are just Wii-motes. I would have liked them to be smaller, or at least a bit different. I also would have liked them to totally drop the "Wii" name in their new console, but that wasn't gonna happen.

I was surprised that I didn't hear a price or date announced. Any official word?

[Rev. Link]

I was, overall, pretty happy with Nintendo's presentations. Would I have liked to see more? Absolutely. But we got a couple of heavy hitters in Pikmin and Mario, and some cool third party stuff. I was real happy to see Mass Effect 3 announced for the Wii U. Sure, I've already played it, but it was encouraging to see a franchise that is undeniably "mature" and "hardcore" announced for a Nintendo system. Along with things like Assassin's Creed, Darksiders, Batman, etc., it says to me that Nintendo is serious about trying to recapture the core gaming crowd while they continue to make their dance and fitness stuff for the casual fans. And that's good. It's pretty much the same thing Microsoft is doing now with Kinect, just in the opposite direction. I know those were all ports that were announced, but it's a start.

I know a lot of people were bummed to not hear about things like Zelda, Metroid, Animal Crossing on 3DS, or whatever Retro's working on, but all that will come eventually. It's Nintendo. They're not going to *not* release those games.

Even though I still don't like the name Wii U, I'm definitely ready to pick one up on day one.

[RCM]

I meant total sales, not sales to date. The DS also had a slow start, remember how there was nothing out for it and then suddenly everything was out for it?

It would be shocking if the 3DS ever sold 150 million units. Mobile gaming is cutting into a huge part of Nintendo (and Sony's) market.

Agree. While it may be true 3DS outsold DS in it's first year, the implication by Nintendo is a distortion. Due to market conditions and a general lack of demand, it is highly unlikely 3DS will touch (no pun intended) DS lifetime sales.

[WCP]

I was surprised that I didn't hear a price or date announced. Any official word?

No price or date was announced. Most folks believe that it will cost as low as $249.99 or as high as $349.99. The smart money is on $299, because most likely Nintendo will be able to sell out of their initial shipments to the hardcore Nintendo diehards. They can always drop the price in Spring 2013 if they feel they need to. Personally, I think $249.99 would be a MUCH smarter move for them, but would be a bit shocked if it came in that low. $349.99 would be a VERY bad move imo.

As for the date, most are expecting Sunday November 18th to the be the launch date. I know that Sunday is kinda weird, but Nintendo likes to launch things on Sunday so it makes sense. It's like 5 days before Black Friday, so it makes sense that they would completely sell out in a couple of days, and then have another shipment arrive just in time for Black Friday.

[Bojay1997]

Somebody found a page on Walmart.com that's showing a price of $349.99. Obviously that could change or could be just a placeholder, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the price given the expense of the pad and the fact that it will likely come with Nintendoland as the pack-in game.

No price or date was announced. Most folks believe that it will cost as low as $249.99 or as high as $349.99. The smart money is on $299, because most likely Nintendo will be able to sell out of their initial shipments to the hardcore Nintendo diehards. They can always drop the price in Spring 2013 if they feel they need to. Personally, I think $249.99 would be a MUCH smarter move for them, but would be a bit shocked if it came in that low. $349.99 would be a VERY bad move imo.

As for the date, most are expecting Sunday November 18th to the be the launch date. I know that Sunday is kinda weird, but Nintendo likes to launch things on Sunday so it makes sense. It's like 5 days before Black Friday, so it makes sense that they would completely sell out in a couple of days, and then have another shipment arrive just in time for Black Friday.

[The 1 2 P]

Somebody found a page on Walmart.com that's showing a price of $349.99. Obviously that could change or could be just a placeholder, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the price given the expense of the pad and the fact that it will likely come with Nintendoland as the pack-in game.

I could also see that as the price, mainly because I don't think there are that many people that would run out and purchase this system for $400 or above. And thats really not Nintendo's style anyway. $300-$350 seems about right and the reason I could see them going with $350 first is because they could use that as a test measure before dropping to $300.

[Leo_A]

First I've seen of a release date rumor. I wonder when they're going to pinpoint something. I don't think the Tokyo Game Show is until September which seems like awfully short notice when the console is widely expected to be released in the September-November timeframe.

My point is that there are going to be fewer and fewer exclusives on every platform (Microsoft and Sony each showed a few, but it's certainly not the volume it was a few years ago) as it's just too expensive to focus on what amounts to a small fraction of the user base. With a few exceptions, the only exclusives that are likely to be released this generation and next are from first party developers or third parties that are heavily dependent on one console manufacturer or another for funding.

The proof is in the announcements. If developers thought the approach of developing for WiiU first and later releasing on the 360 and PS3 was the smart one, many of them would be on board with either timed exclusive games or new IPs for the console and Nintendo would have been celebrating that fact in one of their many press junkets. The fact that only a small handful of developers (Ubisoft appears to be the only major at this point) have anything unique planned for the console imakes it clear that most don't think the risk is worth the reward right now.

The industry is getting more risk averse and the result is that everyone is taking a wait and see approach for new product until all three of the next gen platforms are released. That's my only point. There were very few exclusives because it wasn't financially attractive for developers to create them just yet for the WiiU.

An exclusive means it's exclusive to that platform. Games that will be appearing on multiple platforms aren't exclusives. They're not the same thing.

The situation on the Wii U isn't going to have anything to do with Nintendo being the first out of the gate. 3rd party game development is going to all reside with how successful this platform is and the buying habits of its install base after Nintendo platforms have garnered a reputation as being a poor environment for 3rd party publishers to succeed in. Like you said, the economic realities of this business these days makes it where unless it's published by the console manufacturer itself or they pay a lot of money to make a project exclusive, it's all but guaranteed to appear on multiple platforms.

The lack of 3rd party exclusives isn't going to be because they're first out of the gate by a significant margin and the situation would be the same if a Xbox 720 and Playstation 4 were releasing alongside this console in the Fall. It's simply the economic realities of the industry itself at play keeping exclusives away no matter how supportive publishers are of this platform. And the apparant lack of 3rd party publisher support in general seems likely due to past patterns. They're going to have to be convinced the situation has changed and that a publisher other than Nintendo can thrive on a Nintendo console since even multiplatform releases have had a tough going on Nintendo platforms in the past (let alone a big name exclusive like you seem to be wishing they had).

S the situation with the Wii U has nothing to do with being first out of the gate since if a publisher wants a project to be multiplatform, they have two thriving consoles of similar horsepower and capabilities (besides the touch screen) to bring their projects to. They're not going to have to wait for Sony and Microsoft to bring new consoles to market to reach critical mass where they can justify creating a project since they have the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 with comparable capabilities that are at the height of their lifespans to expand the base they have to sell to.

The lack of 3rd party support at this point is all about how things played out on the Nintendo Wii and to a lesser extent, the GameCube and Nintendo 64. Has nothing to do with being 1st out for this upcoming generation.

[WCP]

Somebody found a page on Walmart.com that's showing a price of $349.99. Obviously that could change or could be just a placeholder, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the price given the expense of the pad and the fact that it will likely come with Nintendoland as the pack-in game.

Man, if Nintendo really does that $350 price, I'll be a bit shocked. I mean, I won't be too shocked, but just dumbfounded I guess.... I mean, the thing that has to be understood, is that the controller that they are including doesn't have a OLED multitouch screen. The screen on it isn't really high-def, and it's single touch. The controller doesn't have any special hardware inside it, just a wireless thing to receive signals from the console. I know Nintendo could get away with selling an individual Wii U Gamepad for $99.99, but I'd imagine it costs them no more than $60 to manufacture. $84.99 would be a more realistic price for an extra Gamepad, but again, we know that Nintendo likes to price things on the high side of the spectrum.

Also, you have the fact that the Wii U console itself is only bringing their technology up to the current standard. The way I understand it, is that it's not really much more powerful than the 360 or PS3. Only slightly more powerful. Why would they need to charge more than $299 for it ? (I'm not saying they won't, I just don't think it's necessary. If they are supplied constrained, then I can understand it, but otherwise... ?) Remember the current economic environment in the USA right now. The Great Recession started to look like it had ended, but it seems like it's trying to make a comeback. I have a hard time seeing a $350 device selling really well without an unbelievable killer app. The Zelda game that they showed last year could have done the trick, but I really doubt that Nintendo Land is going to be their Wii Sports like they think it is.

[Bojay1997]

I can't say I disagree and perhaps that's why they're taking a wait and see approach to the launch date and price. It will be interesting to see the first teardown with a bill of parts, but I would think $350 isn't crazy given the current MSRP of the base Xbox 360 4 Gig is $200 and my understanding is that the margins on it are only something like $20 (about 10%) a unit. Throw in the controller and game and $300 seems like the minimum they could really hit and still make some profit. You're right though, $300 is hard in this economy even with a pack-in game.

Man, if Nintendo really does that $350 price, I'll be a bit shocked. I mean, I won't be too shocked, but just dumbfounded I guess.... I mean, the thing that has to be understood, is that the controller that they are including doesn't have a OLED multitouch screen. The screen on it isn't really high-def, and it's single touch. The controller doesn't have any special hardware inside it, just a wireless thing to receive signals from the console. I know Nintendo could get away with selling an individual Wii U Gamepad for $99.99, but I'd imagine it costs them no more than $60 to manufacture. $84.99 would be a more realistic price for an extra Gamepad, but again, we know that Nintendo likes to price things on the high side of the spectrum.

Also, you have the fact that the Wii U console itself is only bringing their technology up to the current standard. The way I understand it, is that it's not really much more powerful than the 360 or PS3. Only slightly more powerful. Why would they need to charge more than $299 for it ? (I'm not saying they won't, I just don't think it's necessary. If they are supplied constrained, then I can understand it, but otherwise... ?) Remember the current economic environment in the USA right now. The Great Recession started to look like it had ended, but it seems like it's trying to make a comeback. I have a hard time seeing a $350 device selling really well without an unbelievable killer app. The Zelda game that they showed last year could have done the trick, but I really doubt that Nintendo Land is going to be their Wii Sports like they think it is.

[Bojay1997]

Agreed. All we were talking about was exclusives, however. The combination of the changes in the economics of the industry, bad experiences with the Wii and frankly an unclear landscape for the next generation are all making developers hold off on doing WiiU exclusives at this point. Nobody is going to dump tons of resources into a next generation game and make it Nintendo exclusive. They also aren't going to do that for the Xbox 720 or PS4 until it's clear that there is some reason to do so.

I'm pretty sure we don't actually disagree about anything. Like I said, my point initially was just that people had very unrealistic expectations that Nintendo was going to deliver a bunch of exclusive third party games during their E3 presentation. Heck, Microsoft and Sony barely had any during their presentations and both have huge install bases and generally good relationships with third party developers.

First I've seen of a release date rumor. I wonder when they're going to pinpoint something. I don't think the Tokyo Game Show is until September which seems like awfully short notice when the console is widely expected to be released in the September-November timeframe.



An exclusive means it's exclusive to that platform. Games that will be appearing on multiple platforms aren't exclusives. They're not the same thing.

The situation on the Wii U isn't going to have anything to do with Nintendo being the first out of the gate. 3rd party game development is going to all reside with how successful this platform is and the buying habits of its install base after Nintendo platforms have garnered a reputation as being a poor environment for 3rd party publishers to succeed in. Like you said, the economic realities of this business these days makes it where unless it's published by the console manufacturer itself or they pay a lot of money to make a project exclusive, it's all but guaranteed to appear on multiple platforms. The lack of 3rd party exclusives isn't going to be because they're first out of the gate by a significant margin and the situation would be the same if a Xbox 720 and Playstation 4 were releasing alongside this console in the Fall. It's simply the economic realities of the industry itself at play keeping exclusives away no matter how supportive publishers are of this platform. And the apparant lack of 3rd party publisher support in general seems likely due to past patterns. They're going to have to be convinced the situation has changed and that a publisher other than Nintendo can thrive on a Nintendo console since even multiplatform releases have had a tough going on Nintendo platforms in the past.

S the situation with the Wii U has nothing to do with being first out of the gate since if a publisher wants a project to be multiplatform, they have two thriving consoles of similar horsepower and capabilities (besides the touch screen) to bring their projects to. They're not going to have to wait for Sony and Microsoft to bring new consoles to market to reach critical mass where they can justify creating a project since they have the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 with comparable capabilities that are at the height of their lifespans to expand the base they have to sell to.

The lack of 3rd party support at this point is all about how things played out on the Nintendo Wii and to a lesser extent, the GameCube and Nintendo 64. Has nothing to do with being 1st out for this upcoming generation.