NES toaster vs. top loader

[Flam]

Okay, so about a year ago I rediscovered my love for Nintendo I had when I was younger. I've always had systems (Atari 2600, NES, SEGA Genisis, N64 and Dreamcast) but have always viewed my fondest gaming years with the NES. Anyway, after being out of gaming for a long time I bought an NES and have been having alot of fun rediscovering old games and what not. My question is about the NES top loader. I never had one of these as a kid, but wanted to know if this system is one I need to look into purchasing. Is it more durable than my toaster design? Is this something that is more of a collectors thing, or is it a system that most die hard NES fans own? My system now is working fine, but again I don't know about the longevitey as compared to the top loader. Again, I'm partial to the toaster because that's what I grew up with, however I might look into making a switch if it's worth it in the long run. Any input is appreciated.

[Urzu402]

Okay, so about a year ago I rediscovered my love for Nintendo I had when I was younger. I've always had systems (Atari 2600, NES, SEGA Genisis, N64 and Dreamcast) but have always viewed my fondest gaming years with the NES. Anyway, after being out of gaming for a long time I bought an NES and have been having alot of fun rediscovering old games and what not. My question is about the NES top loader. I never had one of these as a kid, but wanted to know if this system is one I need to look into purchasing. Is it more durable than my toaster design? Is this something that is more of a collectors thing, or is it a system that most die hard NES fans own? My system now is working fine, but again I don't know about the longevitey as compared to the top loader. Again, I'm partial to the toaster because that's what I grew up with, however I might look into making a switch if it's worth it in the long run. Any input is appreciated.

The Top Loader is more reliable, but doesnt have composite out. The toaster is a pain to get to work but has composite out. Thats pretty much the difference, so do you go for ease of getting games to work, or do you want video quality over that?

[HyruleHero]

Okay, so about a year ago I rediscovered my love for Nintendo I had when I was younger. I've always had systems (Atari 2600, NES, SEGA Genisis, N64 and Dreamcast) but have always viewed my fondest gaming years with the NES. Anyway, after being out of gaming for a long time I bought an NES and have been having alot of fun rediscovering old games and what not. My question is about the NES top loader. I never had one of these as a kid, but wanted to know if this system is one I need to look into purchasing. Is it more durable than my toaster design? Is this something that is more of a collectors thing, or is it a system that most die hard NES fans own? My system now is working fine, but again I don't know about the longevitey as compared to the top loader. Again, I'm partial to the toaster because that's what I grew up with, however I might look into making a switch if it's worth it in the long run. Any input is appreciated.

Both great systems....The toaster is more readily available. You can find a top loader on eBay but it will cost you a little, not crazy but a little. Top loader is only RF output unless you know to mod. THE TOASTER is both RF and AV compatible. The top loader is more durable and you will have an easier time getting the games to work, but if you maintain your toaster it will work fine also. You can also buy a new 72 pin connector for the toaster on eBay for like $10. This is the what the games plug into, it's an easy fix to get your toaster working like a champ. If you have a Game Genie you want use on your NES, using it on the top loader is troublesome. The end of the Game Genie is too thick for the top loader. Gallon actually made an adapter, very rare, most likely you cannot find and if you do will be pricey. You are fine with your toaster but if you can find a top loader for a good price, they are fun to have. This is just my opinion, hope it helps

[treismac]

All four of my Toasters works great since I keep them as well as my games clean. I also took the NES10 Chip out of commission in all but one of them, which kills the blinking. It is an easy enough operation with the right tools, and I can't recommend it highly enough to those who use the original NES. The Top Loader's appeal to me is strictly as an interesting addition to my NES collection that I occasionally wipe the dust off of (literally and figuratively) or show to polite friends who feign an interest in my collection. Functionally speaking, I hate its lack of AV outs and "jail bars" (vertical lines). I am thankful, however, for the dogbone controllers that came out with it as they meld with my hands much more sweetly than the original controllers do.

[CRTGAMER]

Definitely a toaster for the Composite over RF. Durability is not as big an issue now compared to when the NES first came out. A toaster will not get the eject/insert cart swap mileage since other consoles are on the table competing for play time. One thing is never leave a game cart plugged in if not in use. Any consoles connector springs will "remember" the new tension, with the toaster putting the worse pressure. Just clean any cart contact you buy before you pop them in.

Also do not use a Game Genie with a Toaster, the thicker PCB connector going in at an angle is the quickest way to kill a NES console connector.

[sloan]

If you are interested in playing PAL games in your NTSC NES front loader, forget about it. It can be modified to do so by disabling 10NES, but is work. The top loader does not have 10NES so any region NES games will play in it fine. There are some PAL exclusive games, so this is worth considering.

Off topic: Where did you come up with the name "Flam"? Just wondering.

[Flam]

Flam is an old nick name, and before you ask, no not that is not a picture of me either.

I think I'm going to stay with the toaster, it's what I grew up playing, plus I'd rather have the good visual anyway. I've done research and know how to keep my games clean and I have some back up 72 pin connectors. Maybe the next step would be to get that 10chip out. If someone could give me insight on that I'd appreciate it. Is there a tutorial on line on how to do it, if it's too hard and might damage my system I might just leave it alone. Plus my system slides into a small self, if I was to get the toap loader, the system would be too tall to fit and I'd have to rearrage. Bottom line, I'm going to be militant about keeping my sysstem clean and it will all work out.

Thanks for all you input!

[Firebrand118]

for the casual player the toploader is probably the best choice as it is very reliable, even if your game is dirty it will most likely work. The vertical bars are a pain but you get used to them after awhile. The toaster using composite out looks much better but most are difficult to get to work due to a design flaw where the NES pins become bent from games being pushed down. You can remedy that by replacing the 72-pin connector but you will have to disassemble the NES to do that. I prefer the toaster because of the quality personally but I know many who swear by the toploader. A lot comes down to personal preferance really, what means more to you reliability or quality.

[Schiggidyd]

It is unlikely, but I had a big pile of RF adapters, over 15, most of them gave me the average crappy signal.
However, a very small amount of them were able to give me a very nice signal, I honestly couldn't tell the video quality difference.
I regret not keeping this RF adapter and hooking up my Top-Loader.
It comes down to luck, I think the latest models of RF adapters were built better.

[treismac]

Maybe the next step would be to get that 10chip out. If someone could give me insight on that I'd appreciate it. Is there a tutorial on line on how to do it, if it's too hard and might damage my system I might just leave it alone.

I bought jewelry pliers just to take the pin out. It's super small and snags that thin strip of metal perfectly. Don't worry about the surgery! It isn't difficult to do if you have the right tools and it is very much worth it.

[markusman64ds]

I bought jewelry pliers just to take the pin out. It's super small and snags that thin strip of metal perfectly. Don't worry about the surgery! It isn't difficult to do if you have the right tools and it is very much worth it.

I cut the pin on the wrong side on two of my NES consoles. They don't work now.

But the one I did do it right on works great now! I also replaced the cartridge slot which is very easy to do. It's somewhat ironic that the game system with the worst cart slot is the easiest one to fix.

[Flam]

So explain to me again why taking out the NES10 chip is a good idea. I saw on the video that it said it allows unlicensed games to play, but then he said that over time it starts to block out licensed games? Will my NES eventually not recongnize games?

[BetaWolf47]

I am thankful, however, for the dogbone controllers that came out with it as they meld with my hands much more sweetly than the original controllers do.

Am I the only one who doesn't like the dogbone controllers? They must have the stiffest Nintendo dpad ever. It feels so unnatural.

It comes down to luck, I think the latest models of RF adapters were built better.

Those would be the ones that were included with the GameCube RF adapter kit then. I actually have three RF adapters, and they're all different.

[Flam]

I bought jewelry pliers just to take the pin out. It's super small and snags that thin strip of metal perfectly. Don't worry about the surgery! It isn't difficult to do if you have the right tools and it is very much worth it.

Where did you find these pilers? At Lowes or Home Depot?

[Aussie2B]

If you are interested in playing PAL games in your NTSC NES front loader, forget about it. It can be modified to do so by disabling 10NES, but is work. The top loader does not have 10NES so any region NES games will play in it fine. There are some PAL exclusive games, so this is worth considering.

Thanks for sharing that info, that's cool to know. I've actually had a PAL game running on my toploader before, when I had a friend from Europe staying over. I was really surprised that it worked; I had assumed that no PAL games would work on a US NES. I had no idea that the toploader was the only version of NES that could run PAL games straight out of the box.

Anyway, I have two toploaders and one original NES. I definitely prefer the original NES in terms of picture quality, but I think it's essential to have one that was well-maintained over the years, otherwise you're better off with a toploader. The one I have now is the second original NES I've had, and the first was nothing but frustration. No matter how well you clean your system and your games, a worn out original NES is still going to give you grief, even more so if you're trying to get it to run worn down games. A lot of people will say at that point "Oh, just get a new 72-pin." The problem there, though, is that just about all of those are cheap crap and only provide a temporary fix. They often start out so incredibly tight that it's not good for your games, not to mention the struggle to jam them in and yank them out, and once they start loosening up, it's just a downward slide until they get too loose, just like how the system was originally. I was lucky enough to find both a CIB original NES and CIB toploader at a garage sale a few years back, both looking as if they've never even been used before, so now that I have an original NES in fantastic shape, I can finally really enjoy its composite output. Although even it doesn't work flawlessly. My more worn out games can still take a lot of tries.

Same goes for the toploader, really. Some people make it out to be some sort of Superman of a system, but just as people can have problems with a SNES, Genesis, N64, etc., the toploader, even when cleaned and with clean games, won't always work 100%. I get failed attempts quite regularly (on my original used toploader; the mint one is more of a collectible than anything), but it's overall reliable enough to not cause frustration. The likelihood of a game working right off the bat is pretty high, and even with failed attempts, I'll usually get it going in a couple reinsertions. Of course, if you only buy really mint carts that look like they were barely played, you'll probably have a better success rate than me.

[treismac]

So explain to me again why taking out the NES10 chip is a good idea.

You wouldn't remove the entire chip, just one of the pins. I will not get into the technical aspects. It suffices to say that the chip purpose was to block out unlicensed NES games that did not have a corresponding chip, which was inside of licensed games, that acted as a key to communicate with the system's lockout chip, telling it to "play" the game. Overtime, the dirt and grime that covered the contacts of the games would disrupt this communication, causing the NES10 lockout chip to block licensed games by mistake. Read the article in the link below for more indepth info:

http://nesdev.parodius.com/nlockout.txt

Will my NES eventually not recongnize games?

The blinking on the television is the NES not recognizing games. A clean system and games should prevent this, but taking the lockout chip out of commission seals the deal.

[Aussie2B]

But if dirt or whatever else is preventing proper contact, it's not going to play anyway. Instead of a blinking grey/blue/etc. screen, it'll just be a solid grey/blue/etc. screen, just as the toploader does. You could theorize that in some cases the dirt is solely blocking communication with the chip, but I'd venture to guess that most instances of failed communication are across the board.

[The 1 2 P]

Get the toploader. It was no fun as a child having to constantly tinker with the toaster Nes trying to get your games to work. Better yet get the Japanese toploader if you can because it has standard a/v inputs. But it's a bit pricey though.

[A.C. Sativa]

This is why I love emulators. I have a toaster-style NES, but I'd rather just blow $15 on a USB SNES pad (works with the NES, SNES, Genesis/SMS/32X/Sega CD, and to some extent the N64), and play the games on this. Nearly 2000 games, all in 720p, no blinking or hadware failures or any of that crap, and I don't even have to get up when I want to play something different.

Few points on real hardware:

You can hook your top-loader to most DVD players (and VCRs), and hook that to the TV using the composites. Not perfect, but it works really well. Works on toaster models too, this is how I have mine hooked up.

I have 2 video game stores near me that will do the required surgery to bypass the lockout chip. Best to let the experts do it if taking shit apart isn't your thing. Costs about $10-20, a little extra cash under the table will get it done within an hour or so.

Buy a clone. My buddy has an FC Console, so far it's worked fine with all the games we've tried on it (though the audio is very slightly off on a few games). The controllers that come with it are crap, but it will take any real NES pad. Stay away from any "multi-system" clone. Much cheaper than a top-loader and has composite outputs.

Supposedly, if you can find the game Little Red Hood, it will bypass the 10-NES chip (the game requires a normal NES game plugged to the top, Game Genie style, to run). I'm not believing it (in fact it really makes no sense), and even if it does work it's certainly not the most cost-effective way to do this, Little Red Hood is quite rare, therefore expensive. It's also a really horrible game. I've heard there's some trick where you can take apart one of the unlicensed games that "zaps" the 10-NES chip and somehow make an adapter out of that. Doubt it works, and even it it did it's about the most complicated way to go about it.

Best bet is either the first or third option...

[BlastProcessing402]

Top loader is only RF output unless you know to mod.

They're rare, but there are are unmodded top loaders with the AV multiport out there. Most were only used as replacements (people would send in the RF only one to Nintendo and get back one with AV out) but there are a few reports of people having bought the AV out version at places like Meijers back in the day. My cousins had one with AV out. I never knew it was anything special until just a couple years ago. I should probably ask them if they still have it someplace.

No, I'm not confusing it with the AV Famicom.