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Thread: Silicon Knights ordered to recall and destroy all unsold Too Human, X-Men Destiny copies, source code

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    Default Silicon Knights ordered to recall and destroy all unsold Too Human, X-Men Destiny copies, source code

    And pay a lot of cash.

    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/09/si...games-judgment

    I'm not sure what to make of this... other than Silicon Knights is finished.
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    I don't get why either lawsuit would pass. Suing Epic because the engine isn't as good as they'd like it to be, Epic suing back because they modified the engine to make it run better. It's not like they didn't pay for the licensing of the engine with each of these games, just modified the engine. What damages did Epic really incur?
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    The Joystick article is bereft of details. What was the basis for the court deciding in Epic's favor? Why was the initial award to Epic subsequently doubled? What, if any statement, did SK have after the ruling? Does SK have enough capital to survive this?
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    Here's the info from articles about the first round - "The jury also found in Epic's favor on all of its counterclaims, namely that Silicon Knights breached the license agreement, misappropriated Epic's trade secrets, and infringed Epic's copyrights in the Unreal Engine 3 code.".

    Basically, Silicon Knights took the Unreal Engine 3 code and adapted it into their own custom game engine which is a violation of the license for Unreal Engine 3. I think it's safe to assume that Silicon Knights is pretty much done given that they already had financial issues prior to this latest verdict.

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    I wonder if anyone would pick up the IP for Eternal Darkness (Nintendo, maybe?) if SK goes under?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Jaye View Post
    I wonder if anyone would pick up the IP for Eternal Darkness (Nintendo, maybe?) if SK goes under?
    Is the ED IP really worth anything? I was under the impression Nintendo at least had a stake in the IP. I can't imagine a sequel to a 10 year old Gamecube title is something anyone is clamoring for beyond boards like Digital Press.
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    Epic must have some amazing lawyers if they were able to get 9.4 million in damages incurred plus the already licensed games having to be destroyed just for modifying code. I mean seriously. What damages did Epic really incur?

    After this incident, I can see developers writing up memos about this, that regardless if the development engine they're working on sucks ass and is inefficient for the product they're trying to develop, do not recode any of it to get around any limitations it may have without discussing before hand and getting an agreement that they can do so. Preferably a notarized agreement that they can prove this discussion took place.
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    Silicon Knights made a presentation for a Eternal Darkness sequel to secure funding for the project but no one was interested. Thats another reason they have financial problems today. Next generation Silicon Knights and THQ are all but guaranteed to no longer exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    Epic must have some amazing lawyers if they were able to get 9.4 million in damages incurred plus the already licensed games having to be destroyed just for modifying code. I mean seriously. What damages did Epic really incur?

    After this incident, I can see developers writing up memos about this, that regardless if the development engine they're working on sucks ass and is inefficient for the product they're trying to develop, do not recode any of it to get around any limitations it may have without discussing before hand and getting an agreement that they can do so. Preferably a notarized agreement that they can prove this discussion took place.
    Well, let's see. Epic suffered negative publicity and potential lost revenue because Silicon Knights blamed them for development delays and issues despite the fact that every other developer on the planet seemed perfectly capable of working with UE3 successfully. Then, Silicon Knights took Epic's protected IP and created a new engine using the stolen IP. There is already a very standard and well understood licensing agreement that every developer signs when they obtain UE3 or any other game development engine. Silicon Knights breached that agreement multiple times according to the jury and therefore, they have to pay damages for doing so. There is no mystery or surprise here and I find it hard to believe that experienced people who understand how critical it is to protect IP didn't know they were violating the licensing agreement when they created their own engine using large portions of the UE3 code.

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    Does this mean we should all head out and buy Too Human and X-Men Destiny before they become OMG SUPER RARE?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Well, let's see. Epic suffered negative publicity and potential lost revenue because Silicon Knights blamed them for development delays and issues despite the fact that every other developer on the planet seemed perfectly capable of working with UE3 successfully.
    Here's an article from back then. There's a list of delayed games that used UE3 at the bottom.

    http://kotaku.com/280548/unreal-engi...roken-and-late
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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    Here's an article from back then. There's a list of delayed games that used UE3 at the bottom.

    http://kotaku.com/280548/unreal-engi...roken-and-late
    Yes, and if you had bothered to read the article, you would know that all the author of the article did is list every game that was built on UE3 which had been delayed. Not a single one of the developers ever said it was because of UE3 or any other specific reason. Obviously, Silicon Knights wasn't able to present very compelling evidence that the engine was broken as their claims were dismissed.

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    The damages assessed are arbitrary and bogus, but I really don't have much sympathy for SK. The impression I've always gotten from interviews and articles is that the guys in charge at SK are arrogant, unethical blowhards that lack the vision and talent to back up their egos, and from talking with a couple of acquaintances who are former SK employees, that doesn't seem to be too far off the mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Yes, and if you had bothered to read the article, you would know that all the author of the article did is list every game that was built on UE3 which had been delayed. Not a single one of the developers ever said it was because of UE3 or any other specific reason. Obviously, Silicon Knights wasn't able to present very compelling evidence that the engine was broken as their claims were dismissed.
    I read the article. It's not like the article announces other games were delayed, so in order to see that list on the bottom I would have had to do some reading. Most of the article was about Silicon Knights complaints, but it also mentioned in the very first paragraph Sony's statement about how UE3 has problems and Sony is going to be helping Epic on getting it to work to the best of its potential. The only time Sony makes statements like that is when there's a problem. One of these most recent statements is how Sony is working with Bethesda on getting the Skyrim DLC working on the PS3 version.

    So if Sony comes out on E3 and explains that there's an issue with UE3 that they're trying to help get resolved, it means there's some sort of problem.

    Also, here's a link to a mixture of other development complaints and agreements based on complaints that you would have read on the original post. Quotes from developers defending the UE3, but a lot of other developers agreeing with stuff that Silicon Knights stated. Silicon Knights thinks that Epic withheld the updates on purpose, which no one can tell if that's true or not, but it is true that they didn't receive promised features and instead of Epic working on getting these features to the developers so they could keep up with their schedules, they continued keeping up with their own schedule and then update the software that should have been updated and working in the first place.

    http://www.shacknews.com/article/480...nreal-engine-3

    Remember Lost Odyssey was one of the games listed that was delayed. Well. Here's a developer complaint for that. They don't specifically mention Lost Odyssey, but add two and two together, and there you go. This was posted in 08/2007, Lost Odyssey wasn't released until 02/2008.

    http://www.qj.net/qjnet/xbox-360/mor...ne-3-woes.html

    The only thing I really agree with is stealing chunks of code when doing their own engine, but the amount of money Epic was awarded from it when the engine has yet to be used was ridiculous. Epic didn't actually lose anything from that when the engine wasn't used. As for the bad publicity, Epic deserves it when their product isn't as advertised.
    Last edited by kupomogli; 11-10-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    I read the article. It's not like the article announces other games were delayed, so in order to see that list on the bottom I would have had to do some reading. Most of the article was about Silicon Knights complaints, but it also mentioned in the very first paragraph Sony's statement about how UE3 has problems and Sony is going to be helping Epic on getting it to work to the best of its potential. The only time Sony makes statements like that is when there's a problem. One of these most recent statements is how Sony is working with Bethesda on getting the Skyrim DLC working on the PS3 version.

    So if Sony comes out on E3 and explains that there's an issue with UE3 that they're trying to help get resolved, it means there's some sort of problem.

    Also, here's a link to a mixture of other development complaints and agreements based on complaints that you would have read on the original post. Quotes from developers defending the UE3, but a lot of other developers agreeing with stuff that Silicon Knights stated. Silicon Knights thinks that Epic withheld the updates on purpose, which no one can tell if that's true or not, but it is true that they didn't receive promised features and instead of Epic working on getting these features to the developers so they could keep up with their schedules, they continued keeping up with their own schedule and then update the software that should have been updated and working in the first place.

    http://www.shacknews.com/article/480...nreal-engine-3

    Remember Lost Odyssey was one of the games listed that was delayed. Well. Here's a developer complaint for that. They don't specifically mention Lost Odyssey, but add two and two together, and there you go. This was posted in 08/2007, Lost Odyssey wasn't released until 02/2008.

    http://www.qj.net/qjnet/xbox-360/mor...ne-3-woes.html

    The only thing I really agree with is stealing chunks of code when doing their own engine, but the amount of money Epic was awarded from it when the engine has yet to be used was ridiculous. Epic didn't actually lose anything from that when the engine wasn't used. As for the bad publicity, Epic deserves it when their product isn't as advertised.
    I'll give you credit for having no reservations about forming your opinions with no real facts to back them up. You have no idea what evidence the jury was presented with and how much what SK did impacted Epic financially. The verdict could be out of proportion to the actual damages or it might be too little. You simply have no way to know either way and it's pretty laughable that you have reached a conclusion simply because you've decided that one company is somehow morally superior to another company.

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