There's just no substitute for Tempest 2000 Jaguar version.

[Teddman]

The original version is far and away the best... I'd heard that the Saturn version improved the game a bit due to its smoother framerate and better sound, but those were all lies. :/

Differences between the two:

-Jaguar version has better music during the title screen.
Saturn has really bad techno music dubbed over the title and options menus... I don't remember that in the Jag version.

-Jag version has cool "melting" transitional effects in the menus
When you select an option, the screen seems to melt and zoom in as it fades away. Nothing of the sort in the other versions.

-The music dynamically changes depending on your performance in the game, in the Saturn version it just plays.
So if you get killed in the Jag version, the techno tune becomes more subdued and usually drops down to just a drumline. Likewise, if you're doing awesome the tune really gets crazy with all the bells and whistles.

-No cool Game Over music in the Saturn version
The Jag version has this cool foreboding drumline... Removed entirely in other versions.

Anyone notice any other differences? I guess the original version is the best when it comes to Tempest 2000...

[christianscott27]

...i never saw anyone make a saturn controller paddle mod like the one i have for my jaguar.

[Raedon]

I hear you brother, the only reason I have a Jag is Tempest 2000.

Actually it is the only game I play on the Jag.

[zmeston]

But are there any significant differences in the gameplay?

-- Z.

[Gunstarhero]

But are there any significant differences in the gameplay?

-- Z.

I can't say for the Saturn version, but the PSX version had a craptastic AI Droid that didn't actually contain any A.I. of its own. It just followed your ship around instead of blasting enemies on its own. Haven't we done this before?

[zmeston]

But are there any significant differences in the gameplay?

-- Z.

I can't say for the Saturn version, but the PSX version had a craptastic AI Droid that didn't actually contain any A.I. of its own. It just followed your ship around instead of blasting enemies on its own. Haven't we done this before?

We have, but I've still yet to play the PlayStation and Jaguar versions side-by-side to verify your claim. Of course, now that you've mentioned the alleged A.I. difference, he'll surely mention it, too, whereas I was hoping he might mention that difference on his own. The fact that he didn't mention it in his initial post makes me wonder, as surely a "dumb" A.I. Droid would be much more noticeable than insignificant cosmetic alterations.

EDIT: I excavated my Jaguar from the box in which it's lived since 1996 and booted up T2K alongside the PlayStation version of Tempest X3. The AI Droid is indeed dumbed down in the PlayStation version, but what you failed to mention, and what makes all the difference, is that the dumbing-down is quite obviously intentional, and not a programming fuck-up as you made it seem. I think this was a wise design decision on High Voltage's part, as T2K's Droid lessens the difficulty level and the fun factor. (High Voltage should've dropped the "AI" from the Droid's name, however, and I intend to badger them about this at the Classic Gaming Expo.)

Graphically, TX3 is the indisputable winner: cleaner polygons, texture-mapped webs, smoother movement when playing with the zoomed-in view, and a wise design alteration in toning down some of Minter's action-obscuring special effects. T2K has its melting menus, but that's literally its only visual "advantage"; TX3's smoother movement and clearer graphics during gameplay are much more important.

As for the sound/music, I didn't detect the dynamic soundtracks in T2K mentioned above; the music seemed to play without variance on both versions, regardless of what happened on the screen. TX3's sound and music are slightly muffled in comparison to T2K, as if the former is running through a filter, but T2K's sound and music is occasionally very harsh, so it's a trade-off. T2K has the slight edge here.

In conclusion, TX3 is (just barely) better than T2K, and anyone who gets hung up on the A.I. Droid as "proof" of T2K's superiority is a Jaguar fanboy who's missing the forest for the trees.

And my Jaguar goes back into the box for the rest of time.

-- Z.

[ManekiNeko]

Guess I'll have to be the sole voice of dissent here. I genuinely do believe that the Saturn version of Tempest 2000 plays more smoothly than its Jaguar counterpart. I thought it was a good conversion (although I seem to be the only one who thinks so).

JR

[zmeston]

Guess I'll have to be the sole voice of dissent here. I genuinely do believe that the Saturn version of Tempest 2000 plays more smoothly than its Jaguar counterpart. I thought it was a good conversion (although I seem to be the only one who thinks so).

JR

If the Saturn version is identical to the PlayStation version (and I vaguely recall that it was), it's not a matter of belief -- it's a matter of fact.

Tempest 2000 is a great game, no question; it's just that the Saturn/PlayStation conversions are even better. I understand why this is discomfiting for Jaguar fanboys, but such is harsh reality.

-- Z.

[Steve Woita]

I so agreeeee, the Jag version is great.....(I've not played the Saturn version) I just wish there was a knob controller for the Jag....Sounds like someone's made one....I'd buy one of those....The knob is a must to complete the Tempest experince!

Steve

[IGotTheDot]

The Jag version is no substitute for the original though.

[Gunstarhero]

Zach, with respect, you asked for significant differences in Gameplay, and I gave you a GLARING difference. The AI Droid being programmed to do different actions totally alters the gameplay from it's original incarnation in T2K. If you like a DUMB AI BOT, and it is DUMB, then thats your right. I prefer an AI BOT that actually serves a purpose, like the original one in T2K.

I want to add that I didn't notice a Dynamic music thing going on in t2k either, but I always liked the original soundtrack more than what they put on tx3. Thats just a matter of subjectivity.

I know you have a grudge against the Jaguar, but there really is no need to try your damndest to smash even the best of its library.

There is no substitute for Jaguar T2K.

[zmeston]

Zach, with respect, you asked for significant differences in Gameplay, and I gave you a GLARING difference. The AI Droid being programmed to do different actions totally alters the gameplay from it's original incarnation in T2K. If you like a DUMB AI BOT, and it is DUMB, then thats your right. I prefer an AI BOT that actually serves a purpose, like the original one in T2K.

I want to add that I didn't notice a Dynamic music thing going on in t2k either, but I always liked the original soundtrack more than what they put on tx3. Thats just a matter of subjectivity.

I know you have a grudge against the Jaguar, but there really is no need to try your damndest to smash even the best of its library.

There is no substitute for Jaguar T2K.

Yes, you gave me one difference -- a difference in which the PS/Saturn version is superior, and a difference so "glaring" that the person who initiated this thread didn't even notice it.

The simplified Droid in TX3 forces the player into taking charge, which is exactly as it should be, and which is exactly why High Voltage (who converted T2K to the PS and Saturn) made the change. A shooter in which the console does all the shooting on your behalf isn't a game -- it's a demo mode. TX3's Droid is a power-up; T2K's Droid is a crutch.

I'm not "smashing" T2K. I already acknowledged in my previous post that it's a great game. But TX3 is better than T2K, and to think otherwise is just willful ignorance. Are Jaguar fans really so insecure? (Rhetorical question.)

I'm also wondering where the hell the original poster's totally incorrect "dynamic music in T2K" observation came from. Are Jaguar fans forced to invent reasons as to why T2K is better?

I hold no "grudge" against the Jaguar; I co-authored the official Jaguar strategy guide back in 1994, when every other publisher at the time apparently knew the Jaguar was doomed to failure. I didn't just give the Jaguar the benefit of the doubt, I had a financial stake in its success.

-- Z.

[Gunstarhero]

Yes, you gave me one difference -- a difference in which the PS/Saturn version is superior, and a difference so "glaring" that the person who initiated this thread didn't even notice it.

He also asked if there were other differences. You think its possible that different gamers notice different things about games? I think so.

The simplified Droid in TX3 forces the player into taking charge, which is exactly as it should be, and which is exactly why High Voltage (who converted T2K to the PS and Saturn) made the change. A shooter in which the console does all the shooting on your behalf isn't a game -- it's a demo mode. TX3's Droid is a power-up; T2K's Droid is a crutch.

The Droid in TX3 is obtained before the Droid in T2K if I remember correctly. In Jag Tempest, the Droid is hardly ever obtained in levels after 40 because the action is to frantic to get the 5 or 6 powerups required to get the AI Droid. The TX3 Droid is just 'there' shooting in the same spot as you, mindless..I would rather get a points powerup or Jump, its far more useful.

I'm not "smashing" T2K. I already acknowledged in my previous post that it's a great game. But TX3 is better than T2K, and to think otherwise is just willful ignorance. Are Jaguar fans really so insecure? (Rhetorical question.)

Yes you are trying to belittle the Jaguar in any way you can. I have yet to see you reply to a thread about the Jaguar without belittliing not only the game library, but the game players as well. You focus on purely the BAD about the Jaguar, while some of us like to point out the Good. I admit to bad things on the Jaguar, however I hardly ever have to point those out as there are plenty of people to point out the Negative. I don't feel its a completely worthless investment, contrary to you.

I'm also wondering where the hell the original poster's totally incorrect "dynamic music in T2K" observation came from. Are Jaguar fans forced to invent reasons as to why T2K is better?

See, here you make the case that all Jaguar fans are ignorant and fabricate evidence. As a Human Being, I've heard or seen things in Excitement that I eventually come to find were never present. Not with T2K, I already said there is no dynamic music, but rather it is possible he confuses the smooth transition of tracks with dynamic sound. The timing of the tunes is great, especially at the beginning of the game. The song kicks in the main beat precisely when you blast the first enemies on the first level. Outstanding, and somewhat dynamic, but due to timing.

I hold no "grudge" against the Jaguar; I co-authored the official Jaguar strategy guide back in 1994, when every other publisher at the time apparently knew the Jaguar was doomed to failure. I didn't just give the Jaguar the benefit of the doubt, I had a financial stake in its success.

Yes, you did a fine job on the strategy guide, I think I've complimented you before on this. Sorry zmeston, but I don't see anything but pure disdain and quite frankly, disgust from you whenever anyone says anything good about the Jaguar library of games. I feel you get offended by positive remarks regarding the Jaguar. You can say the same for Jag fans defending its games, but most of us realize that there are alot of crap games to be had. However I feel its important to point out the positive qualities of its library, which it has more than you give credit for.

[ManekiNeko]

Oh, give it a rest, GunstarHero. Zach Meston is trying to be diplomatic, and here you are acting like a jerk about it. If you want to see Jaguar bashing, keep it up and I'll give you a whole lot more than you can handle.

JR

[zmeston]

He also asked if there were other differences. You think its possible that different gamers notice different things about games? I think so.

I just find it bizarre that what you called a "glaring" difference, he didn't notice at all, preoccupied as he was with the nonexistent dynamic music (which would be a cool addition -- a Jag homebrewer should work on a hacked version of T2K with that feature).

The Droid in TX3 is obtained before the Droid in T2K if I remember correctly. In Jag Tempest, the Droid is hardly ever obtained in levels after 40 because the action is to frantic to get the 5 or 6 powerups required to get the AI Droid. The TX3 Droid is just 'there' shooting in the same spot as you, mindless..I would rather get a points powerup or Jump, its far more useful.

You remember incorrectly. The Droid is obtained with the same number of power-ups in both versions. Also, you receive the Jump with the same number of power-ups in both versions. Believe me, it was wonderful to have both versions running side by side and make direct, live comparisons.

Yes you are trying to belittle the Jaguar in any way you can. I have yet to see you reply to a thread about the Jaguar without belittliing not only the game library, but the game players as well. You focus on purely the BAD about the Jaguar, while some of us like to point out the Good.

I do admit to an immature joy in entering Jaguar-fan threads and playing devil's advocate, because Jaguar fans are amazingly touchy, even more so than typical fanboy cliques. It also fascinates me to hear the reasons for their fandom of the system with the worst software library of any post-NES console, including several of videogaming's all-time stinkers. It's blind faith in the face of overwhelming evidence.

See, here you make the case that all Jaguar fans are ignorant and fabricate evidence. As a Human Being, I've heard or seen things in Excitement that I eventually come to find were never present.

Nah, I was just being catty with that comment. Although it's safe to say that many Jaguar fans have a problem acknowledging that the system's library is terrible, and that the majority of the system's best games are available in superior versions on other consoles.

He's certainly not alone in making a mistake about nonexistent interactivity. At least a half-dozen times at CES and E3, I've seen people who thought they were in control of rolling demos.

Sorry zmeston, but I don't see anything but pure disdain and quite frankly, disgust from you whenever anyone says anything good about the Jaguar library of games. I feel you get offended by positive remarks regarding the Jaguar.

I'm more amused than offended by rabid console fandom, but I am offended by willful ignorance, and stating "there is no substitute for T2K" is willful ignorance. TX3 is a more-than-adequate "substitute" for anyone who owns a Saturn or PlayStation or PS2, as it's a better version of the game. Minter's initial design was great, but High Voltage improved upon it, thanks to wise design tweaks and the superior hardware of the Saturn and PlayStation.

-- Z.

[Gunstarhero]

Ok good post. You stated your opinion without belittling me and labeling me as a fanboy. I don't mind this one bit, we all have our preferences and opinions. The only reason I responded the way I did was the statement you made saying that "Tempest X3 is superior, and anyone who thinks otherwise is willfully ignorant". That kind of ticked me off because that makes me ignorant because I like T2K better? An uneccesary insult, as I don't consider myself stupid.

Just cause I got alittle perturbed in this thread doesn't mean shit. I think your cool along with just about every member on this board. Cheers.

[zektor]

Call me ignorant, I could care less...but I much prefer Tempest 2000 over 3000, and I think it plays the best on the Jaguar. And I am not a Jag fanboy...I actually no longer own one. Nuff said on my part :P

[zmeston]

Call me ignorant, I could care less...but I much prefer Tempest 2000 over 3000, and I think it plays the best on the Jaguar. And I am not a Jag fanboy...I actually no longer own one. Nuff said on my part :P

Tempest 3000 is a whole 'nuther topic, although you're right to prefer 2K; Minter went overboard with the F/X in 3K, and I couldn't stand to look at the Nuon's headache-blurry graphics.

-- Z.