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Thread: Slow Wii U sales?

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    Just to play the devil here, wasn't Zelda pretty much "open world" from the get-go? The first game started you weapon less and you had to meander about to find the levels. It wasn't a gargantuan world by today's standards nor did it have all the little side tasks, yet one could still consider it "open world".

    I WILL say that modern Zeldas are getting a little long in the tooth to finish. Twilight Princess I just wanted it to end when I got close to finishing it. It felt like the puzzles and traveling was there just to extend the game. Skyward Sword just seems to make you revisit dungeons (not in a good way-OoT played this out better) and go through that stupid spirit world to collect shinies, which was ripped right out of TP and was the least thing I liked.

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    Technically yes but kind of a gray area. If you recall when it came out it came with a mini guide that really took the mystery out of where to go to a point in that little fold out. Furthermore many had access to NP magazine and they ran a full map poster and in some later issues just a 2 page spread which laid out every square of the map and every item, hidden item, and dungeon. It really ended up being more of a non-open world map/guide driven game. Unless you were exceptionally good, you still had to find a few dungeons to walk into a good part of the map because you'd need the ladder and I think the raft as well. Also due to the age of the game and size limits of the ROM itself there really wasn't that big of a map to feel all that daunting to get lost upon even with that fake flickering light of a map box in the top so you could always get a vague idea where you were.

    They even sold for a few dollars along side the thing that Zelda Tips and Tricks book at retail all over the place even at kids Scholastic Book Fairs. Then with Zelda 2 you really were guided even if somewhat invisibly by the hand of design and script on where to go next every time and more or less what to do outside of the dungeons (those you had to discover.) Zelda 3 did the same thing on SNES, fake open world design that really gimped again where you could and couldn't go without being a certain level or having certain items.

    Zelda never has been honestly even remotely an open world title until they did that 3DS zelda 3 sequel throwback of sorts and now definitely finally with the whole WiiU title so it is really breaking new ground dropping the old style.


    All that thought I think you hit it -- long in the tooth, and they keep getting longer to where it's a chore and a task to want to finish it. Too much re-run mechanics and territory with not much invested in wanting to keep tolerating it as the scenery doesn't much change. Twilight really was the tipping point of where bloat took over from good design that motivated continuing digging into the game. I really do think Midna was fantastic and the wolf Link is neat as well, but that game was far too large and bloated, slow to navigate, lots of re-run areas, those fights for talents/tips got annoying as hell, and the save routine just infuriated me because it was like the same crap Zelda 3 did...you could hit save, but it only saves up to the last door(home, cave, hole in the ground) you pop through and the rest is gone so you could walk 20min and lose it all. I had that happen enough times around job/life I gave up on it and that game was still decent but I couldn't take it as it was too big for its own good. I still own it, doubt i'll ever finish it like I did Wind Waker which was notably shorter, more consistent, and fun to follow the story it had going for it as it kept evolving as you went along. That spirit world I hated most too both in TP and really pissed me off seeing it back in Skyward Sword as it was a real kick in the teeth unnecessary to extend the game. I miss when Zelda games were just shorter, more concise, better story that wasn't dragged out, not a bunch of shitty fluff thrown in to extend the hours of time put into it. Now they've totally gone there having the last one and next being all about the fluff of the open world which is a good reason, and the largest why I didn't keep the WiiU any longer than I did. Had Zelda U been made like Wind Waker being more linear (but not looking so) and shorter and more concise I'd still own the system, still get to play Starfox, and who knows what else. Given the horrible market collectors and frauds have caused along with NIntendo trying to shove their digital agenda I doubt I ever will have a WiiU again. The good stuff now costs as much if nore more than the original retail price which sucks for a current system as that's just new despicable territory.
    Last edited by Tanooki; 11-13-2015 at 01:49 PM.

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    TurboGrafx-16 games appear to be on the way, so the Wii U will soon be saved.

    http://esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis.asp...s%20Adventure/


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    As for the first Zelda: I didn't have access to the books until later. I played it at a buddy of mine's after school and he let me flounder for the first sword. I rented it off and on after I got my Nintendo and the manual didn't come with it. I learned some things from my friend (bombing walls) and figured out the tree burning myself. I think I spent a collective of a few hours burning trees and bombing. So to me the game was huge with lots to explore.

    I will admit I got the Zelda Tips and Tricks book with my Nintendo Power subscription. I only used it for things I couldn't find. I don't recall how much of the Second Quest info I read ahead on in NP magazine.

    Zelda 2 was a little more linear but even if you read up on things, you still needed some decent gaming skills to make it through. From Ocarina forward the games aren't hard per se- just time consuming. The only thing I found to be more of a pain was the spirit trials in Skyward Sword.

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    I'm not sure the Wii U can last another year. Already I hear developers waiting for the NX. Man is the NX going to be make or break for Nintendo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tupin View Post
    Man is the NX going to be make or break for Nintendo.
    If it fails they can always take my suggestion and just focus on their handheld games and systems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The 1 2 P View Post
    If it fails they can always take my suggestion and just focus on their handheld games and systems.
    Or focus on their baseball team. There's no place for another handheld, unless it's a phone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FieryReign View Post
    Or focus on their baseball team. There's no place for another handheld, unless it's a phone.


    Nintendo handhelds have been mine and my friends go to forever. If they make them, we will buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The 1 2 P View Post
    If it fails they can always take my suggestion and just focus on their handheld games and systems.
    Why? It's not far away from being just as troubled thanks to the rise of the smartphone. It's about where the GameCube was for them in the console world a decade ago.

    Short of long-term change that drastically shifts things up like developing software that runs on a common set of hardware for both traditional markets, it's only a matter of time until they turn 3rd party developer. They can't continue on this downward trajectory for much longer.

    Both are troubled business areas for Nintendo which is why so many are focused on a potential blending of the two. That way Nintendo can develop software for their entire marketplace instead of a portion of it, enjoy greater economies of scale, be more attractive to publishers that may support the NX but not a standalone 3DS or Wii U successor, etc. Cutting one or the other isn't going to do anything positive for them I feel except diminish the size of their market and lower their revenue for a fairly minimum savings.

    And if Nintendo insists on continuing a two front war, they're as doomed as Hitler was when he invaded the Soviet Union on the 22nd of June, 1941. They clearly don't have the resources to wage such a campaign as best evidenced by the long droughts between quality releases this generation for both their platforms that are so highly dependent on 1st party releases in order to provide quality software for their customers.

    They either consolidate their position in some manner like that often speculated about hardware merger and hope that's the solution to allow them to once again grow and attack Sony and Microsoft while allowing them to maintain their stance in the handheld business, or they're going to have to be completely reinvented such as focusing on this health initiative and the mobile sphere at the cost of their focus on videogaming, become a mere 3rd party developer/publisher for PC/MS/Sony, etc.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 11-30-2015 at 08:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xfrumx View Post
    Nintendo handhelds have been mine and my friends go to forever. If they make them, we will buy it.
    Millions won't. They'll be busy with their smartphones and tablets.

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    I think you're being a drama queen with that. Yes the 3DS hasn't outsold the DS but the numbers aren't something to laugh at. It shows there's a demand there for dedicated devices since touch panels just don't cut it, especially teeny phone ones. Game developers like having a static platform and being able to charge notably more than a freemium or couple dollar title they'll have to do rolling sales on.

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    Bluetooth controllers. Nintendo is already doing freemium. Game companies are focusing on mobile. Another handheld ain't happenin or just won't fly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FieryReign View Post
    Or focus on their baseball team. There's no place for another handheld, unless it's a phone.
    Nintendo isn't going to let the 3DS/2DS/New 3DS be their last handhelds. It's inevitable there will be a successor. It may not sell as well as previous Nintendo handhelds but it might not have to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_A View Post
    Why? It's not far away from being just as troubled thanks to the rise of the smartphone. It's about where the GameCube was for them in the console world a decade ago.
    I don't know if I'd call the 3DS's numbers that troubling. They certainly aren't losing money on it in the way they are with the Wii U. The system still sells well and the handheld games(the first party one's anyway) consistently move millions of copies.

    Short of long-term change that drastically shifts things up like developing software that runs on a common set of hardware for both traditional markets, it's only a matter of time until they turn 3rd party developer.
    To be honest with you I wouldn't mind Nintendo being a 3rd party developer. Then I could buy all my games for one system. But I don't think we're even close to that scenario yet.

    Cutting one or the other isn't going to do anything positive for them I feel except diminish the size of their market and lower their revenue for a fairly minimum savings.
    I disagree with you there. I think cutting loose their console ties would severely lessen their financial loses. Plus, they can still make additional revenue from their amiibo's, the upcoming mobile games and leveraging their ip through various other licensed ventures. It's not like they have to make all their money through their handheld division although it would still be their main source of income for the short term future.

    They either consolidate their position in some manner like that often speculated about hardware merger and hope that's the solution to allow them to once again grow and attack Sony and Microsoft while allowing them to maintain their stance in the handheld business, or they're going to have to be completely reinvented such as focusing on this health initiative and the mobile sphere at the cost of their focus on videogaming, become a mere 3rd party developer/publisher for PC/MS/Sony, etc.
    You're forgetting a third potential option--they sell the company. I know that doesn't seem likely but if the NX fails miserably then there's no longer a Mr. Iwata refusing to sell to another company. Apple, Google, even Microsoft might be willing to own Nintendo whole. Stranger things have happened.
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    The NX is supposed to be handheld if the stories we see are true, but also a console too, you get choice of what to use and use the same game on both.

    Just because Nintendo has a contract with DENA that in part is making freemium games doesn't mean they see no reason to make real games still and they've made that clear. I have a portable bluetooth controller, I don't carry it anywhere as it's a pain in the ass having 2 things to lug around versus just having something folded over in my pocket that's smaller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FieryReign View Post
    Bluetooth controllers. Nintendo is already doing freemium. Game companies are focusing on mobile. Another handheld ain't happenin or just won't fly.
    Because people nowdays tend to play mobile games while they're not in their home. So many game companies focusing to make a good mobile games

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    Quote Originally Posted by The 1 2 P View Post
    I don't know if I'd call the 3DS's numbers that troubling. They certainly aren't losing money on it in the way they are with the Wii U. The system still sells well and the handheld games(the first party one's anyway) consistently move millions of copies.
    Yes, but it certainly hasn't performed as well as its pedigree suggests it should've...

    -It's very far off the DS mark at the same point in its lifespan.

    -Isn't even going up against a viable dedicated gaming handheld like the DS did with the PSP's 80 million units sold.

    -3rd party development/publishing is drastically down, including the virtual disappearance of casual offerings.

    -Opening months were a struggle, necessitating a price cut of nearly 1/3 of its original MSRP just 4 months into its life in an emergency measure to effect a turnaround, which happily worked but which amply demonstrates the struggle they're facing.

    -The handheld line isn't bolstering Nintendo's financials and compensating for weakness in the console marketplace like often used to happen after the SuperNes years. While they've never been this weak in the console side before, it's indicative as well of the struggles over on the handheld half where its success has been much too little to pull Nintendo's balance sheet well into the black.

    -Consistently fails to meet sales projections in recent years.

    -Sales have been on a downturn for a couple of years now, despite not even being 5 years old yet. It recently even sold significantly less software than the same point a year prior for an example, despite the New 3DS enthusiasm and a consistently growing install base.

    It really feels like the N64/GCN years to me, except this time it's the handheld business and the threat that is troubling Nintendo's once secure position is the multipurpose smartphone. They're still succeeding and still making money and the 3DS is anything but a failure, but the downward trend this generation that has made the 3DS market seem on the soft side and the rise of the smartphone casts a troubling future over this once cash cow for Nintendo.

    They're going to have to work much harder here than they've perhaps ever had to if they want to not only maintain their presence, but regain lost ground. It's only going to get harder since people aren't abandoning their phones, they're only getting more attached to them. If they're not careful, they're going to be in the same position there as they've faced with the Wii U in the console marketplace.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 12-01-2015 at 03:44 PM.

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    I don't worry about it.
    Now if amiibo sales are slowing down then Nintendo would have to worry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_A View Post
    It really feels like the N64/GCN years to me, except this time it's the handheld business and the threat that is troubling Nintendo's once secure position is the multipurpose smartphone. They're still succeeding and still making money and the 3DS is anything but a failure, but the downward trend this generation that has made the 3DS market seem on the soft side and the rise of the smartphone casts a troubling future over this once cash cow for Nintendo.

    They're going to have to work much harder here than they've perhaps ever had to if they want to not only maintain their presence, but regain lost ground. It's only going to get harder since people aren't abandoning their phones, they're only getting more attached to them. If they're not careful, they're going to be in the same position there as they've faced with the Wii U in the console marketplace.
    For the most part I agree with you but I don't think that the 3DS is in a position where they would consider giving up handheld gaming all together. Compare that to Sony with the Vita. The only place that sells well is in it's homeland of Japan. Sony would have to be either really crazy or really stupid to launch another handheld system to a worldwide market. Nintendo isn't at that point yet.

    But yes they will have to work extremely hard on the NX. They are first going to have to do away with the useless gimmicks. Then they will have to do 1000% better in communicating why gamers should buy the system and why third party developers should develop for it. The price obviously needs to be affordable and they are are going to have to realize that people, in general, no longer buy consoles "just" to play games. I know the Wii U is capable of doing more than just gaming but they really need to take a cue from Microsoft with some of their media hub features. It's really weird that a console in 2015 can't play dvd's, let alone blurays.

    I always(and still do) felt that Nintendo going handheld only was a Plan B in case their console division completely dies. They still have other options(going third party, selling the company, etc) but at this point their future is pretty much riding on the success or failure of the NX.
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    Yeah I agree, I don't see Nintendo abandoning handheld gaming at all.

    It has to evolve significantly and I think the 3DS has demonstrated that well to them, but I'm certain that's effort that Nintendo thinks is fully justified given the huge amounts of money that this business has earned for them and the growth in mobile gaming.

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    I think that evolution ultimately may end up being almost a bloody mobile phone which has controls built into it in a far uglier and less obtrusively annoying way than the nokia ngage taco phone. Perhaps one step short, like how a tablet or an ipod Touch does it. Perhaps you'll see not with NX but their handheld after that one where you have a total device that is a swiss army knife of features driven by some form of a severely Nintendo-ized hacked up Android client which the tablet is on the thicker side and slides out the full controls like the PSP Go did or on the fringes of the device so it's bigger like a PS Vita is but with an Android/apple type finally updated touch interface. A device that has parental locks on it all short of games for the kiddos, but everyone else has a fully functional wannabe android tablet type gaming device. Perhaps the thickness and heft of the Android Shield Tablet I have but where the speakers are on the edge it's even longer and has dual sticks, d pad, 4 face buttons, and l/r up top (which can double for volume out of games) and start/select would be relegated to the panel. That would likely save their collective asses.

    I can't say I'd be a fan, but if it kept them going having a device that did it all, ran their full sized game cards, but also had the whole google play/nintendo network style store front with a crap ton of cheapily priced games and apps while keeping the actual device itself at a 3DS or less pricing level to not price themselves out of being attractive against a dedicated android tablet of comparable strength that could work.

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