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Thread: My xmas miracle came early, SMB2 mastery

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    Cool My xmas miracle came early, SMB2 mastery

    What a relief this is. It's just taken so damn long to actually do it. The fact it happened on xmas makes it that much more entertaining.

    I've owned SMB2 for FDS for about 2 years or so now, a bit more perhaps. After playing through the entire game 8 times to unlock the bonus worlds and beating those, I set out to clear the game perfectly. First I learned the shortest route with warps. It wasn't long until I beat it this way without dying. Then of course the skeptics weren't happy. I was omitting over half the game with warps. That's quite true. So it was time to learn it for real. No more warps. For good measure, I self-banned the use of mushrooms as well. Relying on mushrooms to deliberately take damage to skip something dangerous is pitiful so such tactics were not acceptable in my play. I do use 2 stars however. It just feels ok to me to use them. The game is hard enough as it is without mushrooms or mistakes!

    I think in 2011 I was able to clear the game without using a continue. In early 2012 I had a heartbreaking run where an extremely rare mistake occurred in 5-2 causing me to die only 1 time due to a goddamn pakkun flower. I've had taken breaks from this game for as long as 2 or 3 months straight without practice, sometimes feeling burned out, particularly disappointed with being as close as possible without actually reaching the ultimate goal. I estimate I've beaten SMB2 somewhere around 150 times now, almost every single run is without continue. I have more 1,2,3,4 death runs than I'd care to count.

    I played a bit late last night, and around 3:15am (already xmas) I touched the axe of 8-4 and finally, I got it. No deaths. I spent the whole game's FDS FM-synth enhanced ending cheering and doing stupid shit because this hell is over. It irritates me some bullshit went down in 6-3 causing me to take a mushroom against my will, so I quickly found the earliest place where I could get hit by an enemy to get rid of the powerup. I meant to touch the nokonoko walking on the bridge but a fish flew into me so that was fine. I clearly never took advantage of the powerup and discarded it ASAP, and I still never died; the mushroom ban is my own choice and has nothing to do with not dying so I guess it shouldn't bother me much? Had some really fucking scary moments. 7-2 I nearly got killed by that asshole jugemu. I think it was 7-4 where I got so close to Koopa he nearly took my head off. XD

    My computer is old and I can't afford to build a brand new one right now so my recording framerate sadly is not very high, but thankfully it's still understandable what's going on. Normally I would never advertise myself in such a way but SMB2 perfection is so fucking rare, hell I don't know if anybody has done it on tape before at all, so I figured this one is worth sharing. Sadly not only do I not know if anybody can beat this game perfectly, but I know nobody who even owns the game on FDS to begin with. I've seen Japanese players before but they're always on the SFC port and almost always emulating... and always absolutely terrible at the game. Once you know the levels the game is not really that hard to beat normally.

    My recording is on my Japanese broadcasting channel. Here's the link to the tape.

    Sure I got counterstop runs on Akumajou Densetsu and Contra which were grueling tasks too but SMB2 is definitely by far the toughest goddamn challenge I ever set out to do and cleared. (I doubt I'll forget Contra. 5am, Loop 9's final boss, no more 1UPs. I absolutely had to kill the boss to get the score to max out or I just wasted 4 hours in failure. But I did it. That was sick shit too. And I never ever want to do it again. XD)

    SMB2 is special in my eyes because of its history and it's exclusive to FDS. This is my personal payback to 80s Nintendo who thought non-Japanese people cannot play such a "hard" game. Fuck you, yes I can. And I did. I doubt even Miyamoto expected anybody would ever beat the game no-miss. ・ω・

    By the way my elevator glitch display in Fantasy World is a signature of mine. I always do that every single time I play 9-1. Once Fantasy World loops, well the only way to break the loop is to die so the suicide is absolutely intentional to force the game to end and display the game over screen. Finally after all these attempts I can accept the game's statement "You're a super player!" as truth. =)

    I haven't decided about Bonus Worlds. Don't even ask me...

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    I am in awe, good sir.



    Now you should take on Vs. Super Mario Bros....

    And if I may add, I don't think Nintendo passed on the Japanese SMB2 solely for the difficulty... by the time it would've come out here in the states, it would've been around 1988, and it would have looked dated as hell, especially when compared to the likes of Megaman 2 and Castlevania 2. The American SMB2 was much more attractive (even moreso than the original Doki Doki Panic) looking than the 1985 visuals of JPSMB2.
    Last edited by joshnickerson; 12-25-2012 at 10:55 PM.

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    Kick ass!! Congratulations to you, good sir! Merry Christmas indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshnickerson View Post
    Now you should take on Vs. Super Mario Bros....

    And if I may add, I don't think Nintendo passed on the Japanese SMB2 solely for the difficulty... by the time it would've come out here in the states, it would've been around 1988, and it would have looked dated as hell, especially when compared to the likes of Megaman 2 and Castlevania 2. The American SMB2 was much more attractive (even moreso than the original Doki Doki Panic) looking than the 1985 visuals of JPSMB2.
    What is Vs. anyway? Isn't that an arcade-only version or something? =\

    I can't say I know even 1 FC/FDS game that wouldn't be released overseas due to graphics. Zelda made it here in 87, one year after Japanese release, and that game required SOME translating to do. Mario 2 didn't (released in June 1986). All they had to do was dump its contents into an NES cart form and slap an English-only sticker on it. There's no reason they couldn't do this in 87, or even 86.

    I own the original Yume Koujou Doki Doki Panikku as well. I prefer it because you get the real story and not that two-bit hack. The four members are a family and everyone has to finish their side of it to get the real ending which isn't amazing but still kinda nice. Sure SMB USA gave some graphical revisions but.. I don't care, it's not worth losing the original story and hell even the save feature is nice. (Stage Select!)

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    Vs. Super Mario Bros. is a special version of Super Mario Bros. released in arcades. It featured redesigned level layouts, and some levels were replaced with altered versions of Super Mario Bros. 2 levels. The later levels are so radically different you might consider completely new levels. The difficulty is somewhere between the first and second SMB games, starting out easy, but rapidly progressing in difficulty around world 6. I always set the timer speed to fast, starting lives to 2, and the 1up's at 200 coins for a good challenge. Most of the 1ups available in the game have been removed.

    The thing that really makes Vs. Super Mario Bros. is the joystick. It uses the squishy "nintendo joystick" found on games like Donkey Kong. This method of input is far less precise, as are the leaf-switch buttons found on most Vs. cabinets. This makes the game much, much more tense and difficult. I've tried playing at home via emulation with standard controller, and it's just not even close to the same thing.

    The cabinets themselves, especially the red sit-down ones, are a pure joy to play on, with a perfect playing height, screen size, angle, etc.


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    Thanks for the overview. There's no Japanese home release and I don't buy PCBs/cabs so I won't be playing this game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxNtd View Post
    Thanks for the overview. There's no Japanese home release and I don't buy PCBs/cabs so I won't be playing this game.
    RetroUSB has it in reproduction form:

    http://www.retrousb.com/product_info...products_id=94

    A prime candidate for a virtual console release, I think.
    Last edited by Jack_Burton_BYOAC; 12-26-2012 at 02:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Burton_BYOAC View Post
    RetroUSB has it in reproduction form:

    http://www.retrousb.com/product_info...products_id=94

    A prime candidate for a virtual console release, I think.
    This is the version that came on the PC10 systems, right? I would love to play this again.

    Do you (or anyone else) know if there are Powerpak-compatible ROMs for this, NWC, or SMB2j? Of course I'm not asking for links, but was under the impression that these might not be playable on a Powerpak due to limitations, and I've never had any luck emulating them on the PC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jperryss View Post
    This is the version that came on the PC10 systems, right? I would love to play this again.

    Do you (or anyone else) know if there are Powerpak-compatible ROMs for this, NWC, or SMB2j? Of course I'm not asking for links, but was under the impression that these might not be playable on a Powerpak due to limitations, and I've never had any luck emulating them on the PC.
    Super Mario Bros. 2 (and all others like it) is playable in its native form as a FDS title on the powerpak. As far as I know only the ending takes advantage of the added audio capabilities of the disk, and the NES is fully capable of utilizing those after a very simple mod.

    The NWC rom is out there, and easily found. Of course, you won't be able to change any of the DIP switches. Patching it to the settings you like may be possible.

    There are Vs. SMB roms out there too, but you may need to mess about with a game genie to start with credits. The colors might be inverted on NES hardware. It's something I need to investigate for myself.

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    Wow man! Congrats! I wish I had the devotion to accomplish something like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Burton_BYOAC View Post
    As far as I know only the ending takes advantage of the added audio capabilities
    This is true. Only the ending BGM uses the FDS synth. It produces very vibrant audio, I love this sound chip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Burton_BYOAC View Post
    the NES is fully capable of utilizing those after a very simple mod.
    But this is false. Or maybe it isn't, it depends what mod you're talking about. I'm only aware of the mod that connects the missing audio channels, which would allow games with sound chips to be audible on the NES. However the FDS' FM synth is not present in an NES system. So either you're wrong or there is now a mod I don't yet know about that allows you to solder a compatible synthesizer sound chip into the NES. (Similarly I know there's a mod to solder a Yamaha FM synth chip into the US SMS but the system was supposed to have support for it to begin with. The NES was not. I'll let you tell me what is the case for NES and FM synth.)

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggyx View Post
    Wow man! Congrats! I wish I had the devotion to accomplish something like this.
    Thanks. It's not so much about skill though. It's not that hard to learn the stages and have the skill to navigate traps. The challenge was getting the entire run perfectly. As I hinted I have so many low-death runs it's not even funny. In Japanese we'd say 運ゲー which literally means Luck Game. There are a few elements across the game which I literally depend on luck to accomplish. The last hammer brother in 8-1 comes to mind. The two underwater stages and two stages with flying fish both require just being sharp and smart about where you're going. Hell, this run was nearly ruined but I got a little lucky, right around that spot where I accidentally ate that mushroom. (Grr.)

    7-4 is by far the most difficult Koopa to beat. It's insanely dangerous the way it's set up. In my run I cut it so closely he could've taken Mario's hat off. XD
    Last edited by FoxNtd; 12-26-2012 at 05:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxNtd View Post
    This is true. Only the ending BGM uses the FDS synth. It produces very vibrant audio, I love this sound chip.

    But this is false. Or maybe it isn't, it depends what mod you're talking about. I'm only aware of the mod that connects the missing audio channels, which would allow games with sound chips to be audible on the NES. However the FDS' FM synth is not present in an NES system. So either you're wrong or there is now a mod I don't yet know about that allows you to solder a compatible synthesizer sound chip into the NES. (Similarly I know there's a mod to solder a Yamaha FM synth chip into the US SMS but the system was supposed to have support for it to begin with. The NES was not. I'll let you tell me what is the case for NES and FM synth.)
    It appears we're both misinformed. The FDS does not use a FM synth chip. It uses 64x64 wave table. However, I do not know what that is

    What I have found is that most of the information relating to the resistor mod implies it allows all the missing audio from the FDS to be heard when using the powerpak, including the "fm synth" audio. Perhaps the powerpak includes the missing hardware, or provides a software solution.
    Last edited by Jack_Burton_BYOAC; 12-26-2012 at 06:22 PM.

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    I consider just beating SMB2j on the GBC Mario Deluxe to be one of my finest gaming accomplishments. To beat the game with no deaths is an amazing feat. My hat's off to you sir.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Burton_BYOAC View Post
    It appears we're both misinformed. The FDS does not use a FM synth chip. It uses 64x64 wave table. However, I do not know what that is

    What I have found is that most of the information relating to the resistor mod implies it allows all the missing audio from the FDS to be heard when using the powerpak, including the "fm synth" audio. Perhaps the powerpak includes the missing hardware, or provides a software solution.
    The FDS has a physical chip. English Wiki fucking sucks and doesn't explain this to you. Japanese Wiki however goes into detail and even has a picture of the damn thing too. I could translate the relevant paragraph from there if you really need to know.

    There is absolutely no way you're getting those sounds from an NES without figuring out how to connect a compatible sound chip to it. It doesn't matter what software instructions you feed, a machine can't do what it's not equipped to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Burton_BYOAC View Post
    The NWC rom is out there, and easily found. Of course, you won't be able to change any of the DIP switches. Patching it to the settings you like may be possible.
    Unless the PowerPak can change the emulated timer, then no.
    The timer on the actual cart is a circuit that causes a hardware interrupt.

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    I meant to ask this earlier, but how difficult do you think a no-miss run with Luigi would be? Does it make a big difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Burton_BYOAC View Post
    I meant to ask this earlier, but how difficult do you think a no-miss run with Luigi would be? Does it make a big difference?
    Ugh... I totally forgot about him because I hate using him. His greater jump ability is worthless to me and his terrible braking is literally a killer. It's probably more frustrating to do a Luigi game. I don't have an interest in it because his shitty brakes are mostly intolerable. XD

    I haven't even tried playing with Luigi for a long time. Given my SMB2 skill level now... I would have to try it out. =S

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    On the note of patches for Vs. Super Mario Bros., recently a hack was made by someone called "Vs. Super Mario Bros. Home Edition".

    http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1014/

    It's a bit more elaborate than a simple insert coin + pallette hack, as it allows you to tinker with dip switch options in a software setting.

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    What impresses me the most is not using shrooms. Kudos indeed sir!
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk... Have at you!"

    My feedback thread: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93213

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8-bitNesMan View Post
    What impresses me the most is not using shrooms. Kudos indeed sir!
    Especially the poison ones.

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