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Thread: LCD TV recommendation (2013)

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    Default LCD TV recommendation (2013)

    i'm sure this has been asked but i am going to ask again because tv models change several times a year now and it changes up so much.
    i'm going to probably get a replacment tv since mine is acting strangly. Random resets and lately it cant sync with the audio from my PS3 it just gives strange static sounds.

    I was wondering what would be good for an LCD, dont care what kind of features probably in the 47"+ range.

    i just notice a delay from the audio and the video when playing SNES on it lately...its pretty bad.

    my old 32" vizio didnt have that problem and its 7 years old. needs a new PSU and it'll be back and running.
    maybe this newer 47" has a delay because its "smart" and its trying to do something to the video? either way i have all the fancy shut off

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    I'm not sure how much this will help, but that said follow me with this.

    I have a Panasonic Viera LCD I got around 1-2years before Circuit City went out of business, it runs 720p(though I've seen stuff report back 1080p) and at 60hz. It doesn't have a game mode or any other bullshit, it just gets the job done. Around a year ago or so I got a 46" Samsung LED tv, this one is 1080p and 120hz, it does have ways to enable or disable certain junk that corrects or adjusts and you can activate a game mode under certain conditions.

    Clarity:
    The Panasonic LCD will run my NES, SNES, and other pre-Gamecube era stuff with an almost emulator on a PC type sharpness. Colors are good, no soft edges, no bleed, nothing, just clean on good old RCA cables. Now the Samsung is the opposite of this as the imagery is like if someone had an old late 80s color TV and someone was daisy chaining like 3-4 RF cables back to back. There's blur to all of it, really soft rounded off edges, no real color bleed, it's just 'muddy' as people like to prank on N64 for over it's AA features when used badly.

    Speed:
    Panasonic wins here too and oddly enough a really good test for this outside of old systems which is really screwy would be Super Mario Allstars 25th Anniv package for the Wii. The game on there runs 1:1 speed, there's no input lag, no weirdness, everything dials in and does as you want as you do it. The Samsung though wow, not a chance, which is odd as other stuff like even New SMB Wii run fine, but the old emulator SMAS runs with significant input lag to where it's almost like a 1/4 second delay or damn near something like that as I just end up dead on it time and again.

    I didn't even realize it at first when I bought the game when it was released, got pissed at it for being lazy shitty Nintendo corner cutting. I only realized it was the stupid TV when I got one again super cheap a few months ago or so but only got to it in early November, and wow, again like my SNES cart, it ran at 1:1 speed on the Panasonic which I never even thought to try it on.


    Now through all that rambling of evidence, keep this in mind and hell I may be wrong but it fits. Once I found that Wii emulated SNES game running right it blew me away so I did some research. I found out that supposedly 60hz tv's are the best to be using for in particular classic pre-3D or 1st gen(N64 era) titles because they run at the right response time and look crisper(mind you the crispness probably varies by tv model.) My readings said that 120 or even 240hz tvs basically resample the video it is fed so for a 120hz it's got double lag having to run the image twice and 4x over on 240 which is why they have these lame bandaid 'game mode' fixes and other on/off switches for junk in the settings.

    I'd suggest finding something that runs at 60hz from a local shop that has returns, take it home, pop your NES, SNES, etc into it and see how it rolls. If I'm and the other stuff I read up is right you'll be happy.

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    I have a Sony Bravia 32. It looks perfect, but the sound is crap via HDMI from my FIOS STB, yet I blame it on FIOS's old equipment. I would try to get one with as many Component ports as possible! And VGA port.
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    I have 2 Samsung LCDs and both HATE my SNES. I've heard other Samsung owners with issues with the SNES as well. I'd recommend against a Samsung if that's what you're interested in using the TV for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    I'm not sure how much this will help, but that said follow me with this.

    I have a Panasonic Viera LCD I got around 1-2years before Circuit City went out of business, it runs 720p(though I've seen stuff report back 1080p) and at 60hz. It doesn't have a game mode or any other bullshit, it just gets the job done. Around a year ago or so I got a 46" Samsung LED tv, this one is 1080p and 120hz, it does have ways to enable or disable certain junk that corrects or adjusts and you can activate a game mode under certain conditions.

    Clarity:
    The Panasonic LCD will run my NES, SNES, and other pre-Gamecube era stuff with an almost emulator on a PC type sharpness. Colors are good, no soft edges, no bleed, nothing, just clean on good old RCA cables. Now the Samsung is the opposite of this as the imagery is like if someone had an old late 80s color TV and someone was daisy chaining like 3-4 RF cables back to back. There's blur to all of it, really soft rounded off edges, no real color bleed, it's just 'muddy' as people like to prank on N64 for over it's AA features when used badly.

    Speed:
    Panasonic wins here too and oddly enough a really good test for this outside of old systems which is really screwy would be Super Mario Allstars 25th Anniv package for the Wii. The game on there runs 1:1 speed, there's no input lag, no weirdness, everything dials in and does as you want as you do it. The Samsung though wow, not a chance, which is odd as other stuff like even New SMB Wii run fine, but the old emulator SMAS runs with significant input lag to where it's almost like a 1/4 second delay or damn near something like that as I just end up dead on it time and again.

    I didn't even realize it at first when I bought the game when it was released, got pissed at it for being lazy shitty Nintendo corner cutting. I only realized it was the stupid TV when I got one again super cheap a few months ago or so but only got to it in early November, and wow, again like my SNES cart, it ran at 1:1 speed on the Panasonic which I never even thought to try it on.


    Now through all that rambling of evidence, keep this in mind and hell I may be wrong but it fits. Once I found that Wii emulated SNES game running right it blew me away so I did some research. I found out that supposedly 60hz tv's are the best to be using for in particular classic pre-3D or 1st gen(N64 era) titles because they run at the right response time and look crisper(mind you the crispness probably varies by tv model.) My readings said that 120 or even 240hz tvs basically resample the video it is fed so for a 120hz it's got double lag having to run the image twice and 4x over on 240 which is why they have these lame bandaid 'game mode' fixes and other on/off switches for junk in the settings.

    I'd suggest finding something that runs at 60hz from a local shop that has returns, take it home, pop your NES, SNES, etc into it and see how it rolls. If I'm and the other stuff I read up is right you'll be happy.
    thats interesting to know, Super mario world has the least delay on the snes, All Stars on snes has the medium delay but all stars on the wii has the worst delay! the tv is a 120 hz tv and i did notice turning off frame smoothing and film mode and all those other "enhancments" helped but its still bad. I do remember all stars on snes having a delay all the time but it was workable on a tube tv, any thing added ontop of it make it damn near impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg2600 View Post
    I have a Sony Bravia 32. It looks perfect, but the sound is crap via HDMI from my FIOS STB, yet I blame it on FIOS's old equipment. I would try to get one with as many Component ports as possible! And VGA port.
    The hook ups have been a major problem lately i have noticed. I have even run into that problem with the recivers i have been buying. both tvs and recivers have little to no analog inputs for stereo sound and lave little to no composite or component inputs. of if they do they dont have the features i want. I wanted a reciver that would pass though component or composite over HDMI to the tv for the video feed so i only have one cable going to and from the tv to the reciver but the ones that do that have shit for inputs.

    tv's are worse, i work at wally world in the electronics and its been down to crap for inputs. most tvs have NO component, 1 composite and a bajillion HDMI, HDMI is great and all but what about people with older things? i know some one will say thats because its the way things are going and all you need to do is change your equipment but when i get that at work i tell people when they untill making NES systems with an HDMI output they need to have more than what they have been coming with lately. Alot of items arent being made any more so how are you going to upgrade them to take advantage of new connectivity technology.....could go on and on about this, you get the gist

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggyx View Post
    I have 2 Samsung LCDs and both HATE my SNES. I've heard other Samsung owners with issues with the SNES as well. I'd recommend against a Samsung if that's what you're interested in using the TV for.
    thats ok i am not a huge samsung fan. they have been riding the "best rated tv ever" train for way too long and their quality has definitly gotten really bad or every one else is catching up or passed them in quality because lately it isnt the samsung that stands out its the Vizio or LG or Hisense that kicks the samsung ass.


    Yes i said Hisense, its a brand that some walmarts carry. Basicly a TV from the chinese goverment but the picture is good and they rarely have any problems and the price.....You thought vizio was kicking butt with prices when they first came out these guys at hisense are doing the same thing but 3 times more cost to quality than vizio did. Hisense is a major part of the reason tv prices have plummeted in the past year

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    http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42092

    LCD is NOT the right choice for SNES and old consoles, too many issues you're likely to run into visually (no scanlines, wrong aspect ratio) - and a "good" gaming TV is going to have up to 2 frames of lag!

    Instead I would take a look around for a small-ish CRT television (or even a pro Trinitron monitor if you have the money) and get an LCD screen for your "daily" viewing and HD consoles.

    Interestingly I have read that there may be some further lag issues with many PS3 games and non-720p televisions, as the TV will have to upscale from 720p and this is a well-known source of lag.

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    Ed that's exactly what I was talking about in my big ass post there. Those 120hz sets have twice the frames of lag over the 60hz model, and when you don't put on game mode or turn off every instance of 'enhancement' fluff that processes the image somehow it gets uglier.

    I do have a CRT I use, but just for the nes (built in), n64 (since 1st gen 3D hates LCD tvs), and a master system I have. It just runs and feels right there, but the LCD I have does it just as nicely too since I have it set to zero enhancements fortunately.

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    Being that I'm most likely going to be buying an LED LCD TV in 2013, thought I ask, what about Plasma? I've heard some but not many Plasmas do accept the old 240p low resolution signals old consoles produce you just have to watch out for burn in and they are still expensive than LCDs. Do hey have any lag time? Either way I'm still keeping a CRT.
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    the reason i am asking is because this is for the main room and some times its better with people over to have the older systems out there. for something with a tube i have 27" and 19" Sony Trinitrons.
    but yea for the main room something that would be good for old as well as new is what i am looking for

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    Quote Originally Posted by alec006 View Post
    Being that I'm most likely going to be buying an LED LCD TV in 2013, thought I ask, what about Plasma? I've heard some but not many Plasmas do accept the old 240p low resolution signals old consoles produce you just have to watch out for burn in and they are still expensive than LCDs. Do hey have any lag time? Either way I'm still keeping a CRT.
    Most any HDTV will accept a 240p signal (Although many will hardly do a decent job of displaying it). Plasmas aren't unique in that regard and still have a fixed resolution just like a LCD has with all content not matching that having to be scaled by a scaling chip (Which doesn't care in the slightest what the screen technology is). So there's absolutely no advantage over LCD technology there.

    They're generally a bit better with colors (Particularly deep blacks) and motion blur but LCD technology has also advanced greatly so those advantages aren't what they once were. And if you want to play classic games on a plasma while pillarboxed for any length of time, you will suffer from temporary image retention that sometimes can require several hours of widescreen programming to erase the ghosts. There's no way around it unless you just play for a few minutes at a time and then move on to something that's 16:9.

    And despite great strides, permanent screen burn-in can still happen on a plasma. Particularly during the first 1,000 hours or so of use and if you're not following the instructions on breaking in your set.

    So if you want to play classic games at their OAR on one, I'd give it careful consideration. I watch many 4:3 television shows and Academy ratio movies (The standard before widescreen processes took over in the early 1950's so I've stayed away from plasmas. Not only would I regularly be suffering from IR, I imagine that pillarboxing would've became permanent fixtures by now since I watch relatively little full screen 16:9 programming (Particularly during the winter months when motorsports takes a hiatus around the world).
    Last edited by Leo_A; 10-02-2013 at 10:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_A View Post
    Most any HDTV will accept a 240p signal (Although many will hardly do a decent job of displaying it). Plasmas aren't unique in that regard and still have a fixed resolution just like a LCD has with all content not matching that having to be scaled by a scaling chip (Which doesn't care in the slightest what the screen technology is). So there's absolutely no advantage over LCD technology there.

    They're generally a bit better with colors (Particularly deep blacks) and motion blur but LCD technology has also advanced greatly so those advantages aren't what they once were. And if you want to play classic games on a plasma while pillarboxed for any length of time, you will suffer from temporary image retention that sometimes can require several hours of widescreen programming to erase the ghosts. There's no way around it unless you just play for a few minutes at a time and then move on to something that's 16:9.

    And despite great strides, permanent screen burn-in can still happen on a plasma. Particularly during the first 1,000 hours or so of use and if you're not following the instructions on breaking in your set.

    So if you want to play classic games at their OAR on one, I'd give it careful consideration. I watch many 4:3 television shows and Academy ratio movies (The standard before widescreen processes took over in the early 1940's) so I've stayed away from plasmas. Not only would I regularly be suffering from IR, I imagine that pillarboxing would've became permanent fixtures by now since I watch relatively little full screen 16:9 programming (Particularly during the winter months when motorsports takes a hiatus around the world).
    That made up my mind, I myself do watch some old academy aspect ratio movies too, along with childhood cartoons, anime and sitcoms that are all in 4:3. Not to mention all my home movies are mostly in 4:3 as well. An LCD would be a better value it looks like, not to mention easier on the wallet, and I do plan on getting a XRGB Framemeister since most of my consoles have RGB cables already and that will help the TV so it doesn't have to use it's own scaler. Thanks so much Leo!
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    Some people might think I'm crazy, but if you're going to play on a modern TV, a proper video scaler is a must. And in my mind, there's really only one scaler worth buying, the xRGB mini. It's not cheap though (~$450), and you'll have to import it from Japan.

    Now, you may be thinking, why the hell do I need a 500 dollar box from japan to play my old consoles? Well, there's a couple of reasons.

    1. It'll standardize and convert all your inputs (rgb/scart, component, composite, svideo) into HDMI. Let's face it, HDMI isn't going anywhere soon, and analog connections on new TVs are starting to fade away. Sure, most TVs still include composite connections, but SVideo on TVs are getting harder and harder to find.

    2. It'll reduce your input lag a little, especially if your TV is a horrendous internal scaler. Now, it won't do nothing to fix the inherent display lag that's evident in lcds themselves (depending on the panel technology, some lcds have much lower lag/refresh rate than others). Chances are, your TV has a poor scaler and will introduce extra frames of lag. Ever play something like super mario world, and something feels off? Like you press the jump button and the action is delayed ever so slightly? Chances are, it's the internal scaler.

    3. It'll just make the picture look better. A lot of TVs introduce extra artifacts into the videos. It's just a product of...again... a bad scaler. If you have Final Fantasy 3/6, look at the opening scene in the game where you're walking around the town. There's grates on the floor. When you move vertically, everything looks fine. Move in a horizontal motion, and the grates blur. This shouldn't happen. I've seen it happen on every LCD I've ever plugged my SNES into, but it shouldn't be there. However, with my SNES plugged into the xrgb mini, this artifacting and blurring does not occur any more.


    In my mind, there's three choiced: save up and buy an external scaler (there's others, but the mini just happens to be the best), live with a terrible picture on an lcd/plasma, or find a corner to stash an old CRT into.

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    I've only owned a sony bravia from 07 which I sold last year nice set I'd consider one again. Samsung seems to be the best/most popular brand with vizio being close and best in price. If I were buying it would all depend on finances I'd go as big as I could which could lead to a vizio

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    Quote Originally Posted by plc268 View Post
    Some people might think I'm crazy, but if you're going to play on a modern TV, a proper video scaler is a must. And in my mind, there's really only one scaler worth buying, the xRGB mini.
    Of course it depends on what you use it for - if you have an old VGA monitor, then another scaler is a better choice (since the Mini doesn't have its own VGA output). Still, I forget that Fudoh gives it the top recommendation in his scaler ratings (from May 2012), especially for LCD sets.

    Its only real downside is 480p content, which is admittedly rarer to come by but can be a real concern

    Some sets do pretty well without scalers - Fudoh's plasma mention (Pioneer PDP-V402) handles 480p (i.e., GameCube) as well as 240p very well. This is a rare set though, and not really likely to fill the other uses of an LCD screen well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggyx View Post
    I have 2 Samsung LCDs and both HATE my SNES. I've heard other Samsung owners with issues with the SNES as well. I'd recommend against a Samsung if that's what you're interested in using the TV for.
    I would recommend against a Samsung as well, but not because of any issues with consoles (though nothing composite era looks very good on it IMO) but because they put faulty caps in their power supplies. There was a class action over it, and they're repairing TV's from 2008 or earlier with the bad caps, but apparently they didn't stop doing using bad caps because my Samsung just developed one of the same issues as they got class actioned over. Of course mine's too new to get in on the class action settlement, but also ~3 weeks out of warranty. Never buying Samsung again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Oscuro View Post
    http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42092

    LCD is NOT the right choice for SNES and old consoles, too many issues you're likely to run into visually (no scanlines, wrong aspect ratio) - and a "good" gaming TV is going to have up to 2 frames of lag!

    Instead I would take a look around for a small-ish CRT television (or even a pro Trinitron monitor if you have the money) and get an LCD screen for your "daily" viewing and HD consoles.
    I personally recommend against recommending things for which the OP was NOT seeking recommendations :P

    Quote Originally Posted by BlastProcessing402 View Post
    I would recommend against a Samsung as well, but not because of any issues with consoles (though nothing composite era looks very good on it IMO) but because they put faulty caps in their power supplies. There was a class action over it, and they're repairing TV's from 2008 or earlier with the bad caps, but apparently they didn't stop doing using bad caps because my Samsung just developed one of the same issues as they got class actioned over. Of course mine's too new to get in on the class action settlement, but also ~3 weeks out of warranty. Never buying Samsung again.
    Wow, had no idea that there was actually a suit!

    I replaced the caps in my 46"er from 2007 a few years back. Pissed me off that I had to repair a 2 year old TV

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    yea i have several tv's for use in what will soon be the game room, 2 of them trinitrons one of them very old school knobs and UHF/VHF hookups (and a LUMISPONDER!)

    but this is for the main room because not every one is going to want to go in in groups of 5 or 6 to a smallish room to play a game on a tiny tv.

    interesting info i found though....

    Pioneer PDP-40/401
    Pioneer PDP-402

    was mensioned in a link, i think i may try to hunt one of these guys down. Odd specs though but it would be perfect for the show that i want to get going some time (think gamecenter but live streamed and with call ins for tips to the player)


    any way i still am hearing no samsung but not a whole lot of other things aside 120 and 240hz tvs cause lag over composite. theres got to be a tv that is able to run games without lag but is 120 and 240hz. a computer monitor can adjust its refreshrate why shouldnt a tv? a monitor and a tv are one in the same now with LCDs every where, some just have tuners and some dont.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggyx View Post
    I personally recommend against recommending things for which the OP was NOT seeking recommendations :P
    I recommend you stick to your own knitting.

    I should have said this though: The OP ought to have somebody pointing out that retro systems on LCD, while doable, is going to take either a very specific (and probably no longer produced) panel type to play 240p games well (ie the really ancient Panasonic PDP Fudoh mentioned in the link I gave), or will require a $300+ investment in a scaler (i.e. the Micomsoft XRGB mimi Framemeister). A scaler isn't such a bad way to go.

    That said, CRT is still the better way to go for SNES playing in 2013.
    Last edited by Ed Oscuro; 01-02-2013 at 04:08 AM.

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    speaking of knitting and sticking to it.

    have said a couple of times i have several CRTs for playing "in true form"
    i'm looking for something that does well for a larger 47" and up LCD

    if you could knit me a 47" LCD that would be acceptable aswell....

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    I gave you a recommendation in the post you have apparently perused: A good scaler will solve a lot of problems. If you buy one, you won't have to go hunting for that mythical set with perfectly fast 240p input scaling; just find a set with good input lag and you're good to go (assuming the scaler outputs the television's native resolution, as it should).
    Last edited by Ed Oscuro; 01-02-2013 at 04:37 AM.

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