RetroN 5 is officially a thing, apparently

[StoneAgeGamer]

Santoshi is completely right. The reason why you basically only see NES, Genesis, and SNES clones is because its really the only systems the market can bear. TG-16 clone would be terrible idea (business-wise). Its not a very popular system outside of the retro gaming community and many of the games are really expensive. Japan is not a very big market when it comes to clones. I think their main targets are U.S., Europe, and Brazil. The only way I could possibly see it if they made an adapter for the R5, but even the costs to produce the adapter may not be worth their time. They aren't going to do anything like this until they feel the R5 is a hit. Whether its a hit depends on if it delivers. I think Hyperkin has a lot riding on this system. They are not a big company and this is a pretty big project to undertake.

Also for those suggesting disc-based clones. I highly doubt it will ever happen. Just too many issues.

P.S. I am not being a hater. I would love to see good clones made of all sorts of systems, but from the business side I completely understand why they don't. Most likely anything outside of really popular systems would be a disaster financially. I think people totally under estimate how much something like that costs up front to produce.

[Leo_A]

I don't really disagree with either of you. Rather, I'm putting forth the most likely addition if they were to expand their platform coverage in a future revision. I'm not sure of its viability, just that it's likely more viable than any other console from the period that isn't already being emulated by this device.

Next to the Neo Geo which is is even more expensive and difficult to acquire cartridges for, I can't think of another cartridge based console, other than perhaps support for 32X carts, that would make any sense to include in a device aimed at fans of Nintendo & Sega console gaming from 1985-1995 other than the Turbo-Grafx-16. It was a direct albeit distant competitor overlapping both Sega & Nintendo generations, saw many games released for it, and has a lot of awareness among classic gamers today that love this era of gaming.

I don't think it's unfair to say that probably well over 75% of Retron 5 buyers will have an awareness of the TG16 with a healthy percentage of those having at least some TG16 games in their collection today or wanting to expand to include that platform where as the percentage back in 1990 in this country among Sega & Nintendo gamers was probably a mere fraction of that with most never having even heard of it.

The people building up collections for these consoles today tend to also at least have an interest in the TurboGrafx/PC Engine. If they were to expand their coverage areas, I think this for consoles and the Game Gear for handhelds are the two most logical additions. They're not going to be selling many Retron 5's to people that stumble across some old carts in their attic. At $100, it's a bit past something people would buy at the spur of the moment for some nostalgia.

Rather, people like ourselves are going to be the average Retron 5 customer.

[StoneAgeGamer]

And the most obvious way is to increase their system coverage. Among consoles they're not already emulating here, it's the best candidate with the most interest overlap. And in the handheld realm, I imagine most everyone would agree that Game Gear would top the list by a wide margin.

The Game Gear did well, but your everyday Joe has no idea what a Game Gear is. However everyone and their brother knows what a Game Boy is. Of course if the R5 does really well it might be worth them making an adapter, but I think it would have to do REALLY well.

I think people are under the idea that this system is for us. Its not. I know that's what Hyperkin is telling everyone and that's a common line companies take when marketing. By X for X. If Hyperkin only had us to rely on they wouldn't bother making such a system. People think the $99.99 price tag is out of the casual gamer's price range for such a device. I disagree, casual gamers are often less concerned with the price than hardcore gamers are. You know how many flash carts we sell to casual gamers? They are probably our biggest customer and as many people know flash carts are not cheap. We've had people who dropped $260 on a SD2SNES Deluxe and tell us they can't wait for their SNES to arrive to they can relive their childhood. These same people will be buying the R5. Yes of course if its good their will be many hardcore gamers buying it as well, but the money will be made from the casuals. Those casuals don't care about GG, TG-16, etc. They want the big boys NES/Famicom, Game Boy, Genesis, and SNES. Those are the games they have in their closet most likely.

[Leo_A]

If casuals end up representing much of their business, it certainly does change things up and much of what I said flies right out the window.

One possible solution to all of this would be rom loading. If they ever stop being scared of the boogeyman, they wouldn't even need to physically support niche platforms. Especially if they left open an avenue to install a custom emulator to the lineup, the community itself could expand it and tailor it to its own needs.

Whatever happens, if they do a reasonable job here right out of the gate, they're going to have to do something to get people to double dip in a couple of years just like how NES clones eventually branched out to include SNES & Genesis coverage to get people to bite and how people continually bought new clones in the hope of improved compatibility and accuracy.

They're going to need a new hook or they're going to have a tough time selling the Retron 6 and subsequent products if they hit a home run with the Retron 5.

[StoneAgeGamer]

I don't think it's unfair to say that probably well over 75% of Retron 5 buyers will have an awareness of the TG16 with a healthy percentage of those having at least some TG16 games in their collection today or wanting to expand to include that platform where as the percentage back in 1990 in this country among Sega & Nintendo gamers was probably a mere fraction of that with most never having even heard of it.

I doubt that even 25% would (see my previous post). I do agree with you that instead of adding more slots they should make adapters if its financially viable, but most people who buy an R5 will not know what a TG-16 is. They may have a fuzzy memory of it, but it won't be of any concern to them. I could go to any of my childhood friends and ask them if they remember Game Boy, NES, Genesis, or SNES and all of them will. If I ask them if they remember TG-16 I would surprised if any of them did. I think sometimes we get caught up in this bubble and we think things that seem common knowledge to us in this community is common knowledge to all gamers. Its just not the case.

[Leo_A]

Yes, but how many of them are aware of the Retron 5? How many of those would be aware of the Retron 5 if they didn't have a friendship with you?

I may be underestimating the casual demand here, but one thing that we haven't mentioned much is the wide price disparity between this and competing products. Why should the average Joe that dug some cartridges out of his attic pick the most expensive clone system to play them on even if a $100 price tag isn't necessarily a major deterrent to such customers?

I'd be foolish to disagree completely with you. Running a well liked online business that deals in this product, you're obviously in a better position to understand this market. But I'm still inclined to think that the casual business is going to be the minority for this new clone unless Hyperkin and retailers do a heck of a selling job to get potential customers to understand why an option twice as much as competing products (that on the surface seem much the same) is worth it in the end.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Isn't [the design of the NES dpad] just protected by patents? I wasn't aware that those could be renewed. And using Google just now, it seems like a lot of people are under the same impression I had. It was only protected by patents and said patents have now expired.

Yes, that specific patent has expired. However, it was renewed each and every time Nintendo brought out a new console with the same cross design for the dpad. That patent is now currently for the WiiU and 3DS which still use the same design. Hyperkin can't copy it without risking legal action.

Yes, but how many of them are aware of the Retron 5? How many of those would be aware of the Retron 5 if they didn't have a friendship with you?

I bet a large number of people who will eventually buy a Retorn5 will have never heard of it until they come across one in a store, just like the NeoGeoX Gold and Atari Flashbacks.

I may be underestimating the casual demand here, but one thing that we haven't mentioned much is the wide price disparity between this and competing products. Why should the average Joe that dug some cartridges out of his attic pick the most expensive clone system to play them on even if a $100 price tag isn't necessarily a major deterrent to such customers?

Convenience and space reduction. Those regions are BIG. Most people don't want five consoles with five connections and five power supplies. They want one console that does it all. The biggest analogy is the Ouya, which is a tiny little rubix cube sized thing that does a whole lot of things.

[Leo_A]

Yes, that specific patent has expired. However, it was renewed each and every time Nintendo brought out a new console with the same cross design for the dpad. That patent is now currently for the WiiU and 3DS which still use the same design. Hyperkin can't copy it without risking legal action.

I knew of maintenance fees for patents, but this is the first I've ever heard of being able to renew them like copyrights and trademarks. You can't patent the same thing twice. If they've had subsequent d-pad patents since then, something has to have been changed that they're patenting.

I bet a large number of people who will eventually buy a Retorn5 will have never heard of it until they come across one in a store, just like the NeoGeoX Gold and Atari Flashbacks.

I suspect few ever will have the opportunity. I think GameStop carried the Generation NEX, but these aren't things you will typically see at retail. The vast majority of their business will be via Amazon, eBay, and specialty online retailers like StoneAgeGamer. They will surely sell some through independent videogame retailers, but online is where I think it's safe to say the bulk of their business is at unlike something like the Atari Flashback or AtGames products at places like Walgreens, Wal-Mart, and Dollar General.

And there, it's going to be something you typically have to specifically be seeking out. It's more than possible to come across things online you weren't seeking out, but opportunities are much reduced compared to B&M.

Convenience and space reduction. Those regions are BIG. Most people don't want five consoles with five connections and five power supplies. They want one console that does it all. The biggest analogy is the Ouya, which is a tiny little rubix cube sized thing that does a whole lot of things.

First, I doubt many casuals are even interested in more than a platform or two among the 6 systems able to be directly played on this (7 if we include the SMS). So right there, space reduction advantages are reduced.

Secondly, all these clones offer up advantages in simplifying connections and saving space. So that alone isn't a reason to pay a premium over something like Hyperkin's own Retron 3. And even if the Retron 5 was a mere fraction in size of many of these (And it sure looks like it's actually going to be larger than typical judging by pictures), that isn't easily communicated online to a potential customer.

Price sure seems like a sticking point to the casual market to me. It very well might be able to bear the cost like StoneAgeGamer said but they're going to have to do a good selling job to entice people to pay that premium. Casuals aren't going to do much research and on the surface, one clone is much the same as the next.

We know the potential benefits being tossed around for this and that's why we're excited and optimistic for this and why this thread is as long as it is. But that's not the market we're talking about here. They're dealing with one that is largely going to consider two things; will it play my old cartridges and how much does it cost?

[Tanooki]

Loving this reality check discussion on the device. It really is what it is, but I do hope that hyperkin despite obviously saying one thing but catering to another will keep that promise of keeping things supposedly 100% compatible. A true casual will remember Mario or Mega Man or Vectorman, but they may have a less solid memory if every note or shade of green is proper because 100% could be 'it runs all carts, but not 100% right' kind of like that passable stuff atgames does with those hand held genesis systems which are solid but the emulator is a bit lacking(and nauseatingly won't even save games.)

There's nothing to be fooled about when you wonder if a casual will find this. They will. These things don't just show up at mom and pop shops, they also pop up in national chains at times too around holidays like Dollar General and so on, it just depends how well it's marketed and who will plop it on the shelf. And if you couple that shelf space with paid heirarchy in search engines to be that first item that pops up for 'retro console for (snes, etc)' and people see this Retron 5 thing that has bluetooth controllers, HDMI and plays 5 different classic gaming systems, they'll be all over it. Some may want to know more, they will, some will check ebay and see what each system alone costs, then they'll see $100 and be like THIS!

Sure we're interested, but we're the minority who play a little more than in passing or for like a dozen good memories of the 80s and 90s. It's like NES game collector trolls who love to ban, harassed, insult and fuck with those who like to make boxes, manuals, and other restoration junk for their battered old games. They're a minority, they'll be vocal, but in the end they're one against a hundred -- just as we are the one against a hundred other who would love to have this for memories, price, and convenience.

[JSoup]

I bet a large number of people who will eventually buy a Retorn5 will have never heard of it until they come across one in a store, just like the NeoGeoX Gold and Atari Flashbacks.

I'm betting just coming across it in a store won't mean anything. When the Retron3 was new, I saw it at the first Play-N-Trade in my city. They had stuck it with the other clone crap they were selling, like those plug and play Atari controllers. The owners didn't really seem to know anything about the Retron, just got set a stock of them by corporate and were assuming they were the same crap as the aforementioned plug and play controllers. Having read about the thing on these forums, I was able to correct them, but they still didn't sell any of them before that particular store closed down.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Well sure, that's one example. but even in my tiny town here, that wasn't the case for the RetroN5, Atari Flashbacks, or even the $200 NeoGeo X Gold.

[JSoup]

-but even in my tiny town here, that wasn't the case for the RetroN5, Atari Flashbacks, or even the $200 NeoGeo X Gold.

Well sure, that's one example.

[Leo_A]

There's nothing to be fooled about when you wonder if a casual will find this. They will. These things don't just show up at mom and pop shops, they also pop up in national chains at times too around holidays like Dollar General and so on, it just depends how well it's marketed and who will plop it on the shelf

I've never seen any NES clones and such at such places. Plug and plays with built in games from back in the day but not dedicated clones. The closest I've ever came to seeing something like this at retail is the AtGames Genesis console with onboard games and a cartridge slot. Nothing else I've ever seen accepted original media at a mainstream retailer.

I haven't been told anything that would suggest I'm wrong about the market composition for this. The only reason I'm even having any sort of doubt on my viewpoint is because of StoneAgeGamer and his experience so if he says that casuals will buy this, that carries a lot of weight and is reason enough to try to keep an open mind. But beyond that, it sure still seems to me that the only way the Retron 5 stands a chance with the average uninformed casual customer would be if things like the Retron 3 are widely unavailable for half the price.

Provide an option for half the price that plays NES/SNES/Genesis games and that's what most of that segment will go for beyond the minority that do their research and discover that the Retron 5 offers advantages that are hopefully worth the premium. And all that brings us back to the dedicated classic gamer that is a regular forum goer and such as the core of their market for this.

People like ourselves.

Well sure, that's one example. but even in my tiny town here, that wasn't the case for the RetroN5, Atari Flashbacks, or even the $200 NeoGeo X Gold.

Out of curiosity, what sort of store carried the NeoGeo X? I've came across many instances of Atari Flashbacks, AtGames Sega products, and such but I never came across one of these. Did they ever get it carried in a major brick & mortar chain?

I rather figured that online accounted for the vast majority of sales of that one. Wasn't particularly cheap and at least around here, it didn't seem available at retail.

[wiggyx]

I see clone consoles at many local game shops. Dunno if they sell at all, but I do see them all over the place here.

[Leo_A]

Are you in an urban area? Outside of those, local game shops are few and far between. When they've tried such a thing up here in upstate NY for instance, it never sticks around for long. So it's just GameStops along with the usual other major retail chains that carry videogames as a sideline. And clones have next to no presence at such retailers.

I'd probably have to go two hours to find the nearest nice independent game store.

[wiggyx]

In the 'burbs of Cleveland and Akron, Ohio.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Out of curiosity, what sort of store carried the NeoGeo X? I've came across many instances of Atari Flashbacks, AtGames Sega products, and such but I never came across one of these. Did they ever get it carried in a major brick & mortar chain?

I rather figured that online accounted for the vast majority of sales of that one. Wasn't particularly cheap and at least around here, it didn't seem available at retail.

A family owned game shop that sells used games and consoles. It's not a large retail chain, but rather a local business that has a few stores in three local towns within 30ish minutes driving distance. They sell a number of clones, not just the NeoGeo X.

It's not GameStop or anything like that.

[mercuryshadow09]

This is a copy paste from this thread!

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...rst-look/page3

So it looks like you will be able to save to the RetroN5 or the cartridge!



Here is a link to the video I got the screen cap from, Hyperkin posted it on their Facebook page today!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac0-N...&feature=share

https://www.facebook.com/HyperkinGames