Pretentiousness in indie games

[Tupin]

Maybe it's just because I read the story of Phil Fish and can't believe what he spews out of his mouth on a regular basis, but doesn't it seem like this whole "indie" trend is sort of becoming annoying? It's the same "retro-inspired" games over and over again hyped up by people with massive heads and little respect for what made the games they're inspired by fun to begin with. I know these people want to advance the whole "games ARE art" argument, but I also think they forgot that games are supposed to be entertaining. All these games that are heralded as better than anything a major company could make and a rebirth of the industry just kind of seem the same to me, and put on a different coat of paint.

Yes, I got like this after playing Fez. Why was that game in development for so long? Why does he insist it's still relevant in a market flooded by games all trying to "out edgy" and be "2artistic4u?"

Balance is key, in my opinion. Game makers seem to think that they either have to go so "indie" or "hardcore" that you wonder if they were made as parodies. Very few games try to incorporate the good from both, and I personally think that's sad.

[BricatSegaFan]

Maybe it's just because I read the story of Phil Fish and can't believe what he spews out of his mouth on a regular basis, but doesn't it seem like this whole "indie" trend is sort of becoming annoying? It's the same "retro-inspired" games over and over again hyped up by people with massive heads and little respect for what made the games they're inspired by fun to begin with. I know these people want to advance the whole "games ARE art" argument, but I also think they forgot that games are supposed to be entertaining. All these games that are heralded as better than anything a major company could make and a rebirth of the industry just kind of seem the same to me, and put on a different coat of paint.

Yes, I got like this after playing Fez. Why was that game in development for so long? Why does he insist it's still relevant in a market flooded by games all trying to "out edgy" and be "2artistic4u?"

Balance is key, in my opinion. Game makers seem to think that they either have to go so "indie" or "hardcore" that you wonder if they were made as parodies. Very few games try to incorporate the good from both, and I personally think that's sad.

I cannot agree with you more. Indie games were ok when they were first introduced, but yes it does seem to be the same ol same ol.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Phil Fish is an idiot who doesn't represent the majority of indie developers.

Guess what indie devs want to do? GOOD GAMES. And they don't need to badmouth everyone or pretend to be better than anyone to do so.

[SpaceHarrier]

Heh, as soon as I read this thread's title, I thought of that Fez douche.

[Tupin]

The thing is, Fez would have been a new interesting thing if it came out when the indie craze started, in 2007. I was sure it was vaporware.

Hopefully it will be the last thing Fish makes. Fez should be his Daikatana.

[Berserker]

Seems like the actual topic here is pretentiousness in indie game developers, not indie games themselves. Game developer "personalities" coming off like arrogant douchenozzles is not exactly a recent phenomenon. I suspect the main reason we notice this more from the indies lately than the mainstream is probably because there aren't armies of PR representatives buffered between them and us like there are with these larger companies nowadays.

It can be interesting to follow and get caught up in this sort of drama that pops up now and again, but when all is said and done it's the game that they made, not some stupid thing that they said, that tends to matter much to me.

[Dr. BaconStein]

From what I can tell, it's just a very small but extremely vocal group of them that do this for attention. I guess they know their games aren't that great so this is how they "market" them. What's upsetting is that it gives a bad name to independent developers/games and makes it harder for the good ones, the ones who actually care (like Vector Unit, SilverTree Games, etc). At this point, "indie" has basically become synonymous with ugly retro imitations and pretentious devs.

Games are art, but in the same sense that movies and TV are art. I think too many misinterpret this and use it as a source to express all of their ramblings that nobody actually cares about (i.e. Seth McFarlane) which is never a good idea.

[Zthun]

Maybe it's just because I read the story of Phil Fish and can't believe what he spews out of his mouth on a regular basis, but doesn't it seem like this whole "indie" trend is sort of becoming annoying? It's the same "retro-inspired" games over and over again hyped up by people with massive heads and little respect for what made the games they're inspired by fun to begin with. I know these people want to advance the whole "games ARE art" argument, but I also think they forgot that games are supposed to be entertaining. All these games that are heralded as better than anything a major company could make and a rebirth of the industry just kind of seem the same to me, and put on a different coat of paint.

Yes, I got like this after playing Fez. Why was that game in development for so long? Why does he insist it's still relevant in a market flooded by games all trying to "out edgy" and be "2artistic4u?"

Balance is key, in my opinion. Game makers seem to think that they either have to go so "indie" or "hardcore" that you wonder if they were made as parodies. Very few games try to incorporate the good from both, and I personally think that's sad.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I wanted to answer the bold part, cause I get tired of this attitude from consumers. It took so long because it wasn't ready. I understand that most people think that games only take 10 minutes to create and it's always easy as copy/paste, but coding a well thought out architecture is actually challenging, and when you have a team, not everyone on the team always pulls their weight. Usually, it's 1-5 people on a team of 100 pulling the other 95-99 weaklings because they're just bodies the boss threw at the project. Most developers can't develop anything worth diarrhea (especially outsourced programmers - they're often garbage walmart developers).

In the end, it's better for the 1-5 developers to take the time and pull the rest of the team to make a solid product than to release complete garbage on a timeframe for impatient gamers. That's how you get Sonic the Hedgehog for XBox 360.

[SOL BADGUY]

This is the first time Ive seen Phil Fish, what a dbag hipster. But if youre making a small budget game with a limited release you really need to go in other directions than Bioshock or COD or any other AAA title. The platformer and RPG genres are the perfect ones to do this with.

[Daltone]

Games are like films.

You have the multi-million dollar big budget blockbusters, indie releases made by nobheads with their heads up their own arses and somewhere in the middle the people who are doing it for a fun, or for a challenge, or because they have a good idea.

Big budget blockbusters (CoD etc) are just as legitimate as micro indie releases designed to probe the human condition in six pixels or less.

[jb143]

I certainly got the pretentious vibe from Jonathan Blow; but I've also heard and read from others that truly do come across as "humble indies". I think the issue isn't so much that indie developers are pretentious, but that the pretentious ones get the most media attention. It's hard enough getting your game out there and noticed, but if you start making noise and bad mouthing the industry then heads will start turning. And I'm pretty sure some do it simply for the attention it brings them and subsequently their games. Bad publicity, you know. On the other hand, some(just like any given portion of any given industry) are likely just jerks.

[Trumpman]

Are you kidding me? Fez was one of the best games of last year. Phil Fish may be a weird dude, and speak his mind a bit too much, but you have to respect his game.

And no, I'm not sick of the indie game "craze" -- they're some of the best games coming out these days.

[Jorpho]

The thing is, Fez would have been a new interesting thing if it came out when the indie craze started, in 2007. I was sure it was vaporware.

Hopefully it will be the last thing Fish makes. Fez should be his Daikatana.

Limbo and Retro City Rampage, at least, also had astonishingly long development times And Black Mesa, for that matter.