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Thread: Curious about how DP feels about restoration projects on classic games

  1. #61
    Alex (Level 15) Custom rank graphic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikointeractive View Post
    To make everyone happy, you can do repro labels with small "reproduction Label" print so you don't get pointed like you are trying to scam and bootleg. Thanks to the big amount of ebay/paypal scams, usually people get defensive when making transaction, so in order to avoid any problem, you should add that small print. Your label will still look nice and would not be considered by many as an attempt to bootleg. Another recommendation, you should NEVER take off the original label, no matter how bad it is, you should use a donor cart of a crappy game you do not like to "reconstruct" your game.

    I've sold a couple of times SNES games with a repro label (which had the "reproduction label" print on the design) and I included both the original beat up shell, and the new reproduced one; the shell was somewhat different than the original SNES shells, and it still sold for a very good price.
    If he was willing to do this I wouldn't have a problem with it. He said numerous times that he wants to have a new label made that's 100% identical to the original, and this is for Ninja Gaiden Trilogy which is one of the most valuable games on the system. Maybe you should read his posts more closely before just agreeing with them.

    I'll just post a couple of his posts below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    The idea to me is that it's not the job of a select group of people to smear and attack someone seeking repairs and/or help. That's why that saying 'buyer beware' is out there a you need to think for yourself, not just attack anyone attempting to work on their own stuff they rightfully own as if their property is socialist community property. I know the fear is real, but telling people what to do with their own goods I find far more offensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    What I meant basically keeping it simple. I own a game that has a label with some holes and rubbed white parts on the label, otherwise stunning shape, it's Ninja Gaiden Trilogy. What I'd like to do is ask for, and then do the work to have a like for like copy of the label done. I tried a few times over at NA to do this and the very protective types there attacked and tried to discourage me. Eventually I got in contact with a couple over PM who didn't want to get blown out and I got a lead on a label. I found it, it's a true copy down to even the right DPI (same with Lufia II of sheer luck on the same location which I also need.) Then when I've and others tried to get help on the suggestions for printing, again attacks and dissuasion aganist it (even offers for free custom made labels so I wouldn't) because it makes the game supposedly 'not real' anymore or original even though what counts (the board) is 100% solid, shell too, just a shit label. People making good copies to defraud sucks, but it's going to happen regardless just look at ebay or the need for some to use VGA.

    On topic or not that's some solid information and I think I'll look into it. Buyatari is right it was a public question and they happen fairly often there. There's now a rule on the site that you can't help people with it including in private messages as they'll check and possibly ban you for it. I had this guy writing me about it and told them I was also signed up here if he wanted more help since I didn't want to get an admin checking my mail. I had another dude congrats me for standing up to the people who go after those wanting to do that stuff freedom of speech and all that. I'm totally with you I get so angry about it because it's like there's this asinine mentality that video games are an entirely unique collection mystique and that people shouldn't have to do their own due diligence or question asking. Instead basically video games need to be like some socialist thing where everyone has the same access to the same stuff and you make due with what you have and that you only do what people say you can do with your property and nothing else, it's like video games are community property which is crap. I tried making the car argument more times than I can remember and I get called stupid and that they're nothing at all alike, same with books and comics. But the truth is they are. When you buy a used car with a new paint job on it, do you have to take a red paint job and white ink on every painted panel saying 'reproduction' on it? Fuck no. If you sell you give receipts, papers, and the rest and tell them that, but clearly not everyone is honest, but that's the buyers problem for being stupid. It's not the job of a small minority of people online to be the video game police.
    Maybe I'm misinterpreting his posts. If so I would appologize, but I'm pretty sure I'm right about how I'm interpreting them.

    To me it comes across just like I said, he's complaining about anyone who disagrees with him about making 100% perfect label replacements. Anyone who disagrees is attacking his right to personal freedom with his property, that either you agree with his view or you're an asinine socialist who thinks video games are community property. It would be the buyers fault for not noticing that a 100% identical looking label is actually a reproduction label.

    I just don't like seeing people get ripped off with fake labels, I want my games to be completely authentic. I have a MUSHA with a ripped label but I'm not going to change the label, I'd rather keep it authentic. With people accepting 100% real looking labels being made you know people will start selling games with them as though they were real labels, or just using the labels on pure repro carts as most buyers don't open their games to check the boards. If all that matters is the board being real, why do copies with ripped labels sell for less money? Cosmetic condition of the games matter, and selling replacement labels as real ones isn't something I would approve of.

    This thread asked how people felt on the subject so I spoke honestly, it wasn't just a thread asking for help on getting them made, it asked about opinions. Of course anyone who explained their views including the valid concerns about fraud gets called a socialist or a part of the video game police. I previously posted "fascist" instead of "socialist" but with the way he talks about it I'm pretty sure he meant fascist instead, yet he complained that I somehow pulled it out of nowhere. It really seems to me that he created this thread to complain about people disagreeing with him, rather than honestly wanting to know other peoples' opinions on the subject.

    I'm not even on Nintendo Age, usually I disagree with them on most things relating to the hobby. Grading games or valuing screw varients differently isn't something I agree with, with 100% identical looking labels it's almost the one thing I do agree with them. I'm not just agreeing with them because I'm supposedly registered there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8-Bit Archeology View Post
    I recently got burned in buying Pokemon GBA titles. I never had any and a friend told me to check them out, since i am a big Link DX fan. It was a noob mistake, I zoomed on the pics and checked feedback, but still. The carts where perfectly colored, clear and the labels looked right. I did not do enough research to find out that the pokemon games have metallic ink. I never have had a metallic ink GBA title so I had no idea it existed. When I got them I got suspicious and popped one open. In "chinese" it said ROM on the chip. And the board serials where all the same [hot wheels stunt track] I am bummed that I can never trade or sell these games legally or with a clear concience. so I will keep them and play them. But it does really suck knowing I have fake games. It may not be everyones thing, but I dont flash, play emulators or buy bootlegs (on purpose). I like having authentic games I once rented as a kid. I dont care about cases and all but I dont want fake.
    I would demand a refund if it's not too late to do so. Selling counterfeit goods is against eBay policy (besides being illegal in general), and I'm assuming the seller didn't state that it was a fake so you've got him/her on item misrepresentation too. There's pretty much no way for you to lose your case. Sure, you could keep them and try to play them if you want, but those are games that save progress and GBA bootlegs are notorious for having saving problems, where they don't save at all, the saving function dies after not much time, or they're unreliable and lose files. With games like Pokemon, I personally don't think it's worth the worry.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    BuyAtari I know you don't agree with it, and I also don't like arguing with you as on the other site we tend to agree on a lot of other stuff as I find I like your posts when you lay the screws into various peoples stupid posts on certain things. You're right, someone being out just to rob someone probably might give up because they're stupid and lazy, others might just be impatient or worn out failing to figure it out, you just never know.

    Gameguy I may be a lot of things, but socialist isn't one. Hell I was throwing that word around as a counter in the similar thread that spawned this one. Also as I said for myself I'd like the capability to do a like for like for personal reasons and also said that if I ever sold out I'd have the replacement and original front, but obviously not everyone is that nice, a fool would think they would be. I don't like seeing people get scammed, if you read my posts at NA over the time there that's clear, but I also don't like seeing the screws laid to someone looking to do something for themselves with their property in a certain manner as it's there stuff and not my job to deny them that right nor tell them what to do with their junk either. I'd think the proper thing would be if you smelled bullshit, don't reply. I only created the thread to test the waters here to see how people felt about the subject, that's it. Had I never thrown in the little piece about discussion being cut off at the other site, you couldn't have even made the argument I was having a tantrum and trying to get people who agree with me since they wouldn't there. You can choose to believe that or not, but I really just wanted to know.

    I also agree with you grading games is just overboard and adding dollar signs just because a piece of plastic has more or less screw holes in it or if a seal is filled in or not, oval or circle, I could give a fuck, it doesn't make the game any more or less fun.

  4. #64
    ServBot (Level 11) Edmond Dantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    Sure there are people who think for themselves and only for themselves, they're called psychopaths. They have no problem doing whatever they want regardless of what other people think or feel as they have no empathy for others.
    Okay, stop right there. You're taking a basic premise--"some people think for themselves"--and immediately jumping to the extreme end of the slippery slope--"those people are psychopaths."

    Please avoid this kind of thing. It's silly, and it does no one any good.

    Of course they're repressed by "laws" that other people decide for them, limiting what a person can and cannot do. Why can somebody be arrested for walking naked through a public park? Who decides that nudity has to be avoided? Who restricts these freedoms? Apparently not society, and apparently none of your personal views were influenced by how you were raised by your parents. Or that's what you're saying.
    No it's not.

    And if there's no such thing as objective morality, then why are a lot of the same things considered evil across different cultures? If morals were always subjective, then you'd think there'd be a culture somewhere where its honorable to steal or honorable to rape women, perhaps even encouraged. But nope, it's considered evil just about everywhere, and most cultures developed these morals independently.

    Now I'm not gonna invoke God or any other sort of Higher Power here, but still, it is food for thought.


    You do realize this is a site aimed at collectors, right?
    I'm hardly the first person on this site to diss the collector mentality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    I know that, and I can respect that which is why I decided to post here and ask how this site deals with it and their feelings as I was really curious. I'm glad to see it's a bit more even handed and open on being assisting of others in such things than a total combative shut down is all.

    I'm kind of surprised you feel shocked I'd write that as I've said it on NA enough times before so it's not new. The fact is I have no problem helping someone if they need it, and I wish if I asked for it I could get it too without it turning into a taboo ass kicking for it. Sure the argument could be made true or not helping someone could be aiding in bootlegs, but regardless if I say something or not, if the intent is there someone else will supply it anyway or they'll keep digging for an alternative on their own and get it. Since nothing I've shared is private knowledge I just don't have a problem with it. It's not like if I asked if that person was going to bootleg or not they'd be honest about it so asking would be pointless before sharing.
    No one probably wants to help you because they aren't ignorant enough to shoot them selves in the foot. Literally you could end up aiding a bootlegger that ends up putting fakes into circulation that could end up in your very own collection or the person that helped. It's a lot easier to not help and just ignore then to help just because you want to see free speech and less censorship on the situation. That's like teaching your enemy to use weapons.

    You try to make it out to be a case of free speech and censonship and it's more about stupidity.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    No needler it really is a case of censorship, it's withholding information for personal selfish reasons. As Dantes said above, dissing the collector mentality (that goes too far) seems fair as I think of things as a two way street and not so much in absolutes. I know people will have any potential motive for the use of the information, that's a given and foolish to think otherwise. I just don't like screwing good people just because of some random assholes. It's a larger thought beyond labels into just general retarded laws that go on the state or national books because of a few screw balls that mess it up for everyone else taking more and more freedoms away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    No needler it really is a case of censorship, it's withholding information for personal selfish reasons. As Dantes said above, dissing the collector mentality (that goes too far) seems fair as I think of things as a two way street and not so much in absolutes. I know people will have any potential motive for the use of the information, that's a given and foolish to think otherwise. I just don't like screwing good people just because of some random assholes. It's a larger thought beyond labels into just general retarded laws that go on the state or national books because of a few screw balls that mess it up for everyone else taking more and more freedoms away.
    You're right, not wanting to be ripped off or defrauded is selfish. In my opinion, it's still a valid reason for not freely sharing the information and tools needed to commit such a fraud. You may not agree with the laws, but they were enacted to protect consumers from being defrauded and artists and content creators from having their valuable contributions to our society stolen.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Buyatari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    No needler it really is a case of censorship, it's withholding information for personal selfish reasons. As Dantes said above, dissing the collector mentality (that goes too far) seems fair as I think of things as a two way street and not so much in absolutes. I know people will have any potential motive for the use of the information, that's a given and foolish to think otherwise. I just don't like screwing good people just because of some random assholes. It's a larger thought beyond labels into just general retarded laws that go on the state or national books because of a few screw balls that mess it up for everyone else taking more and more freedoms away.
    Censorship isn't really the best word for it but I can accept that if that is what it takes. To me it is more of a respect issue. Somethings are just asking for trouble.

    You don't walk over to your best friend's house and whisper in his wife's ear how good her tits would feel in your mouth when he walks out of the room.
    You don't walk into the Holocaust museum and discuss with survivors and family members of the victims all of your conspiracy ideas.
    You don't post the home address of your millionaire uncle online and mention that he will out of the country for the next 2 weeks without any home security.

    And

    You don't post how to pass off better looking fakes on the very forums where collectors of those items reside.

    Even if you can do it WHY? If you really want to help then there are so many others with real projects which contribute to all. You have a lot to pick from. There are guys out there who go seriously out of pocket just to produce something of value we can all enjoy. There is everything from websites with useful information to local and national conventions, video game museums and even the production of unreleased prototype hardware going off of nothing but a discarded blueprint found in the trash.

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    If you really want to learn how to make a near identical reproduction of a label, find a printing studio or school that teaches print in your area. That's how I learned, six years as both a student, worker and teachers at a local print studio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    If he was willing to do this I wouldn't have a problem with it. He said numerous times that he wants to have a new label made that's 100% identical to the original, and this is for Ninja Gaiden Trilogy which is one of the most valuable games on the system. Maybe you should read his posts more closely before just agreeing with them.

    I'll just post a couple of his posts below.



    Maybe I'm misinterpreting his posts. If so I would appologize, but I'm pretty sure I'm right about how I'm interpreting them.

    To me it comes across just like I said, he's complaining about anyone who disagrees with him about making 100% perfect label replacements. Anyone who disagrees is attacking his right to personal freedom with his property, that either you agree with his view or you're an asinine socialist who thinks video games are community property. It would be the buyers fault for not noticing that a 100% identical looking label is actually a reproduction label.

    I just don't like seeing people get ripped off with fake labels, I want my games to be completely authentic. I have a MUSHA with a ripped label but I'm not going to change the label, I'd rather keep it authentic. With people accepting 100% real looking labels being made you know people will start selling games with them as though they were real labels, or just using the labels on pure repro carts as most buyers don't open their games to check the boards. If all that matters is the board being real, why do copies with ripped labels sell for less money? Cosmetic condition of the games matter, and selling replacement labels as real ones isn't something I would approve of.

    This thread asked how people felt on the subject so I spoke honestly, it wasn't just a thread asking for help on getting them made, it asked about opinions. Of course anyone who explained their views including the valid concerns about fraud gets called a socialist or a part of the video game police. I previously posted "fascist" instead of "socialist" but with the way he talks about it I'm pretty sure he meant fascist instead, yet he complained that I somehow pulled it out of nowhere. It really seems to me that he created this thread to complain about people disagreeing with him, rather than honestly wanting to know other peoples' opinions on the subject.

    I'm not even on Nintendo Age, usually I disagree with them on most things relating to the hobby. Grading games or valuing screw varients differently isn't something I agree with, with 100% identical looking labels it's almost the one thing I do agree with them. I'm not just agreeing with them because I'm supposedly registered there.
    Dude, may be you need to read posts better, I never agreed on anything, I just gave up my advice. Advice is not equal to agreeing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikointeractive View Post
    Dude, may be you need to read posts better, I never agreed on anything, I just gave up my advice. Advice is not equal to agreeing.
    One would assume that if you are giving advice that you agree with that advice. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite at best and at worst a sociopath.

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) Pikointeractive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    One would assume that if you are giving advice that you agree with that advice. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite at best and at worst a sociopath.
    Seriously? Did you even read my post?

    I told him to add a "reproduction Label" print to the labels to keep everybody happy, and somehow that turns me into a sociopath. lol hello NA

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    You don't even have to add "reproduction label" to the art itself. you could always put a "reproduction label" sticker on your cart separately, or a note in the game's box that says "the label on this cart has been reprinted"
    [quote name='Shidou Mariya' date='Nov 17 2010, 10:05 PM' post='4889940']
    I'm a collector, but only to a certain extent.
    Not as extreme as Rickstilwell though.[/quote]


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikointeractive View Post
    Seriously? Did you even read my post?

    I told him to add a "reproduction Label" print to the labels to keep everybody happy, and somehow that turns me into a sociopath. lol hello NA
    I'm pretty sure he's talking about the first part of your post where you called me a troll and recommended that my comments be ignored, and now claim you didn't agree with Tanooki when you said it. It's like you don't even read your own posts.

    After that you gave the suggestion to mark the labels as reproductions, which was already rejected on the first page and is why people are complaining about all this. Nobody cares about new labels marked as reproductions, that's not the issue.

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    Default Restoration to classic is ok as long as

    I don't have much of a problem with someone restoring a classic game as long as it's done right and with tastle.Games like NWC and Stadium Events need to be restore by someone with game restoration experence though.I wouldn't attemp to restore games in that particular class unless I'm a expert with at least a few years experence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    No needler it really is a case of censorship, it's withholding information for personal selfish reasons. As Dantes said above, dissing the collector mentality (that goes too far) seems fair as I think of things as a two way street and not so much in absolutes. I know people will have any potential motive for the use of the information, that's a given and foolish to think otherwise. I just don't like screwing good people just because of some random assholes. It's a larger thought beyond labels into just general retarded laws that go on the state or national books because of a few screw balls that mess it up for everyone else taking more and more freedoms away.
    Just because somebody asks a question doesn't mean anyone is obligated to answer it. Hell, nobody is even required to read it. I mean, if somebody makes a topic called "What's your favorite video game?" and I think "Eh, who cares" and skip past it, am I some selfish jerk withholding information just because I didn't feel like answering? Nobody has any "right" to get their questions answered on a message board, and nobody is denied any "freedoms" or getting "screwed" if they don't get any responses. People who answer questions are doing so just because they feel like it or out of the kindness of their hearts, and the topic creator should feel fortunate to get those answers, not entitled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    I'm pretty sure he's talking about the first part of your post where you called me a troll and recommended that my comments be ignored, and now claim you didn't agree with Tanooki when you said it. It's like you don't even read your own posts.

    After that you gave the suggestion to mark the labels as reproductions, which was already rejected on the first page and is why people are complaining about all this. Nobody cares about new labels marked as reproductions, that's not the issue.
    And Still I don't think you read that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pikointeractive View Post
    Is funny how there is always a guy that "tries to find the motives of a thread" but it is just trying to troll, crap on, or pick a fight. My recommendation is not paying attention to posts that do not show a well educated point that attempts to bring a solution or some kind of a positive closure to the topic.

    To make everyone happy, you can do repro labels with small "reproduction Label" print so you don't get pointed like you are trying to scam and bootleg. Thanks to the big amount of ebay/paypal scams, usually people get defensive when making transaction, so in order to avoid any problem, you should add that small print. Your label will still look nice and would not be considered by many as an attempt to bootleg. Another recommendation, you should NEVER take off the original label, no matter how bad it is, you should use a donor cart of a crappy game you do not like to "reconstruct" your game.

    I've sold a couple of times SNES games with a repro label (which had the "reproduction label" print on the design) and I included both the original beat up shell, and the new reproduced one; the shell was somewhat different than the original SNES shells, and it still sold for a very good price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikointeractive View Post
    To make everyone happy, you can do repro labels with small "reproduction Label" print so you don't get pointed like you are trying to scam and bootleg. Thanks to the big amount of ebay/paypal scams, usually people get defensive when making transaction, so in order to avoid any problem, you should add that small print. Your label will still look nice and would not be considered by many as an attempt to bootleg. Another recommendation, you should NEVER take off the original label, no matter how bad it is, you should use a donor cart of a crappy game you do not like to "reconstruct" your game.
    Showing the bad guy how to make a near identical fake label and then asking him to be sure to add text to the label so as not to confuse anyone is not going to be effective.

    If you are good at making these labels and want to help then when a 1 post count newbie asks offer to make it for him and add the text yourself. Don't show him how to do it or worse yet don't post it for everyone to see. The thread we are talking about is not some seasoned well known respected collector. It is an unknown guy with a single post. 1st post ever on the forums and he wants to know how to make near identical labels for SNES games which happen to be the games collectors are seeing the most fakes with right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    Showing the bad guy how to make a near identical fake label and then asking him to be sure to add text to the label so as not to confuse anyone is not going to be effective.

    If you are good at making these labels and want to help then when a 1 post count newbie asks offer to make it for him and add the text yourself. Don't show him how to do it or worse yet don't post it for everyone to see. The thread we are talking about is not some seasoned well known respected collector. It is an unknown guy with a single post. 1st post ever on the forums and he wants to know how to make near identical labels for SNES games which happen to be the games collectors are seeing the most fakes with right now.
    Please explain to me how I'm showing the bad guy how to make a label?

    What are the steps I showed him?

    If you think that by me saying "put a reproduction label print on your fake label" is going to magically print/cut a near perfect label with a high quality design and the right materials.

    PLEASE, think again!

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    Kirby (Level 13) Buyatari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikointeractive View Post
    Please explain to me how I'm showing the bad guy how to make a label?
    Well that is the topic we are discussing.

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