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Thread: Exposing VGA (Video Game Grading Authority)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Is the plastic really as indestructible as the video makes it look?

    That's scary to think about....
    I embellished a little bit for the sake of comedy. In reality, the case *is* durable on 3 of the 4 sides (the back panel that acts as the venting piece is / was fairly thin. With the use of a flathead screwdriver, a hammer, and the sealing point where the bottom meets the sides however, resulted in a wonderful, 'shattering' experience.


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    Smashing open VGA coffin: + 3,000 gamer points

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    I still don't understand the point of people getting their games encased in those things. Do people really get enjoyment out of LOOKING at a game's packaging, rather than PLAYING the games inside? Are they trying to impress people and show them off? To whom? I would laugh my ass off if someone showed me a game in one of those things in person. These aren't baseball cards or comic books. I find it hilarious...

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    Even comics sealed up like this are ridiculous to me. Maybe baseball cards I can understand, since you can turn it over and still see both sides, but a comic sealed up can never be read, just like a game could never be played. It's beyond stupid.
    I only need 2 more NES games (US)!

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    A well stated video but even IF VGA's grading services add no legitimate value or protection to a service, I don't think that the term "pyramid scheme" is accurate.

    Yes, they're advertising a potential increased return on your game investment through giving it the VGA service, but VGA are not enlisting buyers of their services to go out and recruit others to have their games VGA graded for some type of tiered or incentivized pay-out.

    So, clearly some questionable practices examined, but I don't think it's a "pyramid scheme" proper.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

    Personally, I don't have any vested interest in VGA or VGA related activities since I'm not a sealed game collector and I don't ever have any valuable sealed games to sell.

    Also, I wish the VGA would be more public/transparent about themselves and the services that they offer. Not sure if that would make anything better ... but being clandestine about stuff like this and professing to be an "authority" while simultaneously not participating in industry events or public things ... you're going to rustle up your critics pretty quickly.
    Last edited by Frankie_Says_Relax; 05-29-2013 at 05:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie_Says_Relax View Post
    Also, I wish the VGA would be more public/transparent about themselves and the services that they offer. Not sure if that would make anything better ... but being clandestine about stuff like this and professing to be an "authority" while simultaneously not participating in industry events or public things ... you're going to rustle up your critics pretty quickly.
    Agreed, how they have managed to get so many people to buy into it with such a thin brand and almost no information about the process is disturbing to me. If there was a person who was the face of the VGA and talked about what they do they might actually get a bit of credibility. As people have learned with other collectibles like cards and coins, a grade is only as valuable as the credibility of the organization doing the grading.

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    Dangerboy, you touched on the one major complaint I have with VGA grading, which is the inherent selfishness of sealing away a game so that it can no longer be enjoyed by anybody. There are only so many Panzer Dragoon Sagas or Snatchers out there. If people keep slabbing them and pulling more and more of them out of circulation, they'll become harder to come by, and more expensive as a result. The only purpose of it is to boost the fragile ego of the collector and put them in an exclusive "neenerneenerneener" club.

    It's just my opinion, but I feel games are meant to be played, not hoarded and sealed away. Unfortunately, this practice does just that.

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    I've always felt sealed game collectors needed their heads' examined, more so than the rest of us simple gaming pack rats. However, I admire their tenacity. The VGA stuff I KNOW was garbage from day one, because I lived it in the sports card hobby, which is now actually dead in part thanks to grading services. It's a racket, nothing more. I don't approve of it one iota.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    Dangerboy, you touched on the one major complaint I have with VGA grading, which is the inherent selfishness of sealing away a game so that it can no longer be enjoyed by anybody. There are only so many Panzer Dragoon Sagas or Snatchers out there. If people keep slabbing them and pulling more and more of them out of circulation, they'll become harder to come by, and more expensive as a result. The only purpose of it is to boost the fragile ego of the collector and put them in an exclusive "neenerneenerneener" club.

    It's just my opinion, but I feel games are meant to be played, not hoarded and sealed away. Unfortunately, this practice does just that.
    Sega CD systems will play burned games, and so will my Saturn thanks to a 30$ mod chip. If you really 'just want to play' these expensive games there are alternatives to buying sealed copies and opening them. If you cant afford an opened/used copy then download and burn your own.
    I own 1 copy of snatcher and Ive made a copy of it to play for myself. I have no intention on selling the original, so does that make me a hoarder? I just dont see the logic in bashing people for wanting and owning nice things.
    Also, the cases can be opened so the argument that 'slabbing' them takes them out of circulation is not a good one. If someone wanted to play a slabbed game its not impossible, just take it out of the stupid case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb_hood View Post
    Sega CD systems will play burned games, and so will my Saturn thanks to a 30$ mod chip. If you really 'just want to play' these expensive games there are alternatives to buying sealed copies and opening them. If you cant afford an opened/used copy then download and burn your own.
    I own 1 copy of snatcher and Ive made a copy of it to play for myself. I have no intention on selling the original, so does that make me a hoarder? I just dont see the logic in bashing people for wanting and owning nice things.
    Also, the cases can be opened so the argument that 'slabbing' them takes them out of circulation is not a good one. If someone wanted to play a slabbed game its not impossible, just take it out of the stupid case.
    Strongly agree. There is no practical difference between someone owning a slabbed game, a sealed game, a CIB game or a loose game with respect to its impact on the overall quantity in circulation. I know plenty of collectors who regularly play their collections but still own more games than they will ever play and plenty of collectors who have multiple copies of games simply because they are too lazy to put them back into circulation by selling or giving them away. I personally think VGA grading is silly, but I don't have some moral or ethical issue with people who choose to use the service nor do I think they are hurting me personally or the greater collector community or the hobby by doing so.

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    Comics being sealed I can understand from a preservation point, prevents wear an tear, plus acid on our fingers destroys the ink and paper after decades. 16 century paper will still be around and most things printed within the last 100 years will decay to dust.

    I really enjoyed that video, video games being sealed up is beyond stupid. A game isnt worth anything if it cant be played for whatever reason.

    I posted the video on NA, but Im not going to go back there.

    I had a friend in high school who was still playing NES and he really never left that phase of his gaming life, I bet now he has a copy of NWC, at least a reproduction, but I hate him now so I hope he cries when he watches that video. SOB owes me two concert tickets he stole from my girl friend at the time (I still like her, and were buddies now), dont ask what band it was. Ive sense learned my ways musically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb_hood View Post
    Sega CD systems will play burned games, and so will my Saturn thanks to a 30$ mod chip. If you really 'just want to play' these expensive games there are alternatives to buying sealed copies and opening them. If you cant afford an opened/used copy then download and burn your own.
    I own 1 copy of snatcher and Ive made a copy of it to play for myself. I have no intention on selling the original, so does that make me a hoarder? I just dont see the logic in bashing people for wanting and owning nice things.
    Also, the cases can be opened so the argument that 'slabbing' them takes them out of circulation is not a good one. If someone wanted to play a slabbed game its not impossible, just take it out of the stupid case.
    Despite what everyone tells you, burned discs put a lot of stress on those old lasers. Even following all the recommendations (discs with a certain type of reflective surfaces, slow burn speeds, reburing multiple times) I've had problems with burned discs.

    I have made several PC-Engine backups that just will not play. You can hear the laser searching and searching and loading sometimes in excess of 3 minutes before anything comes up, there are frequently problems with audio skipping, FMV-hiccups and general crashing. I had a burned Sega CD-Snatcher that locked up consistently 30 minutes in, every time. And, the most unfortunate of all my examples, the motor on my Amiga CD-32 completely died due to using burned discs. They're not benign to the machine, and they were never designed to use anything but the appropriately manufactured disc.

    We can agree to disagree, but this is my experience. Later machines, like Saturn and Playstation may tolerate it better, but I've never really experimented with them due to my experience with the older machines.
    Last edited by Graham Mitchell; 05-29-2013 at 06:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    Dangerboy, you touched on the one major complaint I have with VGA grading, which is the inherent selfishness of sealing away a game so that it can no longer be enjoyed by anybody. There are only so many Panzer Dragoon Sagas or Snatchers out there. If people keep slabbing them and pulling more and more of them out of circulation, they'll become harder to come by, and more expensive as a result. The only purpose of it is to boost the fragile ego of the collector and put them in an exclusive "neenerneenerneener" club.

    It's just my opinion, but I feel games are meant to be played, not hoarded and sealed away. Unfortunately, this practice does just that.
    The problem with your argument is that most collectors who use VGA only collect sealed games anyway, so whether they use VGA or just keep the game sealed, it's still never going to be played. There are lots of non-sealed copies of PDS and Snatcher out there, certainly many, many times more than the relatively small number of sealed copies out there and the even smaller number that get VGA'd. Ultimately, I think collectors like yourself are just upset that prices on good, older games are going up across the board. It's just what happens when the growing population of gamers hit their prime income earning years and become willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money for games. Eventually the bubble will burst, but until then it doesn't make any sense to spend time blaming things like the VGA that while they may be annoying and uncessary for most of us, have little or no impact on prices or supply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Ultimately, I think collectors like yourself are just upset that prices on good, older games are going up across the board. It's just what happens when the growing population of gamers hit their prime income earning years and become willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money for games. Eventually the bubble will burst, but until then it doesn't make any sense to spend time blaming things like the VGA that while they may be annoying and uncessary for most of us, have little or no impact on prices or supply.
    I think people who dont have much money to collect and want the real copies of games can be mad about this organization. Sure, its not forever sealing the vault on these games, because theres emulation that people can turn to to play older expensive games. But a ton of people dont like emulation, and they dont have the money to get games like Guardian Heroes (in english) and whatnot. This grading company is making retro collecting a luxury, and theres just something wrong about that when its about childhood memories. Too many people who are into this sort of thing are drunk/high on nostalgia, and its a little creepy theyll spend this kind of money just to have those things SEALED UP in a slab for them to look at, and as the video points out, its not air tight, so it is in fact a total waste of money. All this price gauging for nothing.

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    We in the Comic Book world have been dealing with this crap for years. CGC has been offering the same thing for comics for over 10 years now. Thing is, if you got something super rare like an Action Comics #1, okay, I get the point of "Slabbing" it. The damn thing is ultra rare and very fragile. Still, it just seems ridiculous to me, not to mention that it can easily be counterfeited these days. Video games though? Man, they are meant to be played. Slabbing a game just seems like such a waste to me. Bunch of Shelf Monkeys showing off their perfectly pristine and Germ free collection. Yeah, you look at your box gallery in plastic and I'll enjoy playing my games, thanx'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb_hood View Post
    I have no intention on selling the original, so does that make me a hoarder? I just dont see the logic in bashing people for wanting and owning nice things.
    Yes it does make you a hoarder, look up the definition. Most people could care less if you want to waste your money on something as retarded as getting a game "graded" and put in some plastic case, by some mysterious "authority". It won't stop me from laughing at you and making fun of your stupidity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeM View Post
    I think people who dont have much money to collect and want the real copies of games can be mad about this organization. Sure, its not forever sealing the vault on these games, because theres emulation that people can turn to to play older expensive games. But a ton of people dont like emulation, and they dont have the money to get games like Guardian Heroes (in english) and whatnot. This grading company is making retro collecting a luxury, and theres just something wrong about that when its about childhood memories. Too many people who are into this sort of thing are drunk/high on nostalgia, and its a little creepy theyll spend this kind of money just to have those things SEALED UP in a slab for them to look at, and as the video points out, its not air tight, so it is in fact a total waste of money. All this price gauging for nothing.
    Again, it has zero impact on you. Just because a small group of people are buying and selling VGA games at outrageous prices, it doesn't mean that a non-sealed or cartridge only copy of Guardian Heroes is suddenly super expensive. The reality is that many more people are collecting and playing older games than have ever done so before and as a result, prices have gone up as supply has shrunk and demand has increased. It's as simple as that. 99% of older games out there are not sealed and of that 1% that are, fewer still are sent to VGA. I understand that people want someone or something to blame, but maybe a better use of your time is to find a less expensive hobby or a better way of earning a living so you can afford the ever increasing prices because even if VGA folded tomorrow, game prices on older, good games will continue to rise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeM View Post
    I think people who dont have much money to collect and want the real copies of games can be mad about this organization. Sure, its not forever sealing the vault on these games, because theres emulation that people can turn to to play older expensive games. But a ton of people dont like emulation, and they dont have the money to get games like Guardian Heroes (in english) and whatnot. This grading company is making retro collecting a luxury, and theres just something wrong about that when its about childhood memories. Too many people who are into this sort of thing are drunk/high on nostalgia, and its a little creepy theyll spend this kind of money just to have those things SEALED UP in a slab for them to look at, and as the video points out, its not air tight, so it is in fact a total waste of money. All this price gauging for nothing.
    If people dont like emulation and want to play hundreds of dollars for one game, that is their prerogative.
    Flash carts are an excellent option, and instead of paying 400$ for a loose little samson go buy a powerpak for 145$ and play Samson, Stadium Events and almost any other nes game you may wish.
    The company is not making collecting or playing games a luxury. They grade SEALED GAMES, nothing opened.

    And think about this, if VGA did not even exist, these hardcore collectors who spend 50$-100$ each to slab games would have alot more money to blow. What would they spend THAT money on? MORE GAMES, then THAT might cause games to become harder to find.

    And yeah, people who have large collections of sealed game with the idea that they have shrinkwrapped gold will have no intention on opening them. Therefore placing them in a plastic tomb isnt gonna change anything.

    You are right, this price guaging is for nothing because the fine folks at VGA are not experts or specialists. This type of shit will only 'ruin' classic gaming and collecting if you let it bother you. There are many alternatives to buying collecting sealed games.

    Quote Originally Posted by FieryReign View Post
    Yes it does make you a hoarder, look up the definition. Most people could care less if you want to waste your money on something as retarded as getting a game "graded" and put in some plastic case, by some mysterious "authority". It won't stop me from laughing at you and making fun of your stupidity.
    And this.. just retarded. So I own a (one copy) video game that Im not constantly playing.. Im a hoarder? The same could be said about everyone here. Laugh all you want.
    Last edited by bb_hood; 05-29-2013 at 07:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb_hood View Post
    If people dont like emulation and want to play hundreds of dollars for one game, that is their prerogative.
    Flash carts are an excellent option, and instead of paying 400$ for a loose little samson go buy a powerpak for 145$ and play Samson, Stadium Events and almost any other nes game you may wish.
    The company is not making collecting or playing games a luxury. They grade SEALED GAMES, nothing opened.

    And think about this, if VGA did not even exist, these hardcore collectors who spend 50$-100$ each to slab games would have alot more money to blow. What would they spend THAT money on? MORE GAMES, then THAT might cause games to become harder to find.

    And yeah, people who have large collections of sealed game with the idea that they have shrinkwrapped gold will have no intention on opening them. Therefore placing them in a plastic tomb isnt gonna change anything.

    You are right, this price guaging is for nothing because the fine folks at VGA are not experts or specialists. This type of shit will only 'ruin' classic gaming and collecting if you let it bother you. There are many alternatives to buying collecting sealed games.
    Fact check: http://www.vggrader.com/about_whatwegrade.aspx

    "Qualified Grading Scale (items are accompanied by documentation) for opened package with new contents video games, consoles and accessories from all years "

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    how much money other collectors have at their disposal to spend is of not care to other collectors or VGA. Thats the way it goes. If you don't have a lot of money, you can't collect like others with money can.

    Think of example like classic cars. If you have money, you'll have nice, mint cars and probably put lots of money into them or spent lots of money to just buy them out right. the people selling the cars don't care if I want to buy it but can't afford it, there is someone out there who will. If they can't sell it at their asking price, they'll lower it until someone can buy it.

    So if you cant afford the asking price, it doesn't change anything until no one can afford or is willing to pay the asking price.

    Look at ebay, there are some pretty ridiculous pricing going on. Look at completed bundles. I was seeing like a SNES bundle with like 2 or 3 games and 2 controllers and they are selling in the 300+ range... I looked really hard today after looking on ebay of just cataloging everything I have and tossing it up on ebay for some stupid amount, and I'm pretty sure someone would buy it and I don't even have a huge collection of games for the consoles I own. Heck, I own a gamecube and don't even have any games for it.

    I mean, dont understand the butt hurt over VGA. They have a service that peopel are obviously willing to pay for. Then people are obviously willing to pay the high prices for good. VGA may not be 'experts' but then who is? Who defines who the experts are? Mayber they are experts because obviously they are doing it and making money of it. Why don't some of you start a competing company doing something similar if you think you are better than they are? You can even do it for free and I suspect you'd get bored quickly and start charging and then be hooked on monies.
    Last edited by bigbacon; 05-29-2013 at 07:34 PM.

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