Exposing VGA (Video Game Grading Authority)

[Buyatari]

VGA argument threads are hilarious to me.

1. The stuff they're grading was never going to be opened or played. Period. So putting it in a plastic tomb isn't depriving anyone in the entire world from playing it (except for undumped protos, which is HORRIFYING, but blaming VGA for that is shooting the messenger).

2. Some people want perfect, sealed games in their possession. Get over it. You might have a hobby that a sealed video game collector doesn't relate to. Their hobby is in no way interfering with your own: see #1.

3. People who want sealed games are often willing to pay extra for the peace of mind of knowing that what they're getting is authentic, and that it meets certain criteria. That criteria is, yes, a company's opinion that you may or may not agree with, but for the most part it's "good enough" - if you want a more-or-less flawless copy of a game, you'll know from one photograph on eBay if a VGA'd game meets your personal criteria. For people like that, it's a pretty good service.

4. The VGA isn't, as far as anyone knows, making non-sealed games more expensive. Unless you are a sealed game collector, the VGA is not affecting you at all.

5. Yes, people grade things needlessly: the $15 game example in the video, grading currently-available stuff, etc. is all pretty stupid. But who cares? How does that hurt you? People make dumb decisions, and they pay for it. If you want to get angry about people throwing money away, go protest against legalized gambling or something.

Full disclosure: I don't collect sealed games, but I have employed the VGA to grade high value items that I am selling on commission for, basically, customer service reasons.

1a. Agree
1b. It isn't like a prototype can't be unopened by someone else late so it is the same as the reasoning with 1a.

4. I would disagree with rising sealed pricing have no correlation whatsoever to CIB examples. Sealed copies selling at higher prices raise the ceiling that a CIB copy CAN sell for. Obviously in theory a CIB should sell for no more than a sealed copy of the same title so this sealed price could be considered the ceiling. Most popular CIB games will rise slightly if there is a big upwards swing in the sealed price and they certainly can't increase without it.

[wiggyx]

If you can document the origin they might agree to it. Seems almost anything video game related is fair game these days.

Here is a megaman sketch (not mine) that they just authenticated.

I REALLY want to know exactly how they "authenticated" that peice of work. Who did they talk to? What training does the person or persons have which give them any credibility? How thorough was this so-called authentification? Etc...


Also why would you slab a drawing?! The fuck?! Frame it and put it on your wall for Pete's sake!

This crap makes me wanna find the most oddly snapped and sized gaming item to have them slap in an acrylic case.

[sloan]

Games are not meant to do ANYTHING.

Ask the programmers and developers. I would venture a guess that the publishers sold them to be played.

You should watch the video, it shows that the boxes arent air tight so theres no preservation, they are sneeze guards as he said.

This is where the whole VGA bus falls apart. It really does reek of some amateur doing these in a garage. If it were truly a reputable organization, it would be easy to procure the necessary equipment to vacuum seal these cases shut. Absence of oxygen would eliminate possibility of oxidization and deteroriation.

Their hobby is in no way interfering with your own: see #1.

Umm, where people are slabbing undumped prototype ROM's and rare titles, it does interfere with my hobby.

[Buyatari]

Your example is bad...
Hes paying money for their credibility and opinion. If he doesnt like that theyre also grading those other things, which he sees as a joke, then the joke is on him for giving them his money for them to do the same thing with his stuff.

He is paying for several things including the unbiased 3rd party opinion on condition.

There are other real world applications to this concept. For example there are situations where two parties have trouble coming to terms. In these cases sometimes arbitration is sought out and a 3rd party with no bias helps them sort it out.

When dealing with condition there is no exact criteria. Condition will always be subjective. To say their opinion isn't perfect would be correct but the more business they do the more consistent this will become.

Keep in mind he is also paying for the expert opinion on the factory seal which in this day and age is becoming ever more valuable to both buyer and seller.

[Parodius Duh!]

Quick Question! What college do you go to in order to become the authority on grading video games? oh thats right! NOT A SINGLE GOD DAMN ONE! VGA holds no authority, its some nerdshit in his basement.
See something like the CGC, where paper products are being graded...well, thats needed.....and every authoritative grader at CGC is 100% certified in the judgement of condition of paper products (a Lynch). Its a requirement for the graders. What requirements does VGA have?! NOTHING just a bunch of BS. Keep wasting your money and making the price of vintage games go up. Utter morons.


And for the record not a single grading companies cases are airtight....not CGC, not AFA, not VGA. It will never happen.

[Buyatari]

Ask the programmers and developers. I would venture a guess that the publishers sold them to be played.

ehh most programmers and developers did work with the promise of a paycheck.

This is where the whole VGA bus falls apart. It really does reek of some amateur doing these in a garage. If it were truly a reputable organization, it would be easy to procure the necessary equipment to vacuum seal these cases shut. Absence of oxygen would eliminate possibility of oxidization and deteroriation.

What would this do to a cardboard box with any void inside?

Other hobbies grade items this same way.

Umm, where people are slabbing undumped prototype ROM's and rare titles, it does interfere with my hobby.

No more so than just keeping it in a drawer.

[Parodius Duh!]

My final thought:

"Those who grade videogames through the VGA are digging for gold, VGA has 0 authority for grading games. I could start up the GGA right now (Game Graders Association) and Im sure a ton of you would fall for it.

and thats it. Got a sealed game you want to keep mint? buy a simple UV protective case. Dont grade it unless your a cheapskate."

[Parodius Duh!]

If you can document the origin they might agree to it. Seems almost anything video game related is fair game these days.

Here is a megaman sketch (not mine) that they just authenticated.

CGC would grade the drawing with the proper requirements and legalization in regards to the paper used, age, drawing, and artist. Certified legal. That VGA grade means nothing. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. CGC is certified with the US Government and sanctioned US art association via the smithsonian institute (highest authorized American art & history institute)

[ProjectCamaro]

VGA argument threads are hilarious to me.

1. The stuff they're grading was never going to be opened or played. Period. So putting it in a plastic tomb isn't depriving anyone in the entire world from playing it (except for undumped protos, which is HORRIFYING, but blaming VGA for that is shooting the messenger).

2. Some people want perfect, sealed games in their possession. Get over it. You might have a hobby that a sealed video game collector doesn't relate to. Their hobby is in no way interfering with your own: see #1.

3. People who want sealed games are often willing to pay extra for the peace of mind of knowing that what they're getting is authentic, and that it meets certain criteria. That criteria is, yes, a company's opinion that you may or may not agree with, but for the most part it's "good enough" - if you want a more-or-less flawless copy of a game, you'll know from one photograph on eBay if a VGA'd game meets your personal criteria. For people like that, it's a pretty good service.

4. The VGA isn't, as far as anyone knows, making non-sealed games more expensive. Unless you are a sealed game collector, the VGA is not affecting you at all.

5. Yes, people grade things needlessly: the $15 game example in the video, grading currently-available stuff, etc. is all pretty stupid. But who cares? How does that hurt you? People make dumb decisions, and they pay for it. If you want to get angry about people throwing money away, go protest against legalized gambling or something.

Full disclosure: I don't collect sealed games, but I have employed the VGA to grade high value items that I am selling on commission for, basically, customer service reasons.

Exactly my feelings except I have not used them and don't plan on it.

I guess I just don't understand all the butt hurt going on. If they want to throw a game in a plastic case and grade it based on its condition then who cares? I wish I would have thought of it because I'm sure they are making a killing off it.

[sloan]

Truth be told, that Megaman drawing could have been done by a talented high school student who was a fan of the game and VGA would be none the wiser.

[GarrettCRW]

If you can document the origin they might agree to it. Seems almost anything video game related is fair game these days.

Here is a megaman sketch (not mine) that they just authenticated.

Seriously? Talk about penis waving. Buy a picture frame if you're that proud of your art (speaking as someone who owns multiple production cels from He-Man and She-Ra, including one from one of the former show's commercial bumpers).

[JakeM]

He is paying for several things including the unbiased 3rd party opinion on condition.

Well, Im sure more people than us have opinions on these people, and maybe some people will say "oh, I like these guys, sure Ill pay $650 for this game I can get normally for just $200" Whereas others like me will just say they dont want to deal with the item with their sticker on it.

A liars word is worthless, just like their opinion is worthless to a lot of people who do research on them.

There are antique collectors who rely on experts opinion to know what exactly their items are worth, or if theyre real. This company is making even more questions get asked by people, because they wont tell you who they are, what qualifies them over anyone else to charge money to assess condition and box them, and what their methods are in their work.

This type of company is only causing more harm to collecting than good, and not just by boxing things like a Gold Cart NWC in a bad casing or cut the side of boxes so you can see the games and manuals are in them. Theyre quakes.

You only care about money, screw you, games to most collectors are about memories and experiences, not plastic casing and money.

[Bojay1997]

Quick Question! What college do you go to in order to become the authority on grading video games? oh thats right! NOT A SINGLE GOD DAMN ONE! VGA holds no authority, its some nerdshit in his basement.
See something like the CGC, where paper products are being graded...well, thats needed.....and every authoritative grader at CGC is 100% certified in the judgement of condition of paper products (a Lynch). Its a requirement for the graders. What requirements does VGA have?! NOTHING just a bunch of BS. Keep wasting your money and making the price of vintage games go up. Utter morons.


And for the record not a single grading companies cases are airtight....not CGC, not AFA, not VGA. It will never happen.

And yet people spend money to have games graded and pay more for rare games that are of a certain grade. So while it may have no "authority", with a select group of collectors it does have credibility. I'm sorry, but spend a little time on Google and you'll quickly learn that plenty of people have issues with CGC. Ultimately, all of these companies do things the exact same way. They look at a lot of the same items and build a grading scale based on that experience. Companies that can't deliver a consistent result lose their credibility and those that can are rewarded by collectors who want their services.

Only a tiny percentage of all video games out there are VGA graded. Only a small percentage of collectors collect sealed games and even fewer use VGA. It has had zero impact on values of non-sealed games and frankly, most of this frustration is really with the fact that older, good games are continuing to go up in price. Instead of blaming VGA, you need to blame Ebay, the Internet, forums like this one and all of the thousands of collectors who have joined this hobby in the past few years. There's nothing that can be done to stop it, so if you have issues with what older games cost, either find a way to afford it, take a break until the day when prices come down again or leave the hobby completely. There simply aren't any other options.

[Gameguy]

Truth be told, that Megaman drawing could have been done by a talented high school student who was a fan of the game and VGA would be none the wiser.

At least they certified that it's a real drawing, I guess that was worth the money.

[Buyatari]

At least they certified that it's a real drawing, I guess that was worth the money.

The well known long time collector who posted this reported it took more than a year to verify. They certified it was a real drawing done by the artist Capcom hired to create it.

They do contact others outside their own company for unique items. Nothing is perfect but they don't operate in a vacuum.

[Buyatari]

Well, Im sure more people than us have opinions on these people, and maybe some people will say "oh, I like these guys, sure Ill pay $650 for this game I can get normally for just $200" Whereas others like me will just say they dont want to deal with the item with their sticker on it.

A liars word is worthless, just like their opinion is worthless to a lot of people who do research on them.

There are antique collectors who rely on experts opinion to know what exactly their items are worth, or if theyre real. This company is making even more questions get asked by people, because they wont tell you who they are, what qualifies them over anyone else to charge money to assess condition and box them, and what their methods are in their work.

This type of company is only causing more harm to collecting than good, and not just by boxing things like a Gold Cart NWC in a bad casing or cut the side of boxes so you can see the games and manuals are in them. Theyre quakes.

You only care about money, screw you, games to most collectors are about memories and experiences, not plastic casing and money.

Wow with a quick google search you have gone from not understanding a qualifed game or any of the vernacular to the summation of every complaint I've heard since VGA inception. Think for yourself much?

If you are going to form an opinion based on this there isn't much point in responding but I love to waste time so I'd try anyway.

Sure some people don't see the need for VGA. There are collectors of coins and comics and every other hobby with a grading company who refuse to use any such services. Often when these companies are introduced the resistance is the highest and while it does gradually diminish it never fully disappears. Google those hobbies and you will find similar complaints esp when first introduced.

However, with time most collectors have come to accept them as part of the hobby and most high end material gravitates towards this certification. Ask yourself why this is. There are several benefits. Even if the current owner of an item is well known and respected enough to verify the material by slabbing it certification travels with the item from owner to owner for the life of the item.

Who are they to say 85 out of 100? Well in this case it is their scale. It didn't even exist in videogames before they arrived. Before they arrived no established rating system for video games was ever used by the community. The company did grade other items before video games including action figures and the same grading methods used on action figures were the foundation for the grading scale. Then they contacted sealed video game collectors and asked what areas were most important so to tweek the scale for games.

Is it here for good? As posted before me only time will tell. If they remain consistent and learn from any early mistakes then collectors will rely on them more and more. If they are inconsistent they will fall out of favor and graded items will lose any added value they currently have.

[JakeM]

the summation of every complaint I've heard since VGA inception. Think for yourself much?

Dude, people like me who dont like this organization all dont like the same things, its easy to not like them for what they do.

Sure some people don't see the need for VGA. There are collectors of coins and comics and every other hobby with a grading company who refuse to use any such services. Often when these companies are introduced the resistance is the highest and while it does gradually diminish it never fully disappears. Google those hobbies and you will find similar complaints esp when first introduced.

These people will always be quaks, greedy quaks. If they wanted to silence critics, where are they? Do they talk on shows about their processes, or their qualifications? Do they have a youtube channel?

However, with time most collectors have come to accept them as part of the hobby and most high end material gravitates towards this certification.

Most collectors of video games are still going to want to play the games, not just look at the "plastic lifeless boxes" like you call them. Theyre lifeless when theyre in these plastic boxes because you cant use them, they serve no purpose being in them, theyre hundred dollar paperweights.

Is it here for good? As posted before me only time will tell. If they remain consistent and learn from any early mistakes

You know what, theyll still be around a long time I bet, because if the idiots who spent money to have a unqualified person put their games in poorly constructed plastic boxes, and slapped a random number on it, then those people wont ever learn. Bringing their MO from Comics and Toy collecting into video games, where things are different since games are software. This company has already made so many mistakes and people like me jump on them, but their fans who use it to make money only care about the days profit and defend it more and more.

From the way you go back and forth from typing about Pinocchio Syndrome and then posts like this, I think you probably are involved in this company, somehow.

[GarrettCRW]

I'm enjoying how the NA rallying call has been made because one dope decided to poke the nest of DERP over there. Also funny is the ensuing wave of, "Because, capitalism" that has come in with it. The VGA is a great example of people with more money than brains getting roped into something designed to "increase value".

Let me repeat the mantra: VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT AN INVESTMENT.

Sure, some things turn out to be rare, because of the usual reasons [insert story surrounding your rare game here], and hype can inflate demand (theoretically Earthbound, though the price on that has gone FULL RETARD), but that doesn't make them akin to the stock market (which is its own load of BS, but that's neither here nor there), with values rising over time. A sealed copy of Mario 3D Land is only going to be worth $999 if it's something like 2078, if ever, BECAUSE THERE ARE FUCKING TONS OF SEALED COPIES AVAILABLE. And even then, unless that puppy's as airtight as Lindsay Lohan on a Friday night, there are many ways that the game can rot in its coffin. And the protos that have been slabbed are even dumber, since few seem to have the EEPROM windows covered, and the little detail that all cart protos should never be slabbed because THE DATA HAS A LIMITED SHELF LIFE.

*prepares for butthurt*

[j1e]

I wonder if they'll ever start a service for grading factory sealed CD's? Cassette tapes? Or how about factory sealed VHS tapes or DVD's?

I got an OG Snoop Doggy Dogg - Doggystyle CD from 1993 factory sealed. It should be an 85+. I'ma get that bitch graded

[Aatos]

What I don't understand is how some of the more vocal people here (JakeM, I'm looking at you) are confused enough to think their personal stance towards VGA somehow translates into a universal truth or a frickin' moral rule about them, while completely failing to take the point of view of the people who actually happily pay for their services into account.

E.g. I personally, while enjoying the packaging, want to play all my games and not have any "archival copies" that are only paper weights (ie. keep more than 1 copy of each). Thus I wouldn't go near VGA and if I'd ever come across VGA'd title I'd have to sell it, because to me game that can't be played is useless.

BUT, I'm not a) stupid enough to confuse how much I value something with how much general public/other people might value it, and b) stupid enough to think these items would have any other cosmic purpose other than what we give to them. Hell, even life doesn't have any other purpose than what we give to it, why should some piece of plastic?!

Sure, the developers probably like the fact that their game is being played. So what, they ARE being played, there are thousands of copies, plus everything is preserved digitally anyway! PLUS, I'm sure they'd also appreciate the fact that someone loves their product so damn much that they want to keep it 100% intact and sealed. As has been pointed out GAZILLION times, VGA'd games have absolutely no effect to the availability of loose/CIB etc. copies. If someone thinks VGA'd title's price is an indication of how CIB price will develop and pays more because of that, then your beef is with that idiot, not with VGA.

"But what about the really scarce games that have only a handfull of copies left!?" you might say? Any really scarce game that has survived sealed (regardless of if it's VGA'd) to this day is at this point so valuable, it wouldn't be opened and played ANYWAY because the one opening it would be destroying thousands of dollars of value they could otherwise spend on anything else, e.g. buying a non-sealed cheaper copy of the same game. If this FACT bothers you, you need to take it with people who want to offer you thousands for the sealed game and their personal consumer preferences. I personally feel I have no right to tell anyone how they should spend their hard earned money.

EDIT: One last thing I wanted to comment on; the argument saying "VGA is only about money". Wha.. I mean, for VGA dudes, sure, it's their business and apparently damn succesfull one. But for collectors...? The argument is completely senseless. If it were only about money, why on earth would anyone be buying any VGA'd games? To sell them for profit later? Then, if you're sure there are profits to be made, why the heck aren't you buying those games, making profit and quitting your day job?