Digital Preservation of Videogames! (Crowdfunding Campaign)

[HappehLemons]

Hey all! Me and a team of people have gotten together to make a website dedicated to creating the largest searchable database of videogames in the history of the planet! We really want to change the game here. I think a lot of members here will be interested in this and we really want to hear everyone's voice here so we can make the best website possible. Please feel free to let me know anything you have any questions about anything at all! I can go on and on about the website, but everything is explained on the indiegogo page, so please take a look.
Check out the campaign here : http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/th...hive/x/3549203

Thank you!

[JSoup]

...to make a website dedicated to creating the largest searchable database of videogames in the history of the planet!

Already done, pick one of the following:

http://www.mobygames.com/
http://www.gamefaqs.com/

Not seeing what you guys are offering that I can't easily find on either of those two sites or any number of other sites across the internet.

Edit: Upon further reading, I'm still not following why a website needs crowed funding to be a website. Generally how this works is a site pops up, people like it, it grows and then various donation methods are added to help fund projects, pay for server costs, etc. It seems like you're trying to skip all the first steps and jump straight to popular website territory without paying your dues, so to speak. Additionally, tossing money at something that doesn't even seem to have a community backing (and please correct me, and link me, if I'm wrong about that) or a core to fall back on makes this a rather dicey investment.

Edit 2: I'm having trouble articulating my thoughts for this edit, I've rewritten the same sentence six times already. Something just feels off about this. I'm not sure if it's because all the flashy graphics aren't really helping and otherwise using up resources (years of work in archival studies are causing a low buzzing in the back of my brain, the buzz decodes as "keep it simple") or the fact that you guys seems to be trying to be too many things all at once. I don't know, I want to like the idea, but there is a lot in the way here.

[TheRedEye]

You guys have the drive, the dedication and the people, but my advice to you is to figure out what your core is and stick to that instead of trying to do everything. As someone who has been producing online videogame content professionally for almost ten years now I can tell you from experience how difficult it is to create articles people will actually read, I can't help but look at everything you're promising (features? a videographer?) and think you're over-scoping.

MobyGames has its problems, especially now that it's owned by GameFly, but nothing else even comes close to it. Unless someone like you guys steps up to provide a real alternative, we're stuck with the equivalent of our IMDB languishing and eventually dying. I'd advise you to figure out a smaller scope that concentrates only on out-classing MobyGames on its own terms instead of trying to please absolutely everyone who likes video games with a monstrous project like the one you're pitching. Good luck!

[Bojay1997]

Already done, pick one of the following:

http://www.mobygames.com/
http://www.gamefaqs.com/

Not seeing what you guys are offering that I can't easily find on either of those two sites or any number of other sites across the internet.

Edit: Upon further reading, I'm still not following why a website needs crowed funding to be a website. Generally how this works is a site pops up, people like it, it grows and then various donation methods are added to help fund projects, pay for server costs, etc. It seems like you're trying to skip all the first steps and jump straight to popular website territory without paying your dues, so to speak. Additionally, tossing money at something that doesn't even seem to have a community backing (and please correct me, and link me, if I'm wrong about that) or a core to fall back on makes this a rather dicey investment.

Edit 2: I'm having trouble articulating my thoughts for this edit, I've rewritten the same sentence six times already. Something just feels off about this. I'm not sure if it's because all the flashy graphics aren't really helping and otherwise using up resources (years of work in archival studies are causing a low buzzing in the back of my brain, the buzz decodes as "keep it simple") or the fact that you guys seems to be trying to be too many things all at once. I don't know, I want to like the idea, but there is a lot in the way here.

I actually agree with this 100%. I've seen this same business plan literally a million times (and not just for video games, but for movies and toys and every other kind of collectible) and the reality is that there are already many similar sites out there that have over a decade or more worth of content. If I need information about a particular game, I do a Google search. That gives me instant access to reviews, cover photos, screen shots, gameplay videos, etc...I have no interest in going to some "master" gaming website with essentially curated content. In my opinion, there is literally no new take on video games that you could create at this point that would make the site the hub of gaming for a large number of people. My advice is to develop your site on a smaller scale, perhaps aimed at an underserved niche and then build it over time. Maybe if you have good writers and useful tools, you can become one of the more popular video game websites. The general gaming public shouldn't be responsible for subsidizing your efforts when so many other amazing websites including the one you are posting on right now have done the same thing without the benefit of crowdfunding.

[sloan]

I didn't read through your entire website, but will list some of my wants in a video game database.

1. Full and hi-res label scans. For obvious reasons. Many of these games, especially rare ones, will eventually be lost for all time. Get the scans sooner rather than later.
2. Full and hi-res manual scans. See point 1.
3. Full and hi-res controller overlay scans. See point 1.
4. Scans and complete list of all originally packed-in materials, including leaflets, maps, hints books, etc.
5. Full and hi-res scans of all clamshell/jewel case inserts. See point 1.
6. Complete scans of all original boxes, all 6 sides.

[Aussie2B]

I really don't think the internet needs yet another general gaming database. I'd rather see people helping to improve the existing ones. GameFAQs already has me pretty well covered for my general database needs (developer info, release dates, cover scans, screenshots, etc., not to mention all the fan-made content), and I turn to the Digital Press database for info about collecting aspects. If I want info even more comprehensive than what you'd find in a general database, I look to system-specific databases like Game-Rave, 64DD.net, PC-FX World, the PCEngine Catalog Project, etc. While I can't say that I always find as much info on a game as I'd like, such as in cases with extremely obscure imports, I highly doubt a general database is going to fill in any of the gaps left behind after all of those, and I also doubt that a brand new general database is going to render any of those obsolete, which in turn makes a new database redundant and unnecessary.

[Bojay1997]

I didn't read through your entire website, but will list some of my wants in a video game database.

1. Full and hi-res label scans. For obvious reasons. Many of these games, especially rare ones, will eventually be lost for all time. Get the scans sooner rather than later.
2. Full and hi-res manual scans. See point 1.
3. Full and hi-res controller overlay scans. See point 1.
4. Scans and complete list of all originally packed-in materials, including leaflets, maps, hints books, etc.
5. Full and hi-res scans of all clamshell/jewel case inserts. See point 1.
6. Complete scans of all original boxes, all 6 sides.

In other words, the very tools scammers need to reproduce perfect copies of games. I'm not following why full and hi-res scans would need to be available on a website. There are very few if any games that will be "lost for all time", especially when there are so many people collecting. I think Mobygames already does a great job of providing front and back cover scans and media scans. I'd think supporting museums would be a better way of protecting games from being lost for all time.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

While I believe you shouldn't let anybody tell you what you can't do or what you shouldn't do (best of luck in your efforts BTW) - I will say that ... historically speaking, this site may not be the best place to present a plan for a crowd-funded anything.

Via the open forum that we are, expect the possibility of more detractors to make their way in and tell you (and in some cases present perfectly valid arguments) as to why your present plans may be faulty.

Again, don't let that stand in your way of your goals, but generally speaking, I'm sure you're aware that we represent a pretty curmudgeonly portion of the community.

Keep your skin tough, and again, best of luck.

[DK1105]

To me this seems like a over designed RF generation. On the anime side there are two really good databases anime-planet.com and myanimelist.net and to my knowledge all of these are ran off of donations.

There are tons of these database websites and just by quick google search for video game database you can see that there are a ton of them and many of them are long established by now.

As it stands your website doesn't seem like it really adds anything new. Design wise I would also rather clean, simple and functional over your currently over simplified arty design.

If you wanna keep at this think about what you really can do different from your competitors that would draw me to your website. I hope you prove me wrong in every way possible and you succeed and the best of luck.

[HappehLemons]

Already done, pick one of the following:

http://www.mobygames.com/
http://www.gamefaqs.com/

Not seeing what you guys are offering that I can't easily find on either of those two sites or any number of other sites across the internet.

Edit: Upon further reading, I'm still not following why a website needs crowed funding to be a website. Generally how this works is a site pops up, people like it, it grows and then various donation methods are added to help fund projects, pay for server costs, etc. It seems like you're trying to skip all the first steps and jump straight to popular website territory without paying your dues, so to speak. Additionally, tossing money at something that doesn't even seem to have a community backing (and please correct me, and link me, if I'm wrong about that) or a core to fall back on makes this a rather dicey investment.

Edit 2: I'm having trouble articulating my thoughts for this edit, I've rewritten the same sentence six times already. Something just feels off about this. I'm not sure if it's because all the flashy graphics aren't really helping and otherwise using up resources (years of work in archival studies are causing a low buzzing in the back of my brain, the buzz decodes as "keep it simple") or the fact that you guys seems to be trying to be too many things all at once. I don't know, I want to like the idea, but there is a lot in the way here.

Hey soup, I really do appreciate the comment. Mobygames is a great resource, and I do love the website, but it's outdated and incomplete and not fully searchable. If you watch the video that was posted along with the campaign I give one example of where mobygames falls flat. Having the ability to search things like multiplayer information (Players supported, type of multiplayer ect...) is something that isn't currently available on any database. But this is just one thing. Having videos of that game (And I'm talking videos of every game, organized on the page by category for each individual game) isn't being done. A complete database of manuals and boxart is so valuable, but doesn't exist either. These are parts of videogame history that are being left behind and almost ignored. I can't begin to tell you all the times I've ordered a game off ebay and wish I had the manual just so I could learn the controls and the backstory since they're such integral parts of retro games.

This is just a couple things though. Having each games related game trees listed, links to other interesting related articles that AREN'T reviews and so much more. I truly do understand your concerns, but what we're offering at Archive is different form any database that already exists.

Why are we using indiegogo? We want Archive to have 0 advertisements, this is the primary way most websites make money and we're trying to avoid this if at all possible. We have all been working on Archive for a long time now for free, but want more help and people normally aren't inclined to work a second job (Practically what most of us are doing) Without compensation. Not eveyone has our level of passion, and we understand that, but since we don't monetize archive traditionally it's difficult to hire people.

Our database will also be open for other developers to use for anything they desire with our API, this is something really unique to us, but we want to share all of the information we've gathered and let other people use for their own projects.

[Xander]

Why are we using indiegogo? We want Archive to have 0 advertisements, this is the primary way most websites make money and we're trying to avoid this if at all possible. We have all been working on Archive for a long time now for free, but want more help and people normally aren't inclined to work a second job (Practically what most of us are doing) Without compensation. Not eveyone has our level of passion, and we understand that, but since we don't monetize archive traditionally it's difficult to hire people.

I have to ask, why not? A few discreet ads never hinder my web browsing experience, and if it can help you in the long run I say why not?

[Bojay1997]

Hey soup, I really do appreciate the comment. Mobygames is a great resource, and I do love the website, but it's outdated and incomplete and not fully searchable. If you watch the video that was posted along with the campaign I give one example of where mobygames falls flat. Having the ability to search things like multiplayer information (Players supported, type of multiplayer ect...) is something that isn't currently available on any database. But this is just one thing. Having videos of that game (And I'm talking videos of every game, organized on the page by category for each individual game) isn't being done. A complete database of manuals and boxart is so valuable, but doesn't exist either. These are parts of videogame history that are being left behind and almost ignored. I can't begin to tell you all the times I've ordered a game off ebay and wish I had the manual just so I could learn the controls and the backstory since they're such integral parts of retro games.

This is just a couple things though. Having each games related game trees listed, links to other interesting related articles that AREN'T reviews and so much more. I truly do understand your concerns, but what we're offering at Archive is different form any database that already exists.

Why are we using indiegogo? We want Archive to have 0 advertisements, this is the primary way most websites make money and we're trying to avoid this if at all possible. We have all been working on Archive for a long time now for free, but want more help and people normally aren't inclined to work a second job (Practically what most of us are doing) Without compensation. Not eveyone has our level of passion, and we understand that, but since we don't monetize archive traditionally it's difficult to hire people.

Our database will also be open for other developers to use for anything they desire with our API, this is something really unique to us, but we want to share all of the information we've gathered and let other people use for their own projects.

Quick question, where are you getting all of this data and content? Are you simply taking it from other existing websites and if so, are you obtaining permission and giving credit to the sources? I just find it hard to believe that anyone could have more scans than Mobygames that has been collecting covers and other data for 14+ years and is generally regarded as the leader in the field. I also don't see how anyone could build a similar resource today in a relatively short time period without stealing a ton of content from others. Between you and your partners, do you own tens of thousands of games that you are going to personally scan and upload to your site? Where are all the videos coming from?

[Xander]

Hey HappehLemons I made an account and in the e-mail I received the system sent me my password in clear. This should not be happening =/ Are the password stored in the DB without getting hashed?

[Tanooki]

I'm curious about all the sources of the data too since you're asking for payment like this. That said though I think it's about time there was a public archive with high quality scans of boxes, labels, manuals and the rest. I'm tired of the selfish nature of a vocal minority on some places around that will crucify and attack people wanting it to guard their own selfish interests.

[Bojay1997]

I'm curious about all the sources of the data too since you're asking for payment like this. That said though I think it's about time there was a public archive with high quality scans of boxes, labels, manuals and the rest. I'm tired of the selfish nature of a vocal minority on some places around that will crucify and attack people wanting it to guard their own selfish interests.

So, your position is that asking for everything to be freely available is not a form of selfish interest? It's just as selfish as anyone else's interests in this thing and perhaps moreso because you have no time, emotional or monetary investment in your position.

People collect for different reasons. I personally don't want to have to worry about a flood of non-original copies out there because I don't want them in my collection. Other people are concerned about the value of their games going down. While I don't care about that, it's still a valid reason to be against free availability of high quality scans of entire boxes and manuals among other materials. The copyright holders also have an interest in being able to repackage their games down the road with copies of the original materials that they own like Nintendo and others have done from time to time. In short, there are lots of people with a stake in this debate and not just a tiny vocal minority.

[HappehLemons]

Hey HappehLemons I made an account and in the e-mail I received the system sent me my password in clear. This should not be happening =/ Are the password stored in the DB without getting hashed?

Hey Xander, don't worry. Your passwords are safe, all passwords are stored hashed and salted and you have nothing to fear as long as your email is secure. Although because you are not the first one to bring this up, from this point on we're disabling that feature since some people have been concerned.

I'm curious about all the sources of the data too since you're asking for payment like this. That said though I think it's about time there was a public archive with high quality scans of boxes, labels, manuals and the rest. I'm tired of the selfish nature of a vocal minority on some places around that will crucify and attack people wanting it to guard their own selfish interests.

Our database is based off what our team has contributed personally and collected and crosschecked by many, many sources. There is no single (or even 3 or 4) sources. All of our content is unwatermarked and we will freely distribute all of our high resolution boxart and manuals and other information to anyone who wants it. We believe that all this data should be distributed freely to anyone who wants it and the people can use it as they wish.

I have to ask, why not? A few discreet ads never hinder my web browsing experience, and if it can help you in the long run I say why not?

This is something the team has talked about, but we're trying hard to keep the browsing experience as focused and clean as possible. We're not looking to get rich or even make profits, just have a full collection of data that everyone can use. If we can do this without ads, that would be perfect to us!

[sloan]

All of our content is unwatermarked and we will freely distribute all of our high resolution boxart and manuals and other information to anyone who wants it. We believe that all this data should be distributed freely to anyone who wants it and the people can use it as they wish.

I love your database already. My biggest issue with Mobygames or others is the incessant use of obnoxious watermarks. If I want to upgrade items in my personal collection, it should matter to no one but myself.

[HappehLemons]

Quick question, where are you getting all of this data and content? Are you simply taking it from other existing websites and if so, are you obtaining permission and giving credit to the sources? I just find it hard to believe that anyone could have more scans than Mobygames that has been collecting covers and other data for 14+ years and is generally regarded as the leader in the field. I also don't see how anyone could build a similar resource today in a relatively short time period without stealing a ton of content from others. Between you and your partners, do you own tens of thousands of games that you are going to personally scan and upload to your site? Where are all the videos coming from?

Hey Bojay, I can understand you skepticism of our clams of having such a large database that was all fairly obtained. I can tell you that all of our content is based off datasets from a lot of people who have contributed to our project. These datasets include Fair Use information from sites like GameFAQs, MobyGames, GiantBomb, etc. We only information which is Fair Use, and this includes many smaller public domain / user with permission data sets like TOSEC, GoodSets, etc. We have also received significant contributions from sites that specialize in information about a single platform. Our website is also designed to strongly encourage any user who wants to contribute to add to our website as well.

We have gotten this question a lot, and I want to thank you for being upfront about your concerns. We're going to be updating our campaign so everyone know exactly how we get all of our information, and how we plan to share it with everyone.

[Bojay1997]

Hey Bojay, I can understand you skepticism of our clams of having such a large database that was all fairly obtained. I can tell you that all of our content is based off datasets from a lot of people who have contributed to our project. These datasets include Fair Use information from sites like GameFAQs, MobyGames, GiantBomb, etc. We only information which is Fair Use, and this includes many smaller public domain / user with permission data sets like TOSEC, GoodSets, etc. We have also received significant contributions from sites that specialize in information about a single platform. Our website is also designed to strongly encourage any user who wants to contribute to add to our website as well.

We have gotten this question a lot, and I want to thank you for being upfront about your concerns. We're going to be updating our campaign so everyone know exactly how we get all of our information, and how we plan to share it with everyone.

I think you have no idea what the term "fair use" means. There is no such thing as "fair use information". Fair use is a narrow doctrine used to provide an affirmative defense to a claim of copyright infringement which involves a four part balancing test. I would suggest you consult with legal counsel before you proceed with taking content from other sites without permission or attribution. Beyond the potential legal issues involved, taking content from other sites without permission or attribution, especially information that has been put together at massive expense over many years is a good way to attract the ire of those website owners and people who have a sense of fair play and appropriate conduct.

[HappehLemons]

I think you have no idea what the term "fair use" means. There is no such thing as "fair use information". Fair use is a narrow doctrine used to provide an affirmative defense to a claim of copyright infringement which involves a four part balancing test. I would suggest you consult with legal counsel before you proceed with taking content from other sites without permission or attribution. Beyond the potential legal issues involved, taking content from other sites without permission or attribution, especially information that has been put together at massive expense over many years is a good way to attract the ire of those website owners and people who have a sense of fair play and appropriate conduct.

Hey bojoy, thank you for the concern. We have consulted legal counsel and everything we have obtained is in the clear to share with everyone so no worries. We believe in total transparency at Archive so if there's anything more we can do to keep everyone informed we welcome any questions.