Kickstarter for a high quality, public domain photo gallery of video game hardware

[Evan]

Hi, I'm a photographer that has been taking high-quality, public domain images of video game hardware for the past three years. I host my work on Wikimedia and my images are used in Wikipedia articles, where they then spread throughout the internet.

I have a Kickstarter because I want to expand and refine the gallery that I currently have. You can find more information out here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ne-game-museum

I'm just asking you guys to check it out and judge for yourself. There's a real need for high quality, professionally-taken photos of these consoles, especially older ones. I give all of my work away for free because it's the best way to help the community. I hope you guys consider it.

Evan

[Bojay1997]

I'm not following why you need to collect donations to purchase consoles that you would then own. Why not just reach out to local collectors to lend you those consoles for the photography sessions?

[Evan]

I'm not following why you need to collect donations to purchase consoles that you would then own. Why not just reach out to local collectors to lend you those consoles for the photography sessions?

Most of the photos that I already have were taken with collaborations with collectors over the years. This gallery already includes many systems and rare items:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/U...mos/VideoGames

The problem arises because taking the photos can be a lengthy process that includes cleaning and setting up shots. What happens when taking photos with collectors is that I have limited time and tend to only do a basic console and controller shot before moving on. The gallery that I'm looking to create includes multiple angles and console breakdowns, which can take hours to shoot for one console. The only feasible way to achieve this output is by owning consoles given the massive amount of time it would require.

After the weeks or months it takes to make the galleries, I am looking to do something with that physical collection, which is why I'm working with the NYU Game Center and ICHEG to house and display the items. I would rather have the items in a space where they can be seen or used rather than in a box in storage.

[Ed Oscuro]

I have done (just for my own amusement) some of the exact same work you have here, and I recognize the challenges you face (although even I, with my propsensity for manufacturing grandiose plans I don't expend the energy to use, am somewhat bewildered by the grandiose scope of this project).

I don't want to belittle your work because it's well done and much appreciated - but this comes down to a matter of using other peoples' money. I don't see a compelling answer to the questions this raises.

Why should other people put their money towards this when (as your description seems to indicate) it raises the possibility you will give you consoles (or the money from selling them after the fact)? You need to be more explicit about this because the wiggle room in "working with museums to put things on display" (for how long? What if you decide you want to sell items?) makes people uneasy. Putting things on display for a few weeks is not going to be a good return on the donator's investment or a good legacy for museums and so on. What's wrong with just working with donators to arrange items to be sent back and forth? That would surely be a more efficient use of a donator's funds, and I don't think it would be especially hard to arrange to get good quality items. (But frankly, some of us would prefer not to donate items but take photos of them ourselves - and this is another area that is an issue; this whole aspect of "artistic vision" is fine, but it locks the whole project into being dependent on a single person to execute the whole plan, which is not how Wikipedia has gotten to be great, for example. And some of the aspects of the goal of making a well-rounded online museum, like writing articles, are not served by this limited format.)

I am of two minds about this. On the one side it's really easy to be snide and say "there's sure a lot of people asking for money to do things other enthusiasts are doing just as well for free." On the other hand I don't resent the idea of following a dream and getting paid to do good work - after all that's what academia and the arts are about.

Finally, it's 2013 and you're not using a tilt-shift lens with your camera?

[Evan]

As far as the "there's sure a lot of people asking for money to do things other enthusiasts are doing just as well for free" I can say that this is not the case. Before I started uploading pictures to Wikipedia, the state of pictures for most video game consoles was simply terrible. And this counts across the entire internet, not just Wikipedia. Even if people are taking pictures, like you did, then they do nothing with them or don't make them available.

The biggest reason that I do this work is because I know that it fills a need that isn't being met by others.

[Ed Oscuro]

I think you've got a point there, and thanks for not nuking me from orbit for my impudent comments. I mainly wanted to list that as a kind recognition of the knee-jerk reaction that some people (including myself) have. It might not be right but that is one of the perceptions you will have to deal with.

I also realized, after I posted my comment, that the Kickstarter format seems to lend itself more to buying things than to funding something over the long term like academia does. So a scholar or an artist might get a MacArthur Genius Grant, because those are areas that have been relatively well-protected by philanthrophy for decades. I bet that somebody with a career in history might find it easier to fund something like this and go through those channels. I do think my comments above still apply, but I want to figure out if there's a way to blend doing the best thing by investors and in terms of getting paid for what you'd actually be doing.

As I see it, what you are actually selling (if you are selling something) is not "buy consoles" but "pay me for my energy and experience in this area." That is fine; I just don't know if the goal works perfectly well, and as I mentioned with the selling thing, the way this is set up will invite some skepticism. Having the logo of Archive.org and mentioning the institutions is impressive, but I don't see that the connection is solid enough there. The angle of preserving a collection would probably be more understandable if it was done in a more conventional way. At the same time if you go ahead and donate everything to a collection, people have basically donated to a Kickstarter and not gotten the satisfaction of having some recognition from the institution that will house the items they bought. It just looks like an awkward process from the standpoint of the potential backer.

I am really quite unaware of how successful Kickstarter has been as an alternative to those traditional routes of preserving history, though, so maybe I'm missing lots here.

It's definitely true that the whole production process is a drag. I like the technical aspects of shooting but I really just love observing the things themselves, and photography helps me visualize that personally. The "extra" steps like spending huge amounts of time on setup, in post-production, or uploading pictures, have garnered less enthusiasm from me.

One final comment here: It's not clear to me where the line sits here between fine art and actual history. You've gone after this with the eye and techniques of a product photographer. This captures the imagination and makes many people interested again in things from long ago. But in terms of detail, I think that many of them are suited pretty well by simple exterior photos. Break-down photos are an intriguing idea but that probably has to be a labor of love. In terms of raw history, there's of course lots of "good enough" cellphone pics and things out there that a hobbyist doing repairs or mods can follow, and as a concrete aid to history that's probably all that is needed. It's a difficult question.

[MarioMania]

So you're talking other people money just for a public domain site, So you could show off other peoples collections?

[Ed Oscuro]

So you're talking other people money just for a public domain site, So you could show off other peoples collections?

^ This is exactly the kind of impression I am talking about. Best to be explicit about the goals so people can decide if it's worthwhile or not.

Not sure MarioMania's take is 100% accurate but it seems to be close.

[MarioMania]

People already throwing Money at him

[Greg2600]

Seems pretty explicit to me. His images are free to use, and he just doesn't want to buy the hardware. He is going to donate the hardware when completed.

[Bojay1997]

Seems pretty explicit to me. His images are free to use, and he just doesn't want to buy the hardware. He is going to donate the hardware when completed.

Maybe before you post you should take the time to read exactly what his Kickstarter states explicitly -

"Creating the physical archive is a necessity to create the media galleries, but what happens to it after that? The last thing I want is such an archive to sit in storage, so I'm working with the NYU Game Centerand The International Center for the History of Electronic Games to help house and display parts of the collection. These items collected for the museum will be available to students and the community.".

Nothing there about donating all of the hardware when this is complete. It simply says he will work with two unrelated archives to help house and display parts of the collection. The museum and the hardware remains his. Frankly, ICHEG has multiples of all of these machines, so I'm not following why he wouldn't just work with them to get access to what he needs. Honestly, if he was looking to raise money for studio time or even to reimburse collectors for shipping costs and insurance for the time he is borrowing their gear, I wouldn't have an issue, but I can't see funding a private collection via Kickstarter just because he is going to make photos of that private collection public. Heck, almost every collector here could make the same argument as there is literally a dedicated section of the site devoted to collection photos.

[JSoup]

Given the end goal, I think I'd rather donate directly to Wikimedia. In the past, donations have gone to supplying the project with resources for filling out articles that had no images or sound files.

[TheRedEye]

As an editor who has used your photography in countless articles, both printed and digital, you have my support. You do excellent work.

EDIT: In fact, that's my Gamasutra article with the Odyssey 1 image on your campaign page!

[Greg2600]

Maybe before you post you should take the time to read exactly what his Kickstarter states explicitly -

"Creating the physical archive is a necessity to create the media galleries, but what happens to it after that? The last thing I want is such an archive to sit in storage, so I'm working with the NYU Game Centerand The International Center for the History of Electronic Games to help house and display parts of the collection. These items collected for the museum will be available to students and the community.".

Nothing there about donating all of the hardware when this is complete. It simply says he will work with two unrelated archives to help house and display parts of the collection. The museum and the hardware remains his. Frankly, ICHEG has multiples of all of these machines, so I'm not following why he wouldn't just work with them to get access to what he needs. Honestly, if he was looking to raise money for studio time or even to reimburse collectors for shipping costs and insurance for the time he is borrowing their gear, I wouldn't have an issue, but I can't see funding a private collection via Kickstarter just because he is going to make photos of that private collection public. Heck, almost every collector here could make the same argument as there is literally a dedicated section of the site devoted to collection photos.

Who cares if he keeps the hardware or not? The point was that he explicitly said what he planned to do with them, none of which included him selling them. You whined about him not saying what he would do with the stuff. This guy is a photog in Brooklyn, so I can bet he lives in a small living space and doesn't have room for all this "bounty" as it is. Perhaps ICHEG will not want him disassembling their hardware?

As an editor who has used your photography in countless articles, both printed and digital, you have my support. You do excellent work.

EDIT: In fact, that's my Gamasutra article with the Odyssey 1 image on your campaign page!

Didn't you get the memo that no one is permitted to support a KS on this forum?

[Bojay1997]

Who cares if he keeps the hardware or not? The point was that he explicitly said what he planned to do with them, none of which included him selling them. You whined about him not saying what he would do with the stuff. This guy is a photog in Brooklyn, so I can bet he lives in a small living space and doesn't have room for all this "bounty" as it is. Perhaps ICHEG will not want him disassembling their hardware?



Didn't you get the memo that no one is permitted to support a KS on this forum?

As a potential donor it matters to me and obviously I'm not alone given the other comments here and on other forums. I didn't "whine" about anything. I stated a fact that what you claimed he said explicitly (i.e. "He is going to donate the hardware when completed") is not in fact what he said.

There are lots of photography and similar artistic projects on Kickstarter and I'm not aware of a single one where the donors were asked to pay for someone to acquire a collection to photograph. What if this guy was a really amazing luxury car photographer? Would you kick in to let him buy a fleet of high end vehicles no strings attached?

I'm not willing to essentially buy someone a collection so they can release free photos of it, especially when there are many collectors in the NYC and New Jersey area that would likely be very happy to provide this guy with a loan of the gear he needs to photograph. I would, however, be happy to support such an effort by funding the actual costs incurred by this guy to shoot his photos (i.e. shipping and local travel, insurance, something for his materials and yes, even something for his time.).

I really wish you wouldn't rush into every single Kickstarter thread guns blazing and attacking anyone who might see things a little differently than yourself. Nobody here is criticizing this guy's work as it's clearly beautiful. Similarly, nobody is saying that what he is doing is not necessary or a waste of time. I just believe that his campaign is fundamentally flawed and so I feel comfortable speaking up about it and I would hope that as a forum moderator you would embrace that healthy discussion instead of constantly trying to surpress it and misrepresent the other side of the discussion.

[bigbacon]

sounds like you just want people to pay for consoles you don't want to purchase yourself. Everyone else has nothing to gain from your photos or lending you money.

[Ed Oscuro]

I think the interesting topic here is "how can the community help out a project like this?" I think we've flogged the other angle to death.

[JSoup]

sounds like you just want people to pay for consoles you don't want to purchase yourself. Everyone else has nothing to gain from your photos or lending you money.

Well, no. The benefit for us is having a documented collection of high quality photos to be used free of charge for just about any project we may have going forward. This is normally the hardest part about archiving something, photos tend to not be left with the relevant information. In so far as that, I'm behind this. Now, as for getting to the goal, theoretically any one of us can take a photo of our equipment and just leave it open to anyone for use (in fact, it seems most of the images found in the various databases around the internet function like that, if only because people take without asking), but are those images high quality HD whatever? I feel that is the main draw here.

Personally, I'm thinking a better way would be to find other collectors with newer, higher quality cameras who would be willing to not only take pretty pictures of their equipment but to also share them for free with the community.

[Ed Oscuro]

Evan clearly knows what he's doing but I wouldn't lend any specialized equipment...I always have that time period where I need to use it.

I am not sure that a tilt-shift would make a massive difference here. I based my assumptions about the T-S from the photos' EXIF info showing a Sony camera of some kind was being used - I could be wrong. Sony isn't my preferred manufacturer (or even second) but their cameras are good enough for this kind of studio work.

What do you mean about photos not being left with the relevant information? For all intents I would say that yes, a photo of a mainboard (for example) should be tied to not only the system and the variant but also to a S/N for future reference (i.e. if somebody wants to compare photos). Presumably this is overkill for the casual game player, and I don't see why it can't be done later. Right now these kinds of things tend to be scattershot - there's this, there's old product sheets and pinouts (indispensable, and many available on NFG Forums) and other resources for dedicated users. The photos look pretty but I'm just not seeing the marketing angle here.

[JSoup]

What do you mean about photos not being left with the relevant information? For all intents I would say that yes, a photo of a mainboard (for example) should be tied to not only the system and the variant but also to a S/N for future reference (i.e. if somebody wants to compare photos). Presumably this is overkill for the casual game player, and I don't see why it can't be done later. Right now these kinds of things tend to be scattershot - there's this, there's old product sheets and pinouts (indispensable, and many available on NFG Forums) and other resources for dedicated users. The photos look pretty but I'm just not seeing the marketing angle here.

I worded that poorly. Or, rather, backwards. I've done a lot of physical archive work and one of the biggest issues we have is information being available but no decent photos to go with it. It's less of a problem with digital, open sourced archives (like Wikipedia, which isn't really an archive, but functions similar to one) where everything is copied across the internet forever.