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Thread: Mega Man Zero Collection (DS) vs original GBA games

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    Default Mega Man Zero Collection (DS) vs original GBA games

    So I picked up Mega Man ZX this week and it sort of reminded me that I have a copy of Mega Man Zero for GBA laying around that I never quite got to. I tried to play it on my DS, but found the control mapping to be painful to play for any extended period (B/A default vs the much more comfortable Y/B mapping of the DS). I hear the DS collection rerelease lets you remap the controls to be more naturally ergonomic.

    Does the collection rerelease have any particular problems over the originals? Like, are the graphics upscaled properly and does it play well? It seems a lot easier to get over tracking down all the individual Zero games.
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    The DS Megaman Zero Collection is yet another lazy complication. You're much, much better off buying the four GBA games individually and playing them on a GBA SP.


    While true, this collection lets you use Y/B if you so wish, the DS is simply not well suited for these games. Even if you use the DS Lite, the DS is a very bulky system compared to the GBA SP.

    In addition, the games are ported as-is. They use the GBA resolution, which means black borders around the edge of the DS screen. The games were redone for the slightly higher resolution of the DS, nor were they stretched to fit. You get the same resolution as the GBA games. Same sound, same wonky font that Inis Creates decided to use for the English versions.

    As the games were designed for the single screened GBA, the bottom screen of the DS is completely pointless for all games. Rather than simply turn it off to conserve battery life, they chose to fully illuminate the boxart of the Zero game you're playing as a still image that's always on.

    The one thing Inis Creates did do for the collection was add baby modes for Zero 1-3. I'm all for multiple difficulty levels but the "easy" modes included are offensive to me as a gamer as they remove all of the challenge of the games.

    Megaman Zero 4 had an easy mode built in already, as did Megaman 10. If you've played the easy modes of those, you know what I'm talking about. Its more of an insult to your gaming skills mode than it is something that you should ever actually use. Like "this mode is for people who have never seen a dpad before".

    I'll be the first to admit, the Zero games are difficult, particularity if you attempt to maintain an average A rank or higher. But the baby "easy" modes they added for this collection remove so much of the challenge they're not even worth using. You can ignore them and play in the original modes, but you're better off with the GBA originals than you are this lackluster DS collection.

    The Megaman Zero games are excellent and among the best GBA games ever made. They deserved a better collection than this. You owe it to yourself to play the original releases as this one is more insult than tribute.
    Last edited by Satoshi_Matrix; 01-05-2014 at 06:49 PM.
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    It sounds like it's indeed a lazy conversion but they're fully intact. I'd go for the DS collection if I were you if it's more economical unless you dislike the DS controls or want the option to play these on your tv.

    It also at least guarantees you games that will save. Always a risk buying GBA cartridges online, especially those that are in-demand, of getting burned and getting cheap pirated copies without the ability to save your game.

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    That's right. The only real advantage the DS collection has is economics. It's probably cheaper to buy the collection than it is to buy the four games individually.

    Even so, I still strongly recommend that's what you do, get the GBA games individually. Of course, be careful of shady sellers, especially ones that sell from Hong Kong or China in general.

    If you're not sure if the games are worth buying in the first place, this is a case when I think emulation could help. I'm not saying to emulate rather than buy the games, I'm suggesting that you should emulate to try them out and see if they are good enough in your opinion to buy.

    Otherwise, you might end up with a lackluster DS collection of games you don't even like.
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    They're action platformers in the Mega Man series. There is no doubt I'll enjoy them on some level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    The Megaman Zero games are excellent and among the best GBA games ever made. They deserved a better collection than this.
    Come now, at least it's not outright broken or something (as is so often the case with crappy collections).

    The other advantage to the GBA carts is that Mega Man ZX is one of those rare DS games that will do something special if you have a particular GBA game plugged in while you play it: namely, if you have MMZ3 or MMZ4 in the other slot, bosses from those games will appear somewhere. It is not clear if the relevant data is stored in the DS cart or if it's actually reading it from the GBA cart. Regardless, I'm pretty sure you can duplicate the effect with a GBA flash cart if you are so inclined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    The DS Megaman Zero Collection is yet another lazy complication. You're much, much better off buying the four GBA games individually and playing them on a GBA SP.


    While true, this collection lets you use Y/B if you so wish, the DS is simply not well suited for these games. Even if you use the DS Lite, the DS is a very bulky system compared to the GBA SP.

    In addition, the games are ported as-is. They use the GBA resolution, which means black borders around the edge of the DS screen. The games were redone for the slightly higher resolution of the DS, nor were they stretched to fit. You get the same resolution as the GBA games. Same sound, same wonky font that Inis Creates decided to use for the English versions.

    As the games were designed for the single screened GBA, the bottom screen of the DS is completely pointless for all games. Rather than simply turn it off to conserve battery life, they chose to fully illuminate the boxart of the Zero game you're playing as a still image that's always on.

    The one thing Inis Creates did do for the collection was add baby modes for Zero 1-3. I'm all for multiple difficulty levels but the "easy" modes included are offensive to me as a gamer as they remove all of the challenge of the games.

    Megaman Zero 4 had an easy mode built in already, as did Megaman 10. If you've played the easy modes of those, you know what I'm talking about. Its more of an insult to your gaming skills mode than it is something that you should ever actually use. Like "this mode is for people who have never seen a dpad before".

    I'll be the first to admit, the Zero games are difficult, particularity if you attempt to maintain an average A rank or higher. But the baby "easy" modes they added for this collection remove so much of the challenge they're not even worth using. You can ignore them and play in the original modes, but you're better off with the GBA originals than you are this lackluster DS collection.

    The Megaman Zero games are excellent and among the best GBA games ever made. They deserved a better collection than this. You owe it to yourself to play the original releases as this one is more insult than tribute.
    Uh... I really don't see what's so bad here. Nothing you're complaining about sounds like a legitimate flaw. Seems mostly like complaining about the hardware itself (which has nothing to do with the compilation itself), the fact that they didn't add much extras, and then complaining about what extras they did add.

    I personally have no problems at all if they're accurate ports. This is merely a compilation, designed to make the games cheaper and more accessible on a newer platform. They never advertised these games as remakes, so what's the big deal if they're ported as-is? And who cares if they added a completely optional easy mode? Don't use it if you don't like it. I know a lot of players appreciated its inclusion, as I've heard many people, even very experienced gamers, state that they were never able to beat some of the GBA originals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorpho View Post
    Come now, at least it's not outright broken or something (as is so often the case with crappy collections).
    You're correct, I'm not claiming that at all. The games are 1:1 conversions with no additional slowdown or emulation issues. They play exactly like the GBA originals. What I am saying is that since there's no advantage to playing the Zero games via this collection, one might as well ignore it and play the originals on the hardware they were designed for.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    Uh... I really don't see what's so bad here. Nothing you're complaining about sounds like a legitimate flaw. Seems mostly like complaining about the hardware itself (which has nothing to do with the compilation itself), the fact that they didn't add much extras, and then complaining about what extras they did add.
    But the hardware is the greatest legitimate flaw. true, it's not the collection's fault its on the DS, but its not the fault of countless platformers that were carelessly thrown onto iOS and android touch screen devices without any regard to how awful they play without proper gamepad controls.

    The DS isn't as bad as all that, but when given the choice, all I am saying is that the Zero games are better played on a GBA than the DS. These games don't feel natural on DS, and the system is too bulky. That is a legitimate flaw, and a fatal one where I'm concerned. I say this being an owner of this collection. I bought it for full price hoping it would enhance my favorite Megaman games on GBA, but instead it just made me better appreciate how wonderful they were on the GBA SP instead.

    The actual content of the collection is the same as the originals. These aren't bad ports. The easy modes, while useless, are merely footnotes against this collection rather than reasons to complain against it.

    Once again, all I am saying is that if you have a choice, I recommend the GBA originals over this DS collection on the grounds that the DS collection adds nothing of meaning and plays on hardware that isn't as well suited for them.
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    I will be honest, I'm playing Mega Man ZX on my 3DS XL. And it is a bit... uncomfortable. Not horribly so, but I certainly have to take more breaks then you'd expect. I think its just because the shoulder buttons are really kind of awkward, also kind of heavy in general. But it doesn't bother me that much on other types of games though. Maybe using the directional pad makes it a bit worse?
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    Getting a bunch of games on one tiny card over having to spend way more to get them all on separate GBA carts is "getting something" as far as I'm concerned. I got the collection brand new for 15 bucks, and you probably couldn't even get two of the GBA carts, loose, for that much.

    Really, I'd say it's a wash between which platform is ideal for platformers. Neither have great d-pads or buttons. Tons of gamers complain that their hands are too cramped with the SP (or Micro), but if you go with an original GBA, then you can't see crap (or you blow money modifying the system). But a DS Lite isn't any bulkier than an original GBA, so if you're gonna go with that, you may as well just use a DS with the compilation.

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    A warning if you do play these games, you may know this, but in Mega Man Zero 1 and 2 if you die and chose to fail a mission, the game will continue and you wont be able to play the mission again and you miss out on any rewards they give out permanently. So never opt to fail a mission when you die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Adventurer View Post
    I will be honest, I'm playing Mega Man ZX on my 3DS XL. And it is a bit... uncomfortable. Not horribly so, but I certainly have to take more breaks then you'd expect. I think its just because the shoulder buttons are really kind of awkward, also kind of heavy in general. But it doesn't bother me that much on other types of games though. Maybe using the directional pad makes it a bit worse?
    This is exactly my point. The shoulder buttons have used extensively, and bizarrely, the DS collection doesn't allow their functions to be mapped to the A and X buttons to make the controls match the console Megaman X titles on SNES and then on PS1. You have to use the shoulder buttons for dashing and your secondary weapon. On any model DS, this becomes more tiring than on the smaller and lighter GBA SP or even original model GBA. Using the DS to play Megaman Zero creates the opposite problem of using the GB Micro to play the Zero titles. The Micro is too small causing hand cramps as the shoulder buttons are used constantly, and the DS is too large and heavy, causing hand fatigue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    Getting a bunch of games on one tiny card over having to spend way more to get them all on separate GBA carts is "getting something" as far as I'm concerned. I got the collection brand new for 15 bucks, and you probably couldn't even get two of the GBA carts, loose, for that much.
    Yes, that's completely true. The one advantage the DS collection has is that it will save you quite a bit of money, as the Zero titles tend to hold onto their values like a lot of the best games for the GBA.

    But that doesn't outweigh the advantages of playing the original versions, in the same way you can buy Sonic the Hedgehog on ios for $2.99 or pay $20 for a CIB cart and have a better overall experience on the Genesis than you would on a touchscreen phone or tablet. Low price does not equal true value.


    Quote Originally Posted by Urzu402 View Post
    A warning if you do play these games, you may know this, but in Mega Man Zero 1 and 2 if you die and chose to fail a mission, the game will continue and you wont be able to play the mission again and you miss out on any rewards they give out permanently. So never opt to fail a mission when you die.
    Another thing to keep in mind is that in Zero 1 and 2, your weapons level up with repeated use. Once you're finished the intro stages, go back and "grind" your weapons like you'd grind in an RPG, especially the Z-Saber and Z-Buster.

    Also, with the exception of the very first Megaman Zero, your overall ranking is important. You have to maintain an average of at least an A rank if you want Zero to get the EX skills from defeated mavericks. These are essentially the weapons Megaman would get once he beats a robot master in the other games. They range from things like allowing Zero to slash upwards or downwards or suck heath from enemies, etc. You pretty much have to play these games perfectly.

    You're ranked on a lot of things including:

    -How quickly you finished the level (they want you to pretty much speedrun the levels)
    -How much damage you took (the more damage, the less this score)
    -If you died (later Zero games allow you to, but you are heavily penalized for doing so in this category)
    -How many enemies you destroyed (the more you destroy, the higher the score, but remember, you're timed so balance this with the time ranking)
    -If you've used any Cyber-elfs (with the exception of 3's satellete elfs, you're punished for using them. Just....don't on your initial playthroughs
    -Mission specific goals. if you succeeded in doing what you were told to like for example a mission when you have to disable (not kill) brainwashed reploids.

    Also its a good idea to keep multiple save files when playing the Zero games in case you screw up, or just want to replay a certain section later. You can go back, but not all missions are repeatable.


    I know all this can sound intimidating, but the rewards are great if you can play at the level the game demands of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    You're correct, I'm not claiming that at all. The games are 1:1 conversions with no additional slowdown or emulation issues. They play exactly like the GBA originals. What I am saying is that since there's no advantage to playing the Zero games via this collection, one might as well ignore it and play the originals on the hardware they were designed for.





    But the hardware is the greatest legitimate flaw. true, it's not the collection's fault its on the DS, but its not the fault of countless platformers that were carelessly thrown onto iOS and android touch screen devices without any regard to how awful they play without proper gamepad controls.

    The DS isn't as bad as all that, but when given the choice, all I am saying is that the Zero games are better played on a GBA than the DS. These games don't feel natural on DS, and the system is too bulky. That is a legitimate flaw, and a fatal one where I'm concerned. I say this being an owner of this collection. I bought it for full price hoping it would enhance my favorite Megaman games on GBA, but instead it just made me better appreciate how wonderful they were on the GBA SP instead.


    The actual content of the collection is the same as the originals. These aren't bad ports. The easy modes, while useless, are merely footnotes against this collection rather than reasons to complain against it.

    Once again, all I am saying is that if you have a choice, I recommend the GBA originals over this DS collection on the grounds that the DS collection adds nothing of meaning and plays on hardware that isn't as well suited for them.
    You state this as if it's fact and not just your opinion. Careful with your wording.

    In my opinion, the SP is the most ergonomically busted portable that Nintendo has ever produced. I'd play GBA games on any other compatible console over it.
    Last edited by wiggyx; 01-06-2014 at 01:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    This is exactly my point. The shoulder buttons have used extensively, and bizarrely, the DS collection doesn't allow their functions to be mapped to the A and X buttons to make the controls match the console Megaman X titles on SNES and then on PS1. You have to use the shoulder buttons for dashing and your secondary weapon.
    Now THAT is a problem. Can you at least double tap left and right to dash?
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    You're right Wiggy. Everything I've been saying is based on my opinions based on my experience. YMMD. In fact, I completely disagree with you on the GBA SP. It's the GB Micro that's more fitting what you said. I feel the GB Micro is the most 'ergonomically busted portable' as you say. The only reason I own one was because I loved the look of the Famicom edition one.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Adventurer View Post
    Now THAT is a problem. Can you at least double tap left and right to dash?
    Yes you can do that, but it still doesn't change the fact that the shoulder buttons are essential for use at pretty much all times. the L button is used to dash, and the R button is used for your secondary weapon, in most cases, probably the Z-Buster while the B button is the main weapon, the Z-Saber most of the time.

    You can double tap left/right to dash, but only two of the four functions can be mapped to the DS's diamond face buttons. You HAVE to use the shoulder triggers.

    I'm not sure where you fall on the GBA debate. Some people don't like the SP. I do. I like the DS, but it's too big and cumbersome for this kind of game in my opinion. What I would recommend is the Super Retro Advance and a modified SNES controller. If you don't know how/don't want to solder and modify your own controller, I offer a service where I can alter the B/A config to a Y/B config to make it perfect for the Zero games, and plus they're playable on a TV via the SNES. It's the best kind of solution imo. pm me for more info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    But that doesn't outweigh the advantages of playing the original versions, in the same way you can buy Sonic the Hedgehog on ios for $2.99 or pay $20 for a CIB cart and have a better overall experience on the Genesis than you would on a touchscreen phone or tablet. Low price does not equal true value.
    Comparing the GBA versus the DS to a Genesis controller versus an iPhone game with a virtual game pad is a bit much.

    For what it's worth, I have small hands so the SP is pretty comfortable overall for me, actually, although I find it very awkward resting my fingers on the shoulder buttons and will avoid doing so unless necessary. The SP definitely takes no advantage for me over the DS in terms of shoulder button usage, although I typically keep my fingers off the shoulder buttons of the DS as well.

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