RetroN5: Hands on first look

[stardust4ever]

JSoup is more on the money. Ive posted there since 2010, read there off and on earlier due to the unique things found. While there is a gaming board, the rest is more collector centered and it does cater to that to the detrement of people who are game players first. Check any of the repetiive long standing arguments there for that. Youll see the VGA vs anti-VGA posts pop up and when closed its because the pro VGA people cant take the heat for legit questions about their practices but is blamed on those whojust jump in to troll it instead. Then the fights over sealed over not, or how those who game should be happy with players copies (which are the less than good to beat up versions) since if youre a gamer it shouldnt matter if it works (yeah right) and others. It just is what it is, though since games have gone towards commodity trading it gets a lot more competitive and personal if not vicious in some cases which is a shame because I recall 3 years back the gaming end had a more public display of it.

Getting off topic here, but you make a valid point. Like people busting their balls over whether or not a 5 screw Stadium Events cart posted by some random seller on eBay was a one-of-a-kind variant, fake, or semi-fake case swap. Jeeze man, Rare does not equal desirable from a gamer's perspective. Stadium Events is a crap game and if I really wanted to play it I could pick up World Class Track Meet for two bucks or bundled with Mario and Duck Hunt as a 3-in-1. I made that argument once or twice and got a warning for "thread-crapping".

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I have also found that those NA people are fiercely against reproductions cartridges, especially of commercially released games. I have no such problem. I think repros are a very good thing and a giant middle finger to some of the insane prices some NES games have risen to such as Little Samson now selling for $600. Rerpo that instead.

NA guys say they're adamantly against the idea of repros because they "negatively impacts the retro gaming hobby" through sellers that would sell their repro as the real thing and never inform the buyer its a repro and not the mask rom original.

If a seller tries to pass off a repro as the real thing then the problem isn't the repro cart, its the dishonest seller. That's a totally different issue.

To me, I have no problems whatsoever with any reproduction cartridges, no matter if its a hack, fan translation, homebrew or repro of a commercially available game.

I wouldn't have any real problem with any repro seller unless they also priced their Little Samson repros at $500-600. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing at all wrong with people selling repros of Little Samson and other rarities for reasonable prices, maybe $25 a copy or something like that. If that ruin's NA's precious $600 going rate for the original copies......good.


But I do agree that people who try to pass repros as authentic originals are scumbags and should never be allowed to get away with that. Is the solution saying "no repros?" no. I also dont think the solution is slapping ugly REPRODUCTION CARTRIDGE letting on labels.

[ggallegos1]

I'm a gamer first. Always have been. I love my collection, but honestly I'm not the richest guy in the world (army lol) I admire people for their massive collections and their CIB sealed Earthbound and such, but I buy games to enjoy them. Kudos to the collector, if it makes you happy all the better. I enjoy having a good quality product and all, but I'd rather have a cart than a sealed copy to enjoy my small but personal collection on my terms.

Back on topic, I've had this thing preordered for the longest. Any word on a date besides April or do you think they'll pull a Sega and say "it drops today!!"

[Tanooki]

I think if there's a mod or admin around it may not be such a bad idea to take that post I did responding to the other and make a full thread of it as this is an open free and positive discussion of some realities that can't be had elsewhere.

I recall that argument over SE vs WCT being made before by stardust and the warnings, hell I've had plenty. Most my time there I've been a regular for private warnings for being 'negative' and public posts and the occasional lashing sometimes questioning why I even use the site since I don't fall in line. The thing is those who really know me who I talk to in the private corners there and elsewhere know when I'm being negative and when I'm being a realist. The problem is a realist is negative if you don't like what's being said. Pointing out comedic variants, the fact that VGA has no real accountability or consistency in how they grade (NA members resubmit for higher scores repeatedly before to get them due to 'value'), and the famous argument against restoration (ie: reproduction) shells, labels, and the rest. The biggest flap I'd say in the last year is just that. What defines a reproduction and what defines over the line. The best determination over at NA is that it is 100% a fair and just reproduction(ie bootleg warez) to make if it's from a region OUTSIDE the NA market regardless if the game needs a translation patch (like Secret of Mana 2 SFC/SNES) or not. It's also OK if you have a thrashed label to make a new one if it has a big printing on it saying REPRODUCTION LABEL on it or entirely new art. Clearly there are flaws to that logic because a new or non-collector may buy it regardless, and one who just games and heard X is cool will buy that too and if it works, they're happy at the time they play it. The thing is there's a ton of old item communities out there from 100+ year old books, car parts, comics, and so on that are ok with restoration jobs done on existing product and as such they're cataloged, noted, and sold for the appropriate amount in the sliding scale of functionally wrecked to mint or new and people pay what it's worth. Don't bring that up though because that's NOT allowed offering up like for like restoration labels or parts because that ruins collector value. How is that hypocrisy fair to those in Japan, Asia on the whole, Europe and other markets who get their games raped and pillaged for 'reproduction' purposes? Isn't their stuff being made more 'open' to the masses ruining that value too potentially? I've said it elsewhere before but it's ok to shit in someone elses back yard, just not your own.

Personally I'm 100% cool with like for like copies of old games, posters and whatever else as they're fun for display or play(games.) I'm just not cool if someone passes it off as old when it's not. Like the books and car parts thing I compared to, it should be noted as such to be fair to the end consumer. I'd love to have Little Samson as it's a fun game but for $500 straight up kiss my ass on that one. If I could get someone using the infinite lives board to make me a copy of that game with a normal gray shell and a solid nearly indistinguishable copy of the original label I'd probably pay at least $30 for that honor, hell I'd probably even pay the original $50 retail price as it would be a 'new' game. If that game NEVER came out in the US and I wanted it, say it came out in PAL only like Mr Gimmick, then it wouldn't be an issue.

I hope there's no retribution for making this post, but I've laid off posting this stuff almost entirely over there as I'd rather not get banned again for using dark humor or complaining.

[JSoup]

NA guys say they're adamantly against the idea of repros because they "negatively impacts the retro gaming hobby" through sellers that would sell their repro as the real thing and never inform the buyer its a repro and not the mask rom original.

If a seller tries to pass off a repro as the real thing then the problem isn't the repro cart, its the dishonest seller. That's a totally different issue.

The other argument is that a repro of a popular game could be sold off to someone who knows nothing about games and thinking he/she has an original. At some point he/she decides to sell it and lists it as an original. At that point either prices are going forced to fluctuate to accommodate the extra copies of whatever now being dumped into the market place (which happens anyway), someone is getting ripped off (dubiously) or both.

It seems like a lot of worrying for nothing. Or, rather, a lot of propaganda for the purposes of controlling the market. I fully expect to someday see an individual or group pop up and start selling obvious repros of popular games for people who just want to play the game on a physical system or have something nice to put on a shelve.

[NESter]

I have also found that those NA people are fiercely against reproductions cartridges, especially of commercially released games. I have no such problem. I think repros are a very good thing and a giant middle finger to some of the insane prices some NES games have risen to such as Little Samson now selling for $600. Rerpo that instead.

NA guys say they're adamantly against the idea of repros because they "negatively impacts the retro gaming hobby" through sellers that would sell their repro as the real thing and never inform the buyer its a repro and not the mask rom original.

If a seller tries to pass off a repro as the real thing then the problem isn't the repro cart, its the dishonest seller. That's a totally different issue.

To me, I have no problems whatsoever with any reproduction cartridges, no matter if its a hack, fan translation, homebrew or repro of a commercially available game.

I wouldn't have any real problem with any repro seller unless they also priced their Little Samson repros at $500-600. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing at all wrong with people selling repros of Little Samson and other rarities for reasonable prices, maybe $25 a copy or something like that. If that ruin's NA's precious $600 going rate for the original copies......good.


But I do agree that people who try to pass repros as authentic originals are scumbags and should never be allowed to get away with that. Is the solution saying "no repros?" no. I also dont think the solution is slapping ugly REPRODUCTION CARTRIDGE letting on labels.

If that's true then I wonder how NA feels about one of its members, Bunnyboy, releasing reproduction carts through his website. If selling a reproduction of Donkey Kong isn't questionable, I don't know what is.

[Tanooki]

I've got that Donkey Kong cart, the one with the missing stage they put out on the Wii and other formats since starting in Europe. And then there's the Konami stuff of which I have Gradius II, also a clear and straight ripoff, but that's still a 'reproduction' since it isn't from the US. If that came out in the US it wouldn't have ever happened.

[treismac]

In my estimation collecting is driven by and large by impulse and non-rational thinking. With that being the case and the group think being what it is at NA, I don't see any point in making disparaging remarks about collecting practices that I dislike on NA. Just like I wouldn't bemoan the evils of American Exceptionalism at a military bar, I ain't pissing against the wind by pointing out how f*cking stupid VGA is on a Nintendo Age thread. I suppose that being a gamer over a collector, I am just mildly irked by the dumber aspects of video game collecting, so I just softly shake my head at Nintendo Age's sacred cows and play the weekly competitions, happily ignoring the "Collector's Corner."

[treismac]

Alive, yes. Well, debatable.

You sure did squeeze the truth of the matter out of that cliche I used, didn't you?

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing at all wrong with people selling repros of Little Samson and other rarities for reasonable prices, maybe $25 a copy or something like that. If that ruin's NA's precious $600 going rate for the original copies......good.

I'm more than cool with collectors losing their investments to the profit of actual gamers. I can't cry too much over someone paying hundreds of dollars for a video game purely as either a collectible or as a means of turning a profit then seeing the market price crash for said game. Games are meant to be played. If you lose money "investing" in a 20+ year old video game, play the stock market and leave gamers to enjoy their games.

[Tanooki]

I'm more than cool with collectors losing their investments to the profit of actual gamers. I can't cry too much over someone paying hundreds of dollars for a video game purely as either a collectible or as a means of turning a profit then seeing the market price crash for said game. Games are meant to be played. If you lose money "investing" in a 20+ year old video game, play the stock market and leave gamers to enjoy their games.

I feel that. A couple years ago I attempted twice to get a copy of the Faria mail away map from people and couldn't get it, just insults tossed and how that I was an entitled baby and so on and was told to use those awful maps that are of little to no help up on gamefaqs or nothing. I ended up after the second row of it selling my game. I lucked a bit later on into hitting ebay at the right moment seeing the game with the map and with an ebay bucks credit (not that much but still...) getting it for like $60 shipped (so the map was $20 versus over $100.) It took me a couple of days of messing around and attempting a few things but I ended up making very high resolution copies of the front and back, then I handed it over to the admin here who added it to Digital Press both in PDF and front and back JPG files. Mirrored that thing to my ISP account and popped it in my signature and I still get the occasional thanks for it and had a good many back when it dropped. Games are meant to be played and the resources that are intended for them should be readily available. Did I kill the collector pricing on that map, probably, since I've seen it fall in price, but the fact I let a lot of people get the help they needed with the game made me feel good, so be it.

[treismac]

Did I kill the collector pricing on that map, probably, since I've seen it fall in price, but the fact I let a lot of people get the help they needed with the game made me feel good, so be it.

Awesome. It's good to have people who contribute to the community rather than look out for their own petty investments, and, using this as a segueway, the progress of clone systems is a good thing in the retro gaming community. To hope for the RetroN5 to fail is really myopic and prickish. I know this is the internet, the magical digital land of anonymous hating, but it hurts no one's ability to enjoy playing their video games on their original systems if the standard of clones is raised by the success of Hyperkin's newest system. Why not hope for the best? If clones or emulation ain't your bag, cool, just don't crap on it if others are enjoying it.

[Tanooki]

I agree, well starting to at least, with clone systems. I've tested out a lot of them since a good decade back and every one of them has been a disappointing pos to me, but Hyperkin changed my opinion with the second version of that Supaboy. Yes, it's clearly not perfect, hell I even had to mod the d-pad on mine for it to react right, but aside from 1/3 of the FX games not working, no SDD1, and having to cart swap some SA1 games to get them to work, it's damn near perfect. The audio and visuals are sharp, buttons are responsive, while thick it's comfy, and it takes a real gamepad as a portable console you can wire into a TV. I like the thing and it gets it right, previous systems would foul the audio and visuals and have fairly meh compatibility issues too. With the Retron5 claiming a shoot for 100% compatibility with games released for it, and will add homebrew if an author submits it, it seems almost too good to be true (and it might.) If they pull it off I'd get it as I think having an all in one that accurate, with HDMI, a/v filters, and save states would be super welcome especially with me having a 2 year old as old games don't do batteries and it's hard at times to find an hour or two to ride an old cart out. The problem is there are collectors out there who are myopic and this thing is an offense to reality, collector value, and whatever else you want to throw at it, especially if they deliver. Clones haven't been my thing, but damn if it's all that they claim to hate on it just shows blinders, with cheap and petty behavior.

[stardust4ever]

Well said Tanooki!

Man, you really came out of your shell there. I remember you from NA. on the repros from the far east. I started collecting Famicom a few years back, and most early games whether arcade, puzzler, platformer, space shooter, beat 'em up, whatever are fairly accessible even if you can't read Japanese. Just stay away from RPGs and you'll do fine. Hell some are even in English. I was digging through some of the repro sites and noticed a couple of the Japanese originals sitting on my shelf. Why pay $40 for a Devil World repro when I just import the original for 700 yen +s/h? Super Famicom is even easier because you just cut the tabs on your SNES. With a Dremel and a security bit I did a nice clean job on it. Two super rare NES carts have crossed my path, and both I passed on for far more than I paid. Bonk's Adventure and Panic Restaurant, I miss thee, but I when I wanted them back, I simply imported both Famicom versions for less than one sixth the going NES price. Sadly Bubble Bobble 2 and Little Samson are stupid expensive in Japan as well, either that or the Japanese eBay scalpers caught on to us.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

I like collecting and gaming. I am also a gamer first tho, Idk why you would collect video games to not play them, to me its just stupid. Then it becomes a job. But yea, I have almost nothing that's super rare and valuable, mainly cuz 95% of the time I'd rather spend what limited amount of money I have on good games rather than rare and shitty games. I think the most valuable game I own is Super Smash Bros on N64, which is up to maybe $55 now. I do like buying weird or bad games, tho, for their amusement, but I collect games to play them. Every game I have, I have played at least once. Minus maybe some obscure NES sports titles. How many 8bit football games do I really need to play?

I'm all for repro carts also, why would u ever spend $600 on Little Samson or $900 on Flintstones 2?? It's just insane. But these are decent games, and an emulation doesn't really fit into my Nintendo the way a real cart does, so I'm all for it. Why would u ever need a repro cart of SMB tho? That's my only arguement against them, that they're really only needed for those games that are thru the roof expensive.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

In some ways there needs to remain that authenticity of games, if the market becomes over-saturated with repro's things could get out of control. Perhaps if repro carts weren't made to be identical to their originals?? It's like a kit-car. Yea it's cool, and it's the same experience as an original Ford Cobra, but some people like the experience of driving a car that's an antique.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

By the same token, gamers are also somewhat responsible price inflation of games. PAt the NES punk was talking about this on his podcast, and he's kinda right. Gamers will usually walk into a store and spend $50 on a Smash Bros cart, if there's a game they wanna play, they'll hit that Buy It Now.

Usually it's the hardcore collectors who are the cheap, stingy guys, who will wait patiently till they find a $10 Earthbound at a garage sale, or a $5 Smash Bros cart.

So in some ways gamers are also guilty of buying into the big retro game bubble happening now.

[bb_hood]

Did I kill the collector pricing on that map, probably, since I've seen it fall in price, but the fact I let a lot of people get the help they needed with the game made me feel good, so be it.

Did you kill collector pricing? I dont see why, collectors want originals. Collectors wont shill out any cash for a PDF file.
Its cool that you bought it to share the information though.

I'm all for repro carts also, why would u ever spend $600 on Little Samson or $900 on Flintstones 2?? It's just insane. But these are decent games, and an emulation doesn't really fit into my Nintendo the way a real cart does, so I'm all for it. Why would u ever need a repro cart of SMB tho? That's my only arguement against them, that they're really only needed for those games that are thru the roof expensive.

Repros are a waste of money when you consider they can all be played via flash carts. I dont think people should be able to sell repros, I feel they have no right to profit off games they had nothing to do with to begin with. I feel its no different than someone selling burned DVDs or CDs.
I think people should be able to play the old classics for cheap, but I dont like seeing people taking advantage and selling other people's work for profit.

[StoneAgeGamer]

I just want to say that I have been working with Hyperkin a bit with the R5. So far they seem to be taking compatibility and some other issues very seriously. I brought my major issues with the system a few weeks ago and a developer messaged me on Skype the other day saying that they believe they have fixed this issue. Since I don't know for sure if the issue is fixed I can't comment on what the issue is/was. However this issue I believed would be an issue that would have turned many customers off, so if it is indeed corrected that is very good news. Its honestly the biggest issue I had with the system.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Are you referring to the limitation that you can only have one game inserted into the system at a time? because Hyperkin said that and I speculated it might be possible for them to fix that several pages ago. You also mentioned that you found that to be a big issue that might turn off some people. Or are you talking about something else?

[treismac]

I just want to say that I have been working with Hyperkin a bit with the R5. So far they seem to be taking compatibility and some other issues very seriously. I brought my major issues with the system a few weeks ago and a developer messaged me on Skype the other day saying that they believe they have fixed this issue. Since I don't know for sure if the issue is fixed I can't comment on what the issue is/was. However this issue I believed would be an issue that would have turned many customers off, so if it is indeed corrected that is very good news. Its honestly the biggest issue I had with the system.

It's good to hear that Hyperkin is committed to making sure that the RetroN5 is a quality system.

Hey, how much of an annoyance, if at all, is the side-placed controller ports? I understand that Hyperkin has had to cram a good bit into the R5's shell, but the placement of the ports still irks me. Perhaps it won't be an issue with the NES & SNES controllers, but the Genesis DB-9 controller ports could cause problems not being front and center, just like they did with the 2600.