RetroN5: Hands on first look

[Atarileaf]

Comparing the retron 5 to playing a record player isn't an entirely accurate analogy. The retron 5 is not original hardware any more than those fake mp3 turntables are record players. Both try to mimic the real experience but are pretending. If you want a real game experience, play on actual hardware. The Ouya and Retron 5 are two sides of the exact same coin. The only real difference - the retron 5 dumps the cart the moment you plug it in, the rom on the ouya has already been dumped for you. Any argument beyond that is merely semantics.

[thegamezmaster]

Yeah, okay, a small group of the most hardcore will retain their original consoles and CRTs, but I'm talking about the masses. This will pretty much be like when mp3 players became widely affordable and CD/tapes were forever replaced and became obsolete technology. stardust4ever's claim that the RetroN5 is meant to "compliment, not replace" original hardware is like someone saying their ipod is meant to 'compliment, not replace' their vinyl records. That kind of thing might be true for a tiny fraction of people, but make no doubt about it, most people will buy a Retron5 with the exact purpose of completely replacing their old hardware.

There might even be a mini crash in the prices of the hardware the RetroN5 runs on account that nobody will want it anymore, if the RetroN5 sales are high enough. That will be interesting to see.




That's exactly what it means. The RetroN5 will not work through component, VGA, RGB, S-Video, Composite or any other video connection. It's HDMI only @ 720p. This means it will only work on HDTVs and a tiny number of CRTs that have HDMI output. This is just like the Ouya.



*devises plan of making such a video, and making the video thumbnail a girl in her panties*

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Couldn't find any info on the web. But to me it seems like their cutting off a lot of potential customers who don't have HD TV's. Any way around it? My guess is no there isn't. Too bad IMHO.

[StoneAgeGamer]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Couldn't find any info on the web. But to me it seems like their cutting off a lot of potential customers who don't have HD TV's. Any way around it? My guess is no there isn't. Too bad IMHO.

A lot of potential customers? My guess is most people who don't have at least one HDTV are probably not looking to spend $100 on a RetroN5 either. Personally I would rather them make sure the system works perfectly on HDTVs then bothering with supporting TVs from the 1990s and earlier. If you are just one of those people who refuse to play classic games on modern TVs because they look better on your CRT, well that's kind of one of the big selling points of the RetroN5. It makes classic games actually look good on modern TVs.

[Tanooki]

I think there are some of those lousy convertors to take HDMI down to something less attractive, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Stardust I remember now that cart, didn't put it together it was you with the roach shit and wreck Panic Restaurant cart as that was an epic cleaning and repair job. Personally I'm uncertain what I would have done on it, potentially given to the extent you went to repair it I'd almost say it wasn't worth mentioning. You used a 100% identical board and as noted by another each cart could be assembled (flux and all) just a little different and if you did it so pro you'd have to tell someone and that they might not be able to figure it out without a microscope and chemical analysis of the age of your flux, it's pretty pointless -- it's all original parts. Hell if you had replaced the label but unlocked the last bit of the mystery of copying NES labels right, I'd have been happy just fine with that too being like for like. As noted in this thread about being part of the car part community and them dealing with it in the 90s, it's something you just have to accept, learn to deal with, and move along. It's not the end of the world, it has a place in the sliding scale of quality versus what someone will pay.

I'm in the same boat on emulation and emulators too. I got into it in 1996 and moved deep into it ranging from an op on efnet #emu, assisting in ROM releases (I'm sure anyone here has touched some of the stuff I made those .NES headers for), working for Dave's Video Gaming Classics as a silent admin, and having a shit ton (thousands) of ROMS. It wore my ass out after a few years and as fun as it was learning about the hardware, seeing advancements, testing and improving (I helped a few authors out, last was zsnes before it went open) in the end it still felt fake. I never could really reproduce the right feeling even with a USB dongle as computers, emulators on the whole, will always get a dip in response or respond oddly different as it's not the real hardware and game makers then used screwy tricks an emulator may skip. I went from having a powerpak and not enjoying it much due to ROM overload, to removing that and just using what I have. I don't think it's religious irrational to choose real over real rom on other hardware, the response even if minute is different. There's also just the whole muscle memory factor too, the 'feel' of things as well that years or decades hammer into you. I can totally accept the Retron5 because if it does as promised, it's like those faux modern record players that run the things but screw with the audio, it uses original and input/output sources but has tweaks involved.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Couldn't find any info on the web. But to me it seems like their cutting off a lot of potential customers who don't have HD TV's. Any way around it? My guess is no there isn't. Too bad IMHO.

If you want an SDTV solution to the RetroN5, buy Retro-Bit's upcoming Super Retro Trio. It'll support Composite and S-Video, and play NES, SNES, Genesis and through the Super Retro Advance Adapter, GBA games. It too will have original controller ports, and through reverse engineered hardware, will run almost everything the Retron5 will.

It should be available in May according to my Retro-Bit contact.

Expect a full hardware review as soon as I receive my review unit.

[stardust4ever]

Not to be a bastard by jumping on the "that's inconsistent bandwagon," but yeah... Apart from clicking a video game's channel/square/whatever on the Wii home screen rather than scrolling through a list of game names on a Wiibrew emulator, how is there any difference? I actually prefer Wiibrew as it affords me more options with most emulators than is available with the official Wii emulation: multiple save states, filters, remapping buttons, etc.

My reason for supporting the Virtual Console is a simple one. It let's Nintendo know that there is a market for classic games. If nobody bought VC titles, nobody bought the classic remakes, etc, then it would tell Nintendo that revisits to old games are not viable. By installing Wiibrew on the Wii and running pirated ROMs, you are undermining the very service that Nitnendo is trying to provide. I happy to rebuy VC games that I already own and very often I do play them using the service. Are there some elements that need improvement? Yes. But circumventing the eShop and pirating the games instead of purchasing them through appropriate channels only shows Nintendo that people are not interested in playing old games. Piracy is not a victimless crime!!!

Stardust I remember now that cart, didn't put it together it was you with the roach shit and wreck Panic Restaurant cart as that was an epic cleaning and repair job. Personally I'm uncertain what I would have done on it, potentially given to the extent you went to repair it I'd almost say it wasn't worth mentioning. You used a 100% identical board and as noted by another each cart could be assembled (flux and all) just a little different and if you did it so pro you'd have to tell someone and that they might not be able to figure it out without a microscope and chemical analysis of the age of your flux, it's pretty pointless -- it's all original parts. Hell if you had replaced the label but unlocked the last bit of the mystery of copying NES labels right, I'd have been happy just fine with that too being like for like. As noted in this thread about being part of the car part community and them dealing with it in the 90s, it's something you just have to accept, learn to deal with, and move along. It's not the end of the world, it has a place in the sliding scale of quality versus what someone will pay.

The label was 100% legit. There was a bit of gum left behind by the rental sticker but other than that the roach shit and the "PVT" marks cleaned off fairly well. Truth is, I didn't want to sell it to someone at retail price, then at some point later have them read the old "Unminty Panic Restaurant" thread, and been like "ew, gross," or "it's been tampered with so it's not 100% legit," and then demand their money back. Some collectors are totally anal about the condition of their carts so I wanted full disclosure, even it meant accepting a small cut in price. It still sold for 75% of the going retail price so all-in-all I felt I did good sending it to a good home. And we all know that cart would have found it's way to the landfill had I not rescued it.

If you want an SDTV solution to the RetroN5, buy Retro-Bit's upcoming Super Retro Trio. It'll support Composite and S-Video, and play NES, SNES, Genesis and through the Super Retro Advance Adapter, GBA games. It too will have original controller ports, and through reverse engineered hardware, will run almost everything the Retron5 will.

It should be available in May according to my Retro-Bit contact.

Expect a full hardware review as soon as I receive my review unit.

I'll be looking forward to your Super Trio review. If the SOACs in this console indeed have better compatability and less artifacts than previous clones (no swapped duty cycles in NES rectangle, ability to play funky chipped games) I may consider picking this up as well since it will likely work with homebrew mappers and other stuff the Retron5 has difficulty with. If it's the same old chinese engineering that the Retron3 used, I'll probably pass.

All I can say is that I hope there will always be people who think like stardust does, so when comes time to shed my collection of hundreds and hundreds of physical games, I can at least break even if not make a small profit.

Satoshi, you don't want more people like me in the hobby, you want collectors/hoarders whose #1 mission in life is to "collect one of everything." These people will stop at nothing to make sure they own every single game, no matter how rare, obscure, even if the gameplay is a turd. I let go of games I have no interest in playing. If it's worth more to someone else than it is to me, even if the gameplay is good (Panic Restaurant, Bonk's) I'll let it go for a price. No single game cart or disc is worth more than $100 to me, flash carts excluded. If it's worth that much to someone else, I'll let go of it. The retro gaming hobby used to be for for people who wanted a cheap game system who couldn't afford nicer more current stuff. Now it's become a hoarding situation for many with deeper pocketbooks than I'll ever see.

And for the vinyl record analogy, no, you don't need a $1000+ turntable for the music to sound good, and you don't need to spend $100/ft on speaker cable either. Cheap heavy duty 14-guage wire from a hardware store for speaker hookups, and shielded RCA for the inputs is plenty good enough for most installations. Save your money on hookups and spend it on a good amp and good speakers. I've got a $200 Audio Technica turntable LP-120 with direct drive and a tonearm with adjustable tracking force, anti-skate control, and built-in preamp with optional bypass. That's plenty good enough and properly adjusted it sounds great. However I would definitely recommend staying away from those cheepo USB turntables the big box stores sell. The frequency response is typically horrid, and they have bad, scratchy needles which will slowly ruin otherwise pristine records.

As for the wine tasting bit, I've tasted some expensive and cheap wines. Rex Goliath at $5.95 a bottle tasted great, while some other "premium" wines tasted nasty IMO. Unless you've got deep pockets, you're not going to waste your money on the expensive stuff. Oftentimes fine vinyards can't sell all their product and would rather let it go to waste than lower the price (which would in turn hurt their reputation among elite wine connoisseurs). So instead of throwing it out, they sell it to other companies who repackage it under a different label. Lost Vinyards, Lucky Duck, and a few others come to mind, typically around $4 per bottle. Some of them taste fabulous, others not so much. My 2cent.

[ApolloBoy]

The retro gaming hobby used to be for for people who wanted a cheap game system who couldn't afford nicer more current stuff. Now it's become a hoarding situation for many with deeper pocketbooks than I'll ever see.

Uhh, I've been collecting for quite some time now and I don't remember a time when the hobby wasn't like that.

[stardust4ever]

Uhh, I've been collecting for quite some time now and I don't remember a time when the hobby wasn't like that.

You mean cheap hobby, or expensive hobby? Depends on what you collect.

[Tanooki]

I've been collecting since 95, and it has been a hobby to buy up cheap games to enjoy since the newer stuff is more spendy for most of that period to date. It's only in the last 3 years that it got really out of control starting with the NES and then trickling up the line through the generations. At first it was the age appropriate period of the NES and somewhat SNES with disposable income and what not. But the N64 and GC have started early and reading anywhere the comments on fears of what will go up, speculating on things and the rest what's going on there. Prices overall on Nintendo branded stuff went up under the expected levels of inflation, mostly just downright ignored up until it took off just a few years ago. Perhaps Nintendo's Virtual Console is partly to blame, or the general (then) new interest in 8/16bit art and audio that shows up all over stuff now, can't say. Whatever it is though I pity anyone who got into buying up old games in the last 3-4 years.

[Gameguy]

And for the vinyl record analogy, no, you don't need a $1000+ turntable for the music to sound good, and you don't need to spend $100/ft on speaker cable either. Cheap heavy duty 14-guage wire from a hardware store for speaker hookups, and shielded RCA for the inputs is plenty good enough for most installations. Save your money on hookups and spend it on a good amp and good speakers. I've got a $200 Audio Technica turntable LP-120 with direct drive and a tonearm with adjustable tracking force, anti-skate control, and built-in preamp with optional bypass. That's plenty good enough and properly adjusted it sounds great. However I would definitely recommend staying away from those cheepo USB turntables the big box stores sell. The frequency response is typically horrid, and they have bad, scratchy needles which will slowly ruin otherwise pristine records.

I was mostly refering to those cheap USB type of turntables, as plenty of people are buying those. But also older units from the 70's or 80's made of plastic and worth around $30 used today, your player is actually pretty good. Main reason why I'm taking notice now is because I know someone who's into audio so I try to keep an eye out for vintage equipment for him, he often restores pieces if they're good quality. He seems to notice a difference in quality between them even slight differences, so I pay attention to what he says. Everything from amps, speakers, receivers, turntables, reel-to-reel, cassette decks, tube equipment, etc.

As for the wine tasting bit, I've tasted some expensive and cheap wines. Rex Goliath at $5.95 a bottle tasted great, while some other "premium" wines tasted nasty IMO. Unless you've got deep pockets, you're not going to waste your money on the expensive stuff. Oftentimes fine vinyards can't sell all their product and would rather let it go to waste than lower the price (which would in turn hurt their reputation among elite wine connoisseurs). So instead of throwing it out, they sell it to other companies who repackage it under a different label. Lost Vinyards, Lucky Duck, and a few others come to mind, typically around $4 per bottle. Some of them taste fabulous, others not so much. My 2cent.

If you go to any place serving only expensive options just start calling it all "grape drink". See how people react.

[thegamezmaster]

A lot of potential customers? My guess is most people who don't have at least one HDTV are probably not looking to spend $100 on a RetroN5 either. Personally I would rather them make sure the system works perfectly on HDTVs then bothering with supporting TVs from the 1990s and earlier. If you are just one of those people who refuse to play classic games on modern TVs because they look better on your CRT, well that's kind of one of the big selling points of the RetroN5. It makes classic games actually look good on modern TVs.

It's not a matter of refusing to play on a modern TV, but due to other circumstances I can't afford one or I would have one. And I would like a RetroN5 if it had more than HDMI output. Not complaining just the way it is I guess.

[stardust4ever]

@Tanooki: Weird how anything Nintendo is instantly collectable yet there seems to be zero interest in Nintendo's latest and greatest, the Wii-U. Well "greatest" is debatable but I've gotten pleanty of enjoyment out of it.

[Tanooki]

It's greater than the Wii ever will be from a non-casual game players standpoint already but yeah it makes little sense other than the cooperative effort of the gaming media and developers to discredit it along with NOA's brainless non-advertising strategy that is working well for them.

[stardust4ever]

Nintendo advertised the crap out of Wii and it sold out for over a year. Wii-U is released, Nintendo never advertised at all, and it lands a distant 3rd. Coincidence? I think not.

Overall I'm worried. I don't want the Wii-U to become the next dreamcast...

[Tanooki]

Ehh it can't. It could be the next N64 though. It will eek out like 4 years of core Nintendo fan relevancy and then the last year of its life a gem or two aside will be total widely spread out shit and misery. And then also like N64 the margin of sales will look more like PS1 to n64 than the PS2 to the GC/XB in comparison, plus like N64 end up with only a select few big name developers doing projects and other random crap but mostly just first and second party things to keep people interested who have one around. I don't like writing it, but well that's their fault and third parties throwing them under the bus with the (systems first then games bullshit which is unheard of in system releases.)

This is off topic you know, again. Make another thread maybe?

[stardust4ever]

BUMP. Just heard through the grapevine, Retron5 got delayed, AGAIN! Why am I not surprized...

[Zap!]

BUMP. Just heard through the grapevine, Retron5 got delayed, AGAIN! Why am I not surprized...

Barely delayed. Yesterday, they guaranteed it will be released in one month or less, so instead of April, we get May 13th, at the latest. I hope.

[Cryog]

MGC 2014 - Hyperkin presentation and Retron x86 Announcement

[Cryog]

MGC 2014 - Hyperkin Interview

[Tupin]

They can barely get the RetroN5 out, how is this Retron x86 thing going to happen as cool as it sounds?