RetroN5: Hands on first look

[Tanooki]

I can't say for certain if it lags, but it almost sounds familiar as I remember something with big objects messing with the game before which is no surprise as it's an earlier release and stuff like that happened. It seems you're really digging the fix so that's good.

I've been feeling the same hitting up GBA stuff of course that stumbled some with the damned SRAM issue and EEPROM not working at all until the other day. Now that is up I can start playing DOOM, DOOM2, GTA and some others on there which is awesome. I have been when the mood suits throwing random 8 and 16bit Nintendo games (famicom too) at it and it's just a nice fun tool to experience games with. It's a shame so many people were dicks about it over at NA because it's 'not a real console' and that it is a bastard that shouldn't exist since it's an emulator using carts. So fed up with the uptight control freak rabid collector crap and it's a nice bit of fresh air not dealing with it anymore.

[omegadevil]

I passed it along a moment ago.

Presents!
http://retron5.in/?src=1c383cd30b7c298ab50293adfecb7b18

Preview build of v1.5 of the game firmware, should be finalized during the week most likely.

Tanooki thanks for passing it along and for the preview build. The retron just keeps getting better and better. If only we could add cheats to the cheats database.

[Tanooki]

It could happen, he seems pretty open minded to lots of things once they get down to more free time with ironing out more priority stuff. I had brought up user entry of mappers for nes/famicom stuff and so on and he said he was wanting to do that so maybe that will come eventually just like maybe manual cheat entry. It's hard to say really but I do pass ideas along.

[nusilver]

I can't say for certain if it lags, but it almost sounds familiar as I remember something with big objects messing with the game before which is no surprise as it's an earlier release and stuff like that happened. It seems you're really digging the fix so that's good.

I've been feeling the same hitting up GBA stuff of course that stumbled some with the damned SRAM issue and EEPROM not working at all until the other day. Now that is up I can start playing DOOM, DOOM2, GTA and some others on there which is awesome. I have been when the mood suits throwing random 8 and 16bit Nintendo games (famicom too) at it and it's just a nice fun tool to experience games with. It's a shame so many people were dicks about it over at NA because it's 'not a real console' and that it is a bastard that shouldn't exist since it's an emulator using carts. So fed up with the uptight control freak rabid collector crap and it's a nice bit of fresh air not dealing with it anymore.

i hear you. i've never had any bad experiences there but i have witnessed some of it. it's definitely close-minded to dismiss clones in general. i haven't found a clone i loved before this, though, so i think that may be part of the perception problem. that and the launch reviews based on sloppy firmware.

[Tanooki]

You and I are on almost the same page. I've messed with clones on display going back to the 90s and they were all universally crap for the NES and the SNES with many games just not running and more with the wrong color palette or sounds that were missing or just plain off(ranging from a little to horrible.)

The first exception to the rule for the most part to my surprised was also Hyperkin, their revised v2 of the Supaboy. It's not perfect, and I had to mod my own systems d-pad with a 2 cent fix to make it work like a real SNES pad, but the list of games that won't run on it at all amounts to Stunt Race FX(Starfox2) which resets in 5min(a 1/3 of the FX games bomb using this board like a timer, Yoshi's Island bombs, SF Alpha 2 tanks, and not much else. All the NES funk I've thrown at it including CV3 run great. The SA1 games with their copy protection of sorts don't boot natively but like 10% of the time, but if you pop another game in, press and hold reset, slide in the SA1 game and release reset they do. It helped me build some trust to pop for the Retron 5 and I don't regret it one bit.

All the reviews were quick to review launch/pre-launch systems and just tore into it with the .20 system firmware and 1.0 game firmware which were atrociously buggy and lacking which made it seem worse than the shittiest Yobo system. Had they had 1.4 out and .22 at launch for a hard release this month instead of the soft launch trickle, the reviews online with be very much favorable with just certain specific titles, dislike of the controller which is personal taste and same with the cheat system too, and unreasonable whining about pirate flash carts and bootleg(repros) which only the most piratey and super collector types would are about let alone be aware of. Even the amazon reviews by the time of v1.31 of the firmware perked up into the 4 star range on average. Sadly amazon still hasn't erased all the bogus early reviews from people spewing hate, lies, and garbage about something they couldn't have even touched let along bought which wer emore than 1/2 the reviews up until 2 weeks ago.

[DonSilvestre]

Tanooki, thanks for all the inside info! I just picked up my Retron 5 last night at a local game store. I am LOVING the NES and GameBoy modes. Can't believe I'm playing NES on my HDTV in this quality. Unfortunately I'm noticing some decent input lag ONLY for SNES using a classic SNES controller. I don't notice any lag at with NES and GameBoy, and even weirder, I don't notice the same SNES lag when I use the included wireless controller.

Am I insane? I swear I'm not imagining it, especially since NES feels so flawless. Can you bring this up with your contact and see if there's a solution incoming at all? I'm wondering if it's due to more horsepower being requires to emulate SNES, and therefore there's an increase in the time it needs to process a classic controller or something.

You guys can feel free to tell me I'm insane and imagining it too, but I'm not! :-)

[ibain]

I've also been playing a lot of GBA games after getting the Retron 5. I can't believe how good they look and sound, after playing them on the SP/DS all these years.

It's also too bad Hyperkin didn't release with 1.4. Most of the negatives have been fixed by now.

[Tanooki]

I've brought up input lag before more than once. It has been looked at, and it's not the system, at least not at a basic level. It is possible you could hit an emulation hiccup if the hardware and the OS decide to randomly do something dumb (like Windows always does all the time.) The controller if anything that comes with it should have more lag if any than a legit one directly into the port because you're dealing with bluetooth. I haven't had any input lag issues, but I also shopped the TV I got earlier this year around a bit for the lowest input lag possible on a consumer TV outside of paying over 2x the price on a smaller Sony model with some special chips inside (22" for $600 at 18ms vs my 29" for $250 with 25ms lag.)

The system itself has strong hardware considering what they're running with the emulator. You got a dual core Rockchip at CortexA9 ARM 1.6ghz chip and with that a 250mhz mali-400 gpu and 2GB of speedy DDR3 ram as well according to the tech. The system to even give more overhead was capped at 720p but the basic setup of the processor is made to do 1080p for tablets and other android devices. According to the tech they're not near tapping out the machine even running the most gnarly stuff like the FX2, SA1, or the SVP chip that Virtua Racing on Genesis uses.

This is the chipset from the maker: http://www.rock-chips.com/a/en/produ.../0808/312.html

Something to consider, you're thinking the SNES is the hefty one here, but it's not alone. You got the Genesis which while less complex in the audio and visuals is on the main cpu clocked notably faster. Also there's the GBA which I guess depending on how they did it could be less or more taxing than any as it's a 16mhz ARM7 chip in there, a much more basic ARM chip than the R5 uses.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it could be your TV causing it or a preception problem. Did you turn off any form of processing, filtering, or other garbage on your tv and pop it into game mode? None of these games other than the GB stuff were made for a LCD screen so they do not account for input lag so they're overly sensitive.

[Az]

This is a weird thing I noticed and although it isn't really a problem, I could see it possibly being an issue on a unusual setup like a HDMI to component converter or maybe a splitter.

If you don't have your TV turned on and turned to the right input the console doesn't attempt to load any carts. That's how it is on the two sets I've hooked mine to, anyway. If you turn the console on before the TV, or turn it on while the TV is displaying a different input onscreen, it just sits with all five system lights lit and doesn't load any carts you put it.

[DonSilvestre]

I've brought up input lag before more than once. It has been looked at, and it's not the system, at least not at a basic level. It is possible you could hit an emulation hiccup if the hardware and the OS decide to randomly do something dumb (like Windows always does all the time.) The controller if anything that comes with it should have more lag if any than a legit one directly into the port because you're dealing with bluetooth.

Something to consider, you're thinking the SNES is the hefty one here, but it's not alone. You got the Genesis which while less complex in the audio and visuals is on the main cpu clocked notably faster. Also there's the GBA which I guess depending on how they did it could be less or more taxing than any as it's a 16mhz ARM7 chip in there, a much more basic ARM chip than the R5 uses.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it could be your TV causing it or a preception problem. Did you turn off any form of processing, filtering, or other garbage on your tv and pop it into game mode? None of these games other than the GB stuff were made for a LCD screen so they do not account for input lag so they're overly sensitive.

Yeah, I have my TV in game mode with absolutely EVERYTHING turned off. I've been lamenting the horrors of input lag since I bought my first HDTV 8 years ago, so I was careful in the one I chose this time around as well. It's a Panasonic ST30 series TV with roughly 31 ms input lag (has a "great" rating on display lag dot com). I haven't messed with Genesis or GBA yet (in truth I've only tried Mario games on NES and Mario World on SNES is what I'm feeling the lag on). I don't understand why I'd feel like Mario 3 was flawless and Mario World was lagging unless like you said, it's an emulation hiccup, but I'm feeling it consistently on every level. It's not unplayable or anything, just not perfect. I SWEAR the wireless controller (and I know that should introduce more lag) responds better. Not sure how I can prove it, I just can tell it feels better and more precise. I'll try some other games and see if it persists. Maybe I'm insane, or maybe Mario World just isn't as responsive as I remember it being, though I've had no issues playing the Wii U Virtual Console version, which is supposed to be notoriously laggy. Oh well.

[Tanooki]

AZ so this isn't straight HDMI but a splitter dumbing the signal down and it fails to fire up as you said is that right? I just pasted your report in a message to the tech. I'm not sure what all they'll do about it, but it's interesting.

Don very weird. Around v1.2 or 1.31 I had a problem with Yoshi's Island, was testing it when it was reportedly fixed (died in world 2 on the yoshi copter) and the lava loaded castle in world 1 running down the long hall it dropped frames and skipped up on up a bit here and there. Not really sure what was up, tech didn't either, but I have not noticed it since so that's why I said it could be some random garbage android is causing or they fixed it in 1.4.

[DonSilvestre]

Played some Donkey Kong Country last night and couldn't really perceive any lag, same with Megaman X (though that game crashes on 1.4, I think I've seen you reference it being fixed in the 1.5 test). Tried Mario 3 on Super Mario All-stars and that felt perfect to me as well (thought that would be a great way to prove my point if it felt wonky on SNES but great on NES). So maybe it's just something with the way Super Mario World is being emulated in 1.4. I don't know!

As a whole, however, I'm loving this system and don't regret the purchase. As more and more of these updates roll out, I'm excited to watch it get better and better.

You mentioned it has the overhead to do 1080p - will Hyperkin ever give us the option of going 1080p, even if the emulation suffers a small bit? I'm wondering if outputting straight to 1080p (my TV's native resolution) might shave another ms or two off the input lag.

[Tanooki]

I'm glad you're enjoying it like I am. Yes MMX is fixed in that 1.5 preview build, grab it and you're set, it probably is the final build anyway unless they slide something last minute in there I'd think.

The rockchip is capable of it, but while it is, I have no idea that much about the total setup they used if it is capable over the board to do it or not, but I could see it as something to add later if it's possible given it wouldn't impact performance on any resource hungry games.

You know what would make for an interesting test, the SMW+SMAS combo cart. I've got that one. I'm not sure but I follow what you're saying about native tv resolution, but since the 1080p tv's natively do 720p as well I doubt you're suffering for it. THe pain comes from non-normal HD resolutions where it needs to be resampled up to something the modern TV can handle. The R5 being what it is just sends a pure signal straight over HDMI so I'm not sure you'd get anything.

Last night I put down 3 stages of Metal Slug Advance, man I suck and always will at it, and I was fine even using the wireless controller on that one.

[DonSilvestre]

I'm glad you're enjoying it like I am. Yes MMX is fixed in that 1.5 preview build, grab it and you're set, it probably is the final build anyway unless they slide something last minute in there I'd think.

The rockchip is capable of it, but while it is, I have no idea that much about the total setup they used if it is capable over the board to do it or not, but I could see it as something to add later if it's possible given it wouldn't impact performance on any resource hungry games.

You know what would make for an interesting test, the SMW+SMAS combo cart. I've got that one. I'm not sure but I follow what you're saying about native tv resolution, but since the 1080p tv's natively do 720p as well I doubt you're suffering for it. THe pain comes from non-normal HD resolutions where it needs to be resampled up to something the modern TV can handle. The R5 being what it is just sends a pure signal straight over HDMI so I'm not sure you'd get anything.

Yeah, I thought the combo SMW+SMAS cart would be a great test as well - so I pulled out my copy. Unfortunately it isn't recognized and doesn't boot up at all on the R5 at the present *sad trombone*

Might be a problem cart you should let your tech friend know about! Thanks for all your insight on this, if I run into other bugs or issues, I'll let you know/be sure to ask about them. It's great having a contact on the "inside" (that's what she said).

[nusilver]

Just wanted to pop in real quick as I've had a chance to actually *play* a few GBA games on the Retron 5 now, and things aren't universally rosy here as they are with every other platform I've tried on it.

Wario Land 4 and Minish Cap are both fine, which is great. What isn't great is Metroid: Zero Mission, which is one of *the* must-own games for the system; it slowed down pretty badly once the fight again Deorem (the giant centipede) started. Just to make sure, I tried fighting the same boss on an actual GBA and there was no slowdown at all. I wonder if the system software can be updated eventually with a new GBA emulator that can actually handle larger sprites and extra particles? I guess I'll write to Téch.

[Tanooki]

Interesting about SMW+SMAS, I'll try mine as soon as I can. I'll pass it along with the rest to the tech.

[tomm1313]

All the reviews were quick to review launch/pre-launch systems and just tore into it with the .20 system firmware and 1.0 game firmware which were atrociously buggy and lacking which made it seem worse than the shittiest Yobo system. Had they had 1.4 out and .22 at launch for a hard release this month instead of the soft launch trickle, the reviews online with be very much favorable with just certain specific titles, dislike of the controller which is personal taste and same with the cheat system too, and unreasonable whining about pirate flash carts and bootleg(repros) which only the most piratey and super collector types would are about let alone be aware of. Even the amazon reviews by the time of v1.31 of the firmware perked up into the 4 star range on average. Sadly amazon still hasn't erased all the bogus early reviews from people spewing hate, lies, and garbage about something they couldn't have even touched let along bought which wer emore than 1/2 the reviews up until 2 weeks ago.

you do gotta keep in mind. You are a big part of it being where it is. if they would have waited till now we could have still ended up with something like it was 2 months ago. you putting dedication in to work with them and make this system good helps out all of us.

i do hope they find a way to have people rereview it.



now if only we can get a retrode like plugin for n64 or 32x

[Tanooki]

I think I'm putting in more effort than I should, but since I paid for it I want it right. I've already got one hating troll on the hyperkin page accusing me of being on their payroll since they're straight lying about the thing and I argued with them.

[DonSilvestre]

Tanooki, if they happen to be looking for more testers "in the wild" or more people to give them feedback, I'd be happy to contribute as well. I'm happy to keep funneling feedback through you as well, but I'm really excited about the potential of this product (HDMI retro system with original controllers is something I've wanted for yeeeaaaaaars), it's single handedly getting me back into collecting carts (after a massive sell off of most of my 200+ cart collection about a year ago). So anyway, yeah. If they want more people testing this stuff and giving feedback, I'm happy to participate. If not, I'm also not even remotely offended.

[Az]

AZ so this isn't straight HDMI but a splitter dumbing the signal down and it fails to fire up as you said is that right? I just pasted your report in a message to the tech. I'm not sure what all they'll do about it, but it's interesting.

No mine is straight HDMI from the console to the TV. I meant that I could possibly see it being an issue if someone has an unusual setup and their console powered up but wouldn't load a game, it's not a problem or issue with me but just an oddity I noticed. It will sit with all 5 system lights still lit and say "loading" until you put the TV on the right channel, then it goes through the system carousel lights and says "loading cart".

I've tried it on 2 different brands of TVs and 2 different brands of HDMI cords and it acted the same way. I do have my console set to always go to the menu and not auto-boot if a cart is inserted if that makes any difference.