RetroN5: Hands on first look

[clobber]

Clobber you're amusing I'll give you that. All you seem to be able to do is insult me like a child, and then go on about stuff. To be straight with you, I know the situation all too well, but I was requested to no longer discuss it as a personal request. I know in general what was done and wasn't and at this rate until something is done about the entire matter I feel obliged not to answer if you're right or wrong in this case and to what degree.

Either way troll away have fun with it. If your barbs or the rest actually were at all worth getting angry over I'd be responding in an entirely different way. Have your fun, this will come to a conclusion eventually. I will say at least at this point, I agree with you on Satoshi being a hypocrite just as much as Jsoup there pointing out his habit to try and dominate and mold all conversations/reviews around him to his liking regardless of the reality of the situation or not.

Pikkon that is definitely a concern of mine too and has been for awhile. I don't see them at the least as kitsune said replacing code, but the rest I see no reason why not to either considering the terms of GPL.

Yeah, nice way to back pedal. I smack you in the face with truth and evidence and suddenly you "know the situation all too well" whereas before you were talking absolute shit - nice try. You shitposting and being wrong makes ME the troll in your eyes. That's hilarious.

> I was requested to no longer discuss it as a personal request

Oh yeah? A buddy or shill connected to Hyperkin perchance?

> I know in general what was done and wasn't

You know jack shit except for what I tell you.

> that is definitely a concern of mine too

"Oh noes! They're gonna take muh entertainment away!" You're goddamned right. Your concern is someone is going to take away support for the offending emulators. You couldn't care less what Hyperkin has done is illegal and respecting copyright of the authors code means nothing to a slobbering fanboy like you.

> I don't see them at the least as kitsune said replacing code

Luckily laws (and apparently facts and logic) aren't up to you, manchild.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

So does Satoshi_Matrix apparently.
I guess it doesn't matter unless it's his work.

Your reading too much into that. It does bother me....but I don't really care. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me nor the viewer. There have other instances like Brent Black (brentalfloss) stealing a photo I took of my GameBoy collection when I was doing my top 100 GB editorial for his Super Mario Land lyrics video without permission. I contacted him about it, and he was a total dick about it. That's what made me angry, not so much the theft itself. but later I realized it's not something that's even worth getting upset about at all. Who cares.

I would prefer it if I was contacted and asked but it ultimately doesn't matter. This is how I feel about RetroArch and Retron5 and Ouya and Xbox and Wii all sorts of emulators on other devices. They all tend to be based on the same code by the same authors.

RetroArch is complaining about something that happens all the time and is no way exclusive to Hyperkin. The only difference is that The Retron5 is sold on its emulators where other devices are sold on other features with emulators being secondary.

If this is true, then Hyperkin should add RetroArch to to the credits of the Retron5 accessed via the Konami Code. Maybe they already did. Either way, it's not an issue worth any real attention at all.

[clobber]

Your reading too much into that. It does bother me....but I don't really care. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me nor the viewer. There have other instances like Brent Black (brentalfloss) stealing a photo I took of my GameBoy collection when I was doing my top 100 GB editorial for his Super Mario Land lyrics video without permission. I contacted him about it, and he was a total dick about it. That's what made me angry, not so much the theft itself. but later I realized it's not something that's even worth getting upset about at all. Who cares.

I would prefer it if I was contacted and asked but it ultimately doesn't matter. This is how I feel about RetroArch and Retron5 and Ouya and Xbox and Wii all sorts of emulators on other devices. They all tend to be based on the same code by the same authors.

RetroArch is complaining about something that happens all the time and is no way exclusive to Hyperkin. The only difference is that The Retron5 is sold on its emulators where other devices are sold on other features with emulators being secondary.

If this is true, then Hyperkin should add RetroArch to to the credits of the Retron5 accessed via the Konami Code. Maybe they already did. Either way, it's not an issue worth any real attention at all.

> not something that's even worth getting upset about at all. Who cares.

Ah I get it, you're defeatist so everyone else has to be too.

> They all tend to be based on the same code by the same authors.

Um, the ports and forks that adhere to the licenses and release source code are actually doing it right, unlike Retron5.

> RetroArch is complaining about something that happens all the time and is no way exclusive to Hyperkin

Oh, well that clears it up then. Violating the licenses and code theft is a-okay. Got it. Gonna need citations on the "all the time" assertion since you claim to be so informed.

> Hyperkin should add RetroArch to to the credits

Uh, no. That isn't at all the issue here, despite what you keep spouting off as facts. You're woefully (and possibly willfully) ignorant. If you want actual informed discussion on what needs to happen, you can read some facts right here: http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...l=1#post775987

> it's not an issue worth any real attention at all.

Oh look, you're trying to craft the conversation around you again!

[JSoup]

> I was requested to no longer discuss it as a personal request

Oh yeah? A buddy or shill connected to Hyperkin perchance?

I'd wager a guess at it being someone fairly unconnected to either of those things, rather just a general forum user. We're a small forum these days, but we're prone to the odd bitchfit or two in random topics. Some users have taken it upon themselves to try and head off these fits before they happen.

[Tanooki]

I don't even know why I'm responding to you anymore libretro, clubber. I'm not backpedaling I'm honoring a request. I made friends with that head retron tech back in June and we talk most days of the week casually online in messaging. He reads this and 3 other forums, just won't register to stave off problems and problem people. He saw your posts, saw what I wrote, and asked me to please not defend, argue, or try and refute or agree to your accusations that he and the company would be handling it shortly and I agreed. If that's a backpedal by your definition, fine. To me, I'm honoring a friends request, that's it.

That's my 'connection' to the company. I wish I was getting paid by them, any extra helps. So no, I do know jack shit as I had it detailed to me well enough to understand what is really going on again, and this was at the same time when I was requested to stop arguing about it on here with you. I know what hyperkin may or may not have done in consideration to all their emulator plugins in enough detail and I'm sure I was told what I was told so I wouldn't play 20 questions digging more.

They can't 'take' my entertainment away. I already own one, it works. So that logic on your part is a huge fail. Even if by some chance they were shut down, it is plugin based, and is has zero security, so it's not hard to imagine someone else making their own improvements in time much like how Neo Geo X was tweaked by hackers to give it more than the company would allow at Tommo. Like Satoshi said, and I did before, I don't really care about your beef with it as I have no hand in it. And as he said as well, retroarch being ripped off and complaining is nothing new, not like it hasn't happened a lot of times before and it's not exclusive to hyperkin. I'm not going to go as far as saying it's a non-issue like he did, but that it just is what it is and steps I'm sure are being taken.

[APE992]

Taking code someone else wrote and packaging it as a product for profit? Yeah that says many hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of paying a programmer to work for you. The Retron5 is a joke of a product any anyone saying "who cares" is a dumbfuck. You wouldn't like it if it was your work being ripped off.

[clobber]

I don't even know why I'm responding to you anymore libretro, clubber. I'm not backpedaling I'm honoring a request. I made friends with that head retron tech back in June and we talk most days of the week casually online in messaging. He reads this and 3 other forums, just won't register to stave off problems and problem people. He saw your posts, saw what I wrote, and asked me to please not defend, argue, or try and refute or agree to your accusations that he and the company would be handling it shortly and I agreed. If that's a backpedal by your definition, fine. To me, I'm honoring a friends request, that's it.

That's my 'connection' to the company. I wish I was getting paid by them, any extra helps. So no, I do know jack shit as I had it detailed to me well enough to understand what is really going on again, and this was at the same time when I was requested to stop arguing about it on here with you. I know what hyperkin may or may not have done in consideration to all their emulator plugins in enough detail and I'm sure I was told what I was told so I wouldn't play 20 questions digging more.

They can't 'take' my entertainment away. I already own one, it works. So that logic on your part is a huge fail. Even if by some chance they were shut down, it is plugin based, and is has zero security, so it's not hard to imagine someone else making their own improvements in time much like how Neo Geo X was tweaked by hackers to give it more than the company would allow at Tommo. Like Satoshi said, and I did before, I don't really care about your beef with it as I have no hand in it. And as he said as well, retroarch being ripped off and complaining is nothing new, not like it hasn't happened a lot of times before and it's not exclusive to hyperkin. I'm not going to go as far as saying it's a non-issue like he did, but that it just is what it is and steps I'm sure are being taken.

> I made friends with that head retron tech back in June and we talk most days of the week casually online in messaging.

Wowwwww total vindication. Thank you for outing yourself as a complete and utter shill, paid or otherwise. That would explain your arrogant and inflammatory statements regarding Hyperkin's code theft which no doubt mirrors their own attitudes.

> head retron tech

You mean Product Developer, Chris Gallizzi?

• http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-gallizzi/82/327/677
• https://twitter.com/cgallizzi
• http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...kin_my_name_is

His reddit AMA is especially offensive while answering the question if they would use flash carts or not.

Q: Are there any plans to add support for flash-carts in the future?

A: nope
A: yeah, it's to protect our company

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...ame_is/ci0suet

Ironic as not allowing flash carts is to "protect" the company while code theft and violating licenses of open source emulators (some GPL, some NON-COMMERCIAL) is okay! Somebody definitely didn't do their homework, did they Chris? A total lack of technical professionalism. Or the moral and ethical compass is broken.

> I do know jack shit as I had it detailed to me well enough to understand what is really going on again

No son, here's what's REALLY fucking going on:

• http://www.libretro.com/index.php/re...se-violations/
• http://imgur.com/a/hrqSf (new evidence)
• http://i.imgur.com/Ms3IuYH.png (new evidence)
• http://imgur.com/a/T6W4e (original images released in the Nintendo Life article)
• http://www.nintendolife.com/news/201...ulator_authors

Can you dig it, moron?

> I know what hyperkin may or may not have done in consideration to all their emulator plugins in enough detail

That means you're aware of the code theft and license violations. They literally shipped a product using code licensed as NON-COMMERCIAL. Emulators they cannot legally use such as Snes9x and GenesisPlus-GX. They STOLE code from GPL'd emulators (VBA, FCEUmm, etc) and also the RetroArch product, violating licenses by not releasing source code and acknowledgements.

> They can't 'take' my entertainment away.

Hate to break it to you but as a matter of fact they can. Hyperkin can no longer use NON-COMMERCIAL emulators in their product. Those will have to go. Sorry bro.

> it is plugin based, and is has zero security

Boy you can say that again. Talk about amateur security: https://twitter.com/FioraAeterna/sta...92945435500544

> I don't really care about your beef with it as I have no hand in it.

Kindly STFU and stop shilling. Your relationship with whoever at Hyperkin is a conflict of interest here which invalidates anything you say. No wonder Chris told you to shut your mouth as you make them look even worse.

> it just is what it is and steps I'm sure are being taken.

Dismissive attitude on the situation, which again, likely mirrors your buddy's at Hyperkin. The "steps" to be taken will be 100% compliance with the licenses of the code in use, meaning open sourcing of lifted emulator code and removal of the non-commercial ones. Glad to hear he reads these forums and others, so he knows what a careless, piece of shit thing they did.

[Leo_A]

Whatever merit your post might've had is destroyed by the way you've chosen to present yourself...

That said, I've said all along since it was confirmed, that the lack of re-programmable multicart support is a consequence of how the Retron 5 hardware works rather than a deliberate decision to not support these devices (Or even going as far as to actively block them from working). It doesn't communicate continuously with the cartridge, rather, it dumps the contents and then runs the resulting file.

That's why these don't work. It's not because Hyperkin didn't code in support for them since due to fear of legal repercussions, that they were scared to replicate the original hardware so closely that these 3rd party accessories still would work as they do on original hardware (Hardware where all patents long ago expired, leaving something like the SuperNes internal hardware as public property), etc.

This legality claim which is extremely dubious at best is just an easy public explanation/excuse to give for why these expensive accessories that many dedicated fans have invested in purchasing in recent years aren't compatible with the Retron 5, yet work in the other current clone on the marketplace.

At least SD rom loading has a slight bit of believably (Although AtGames including it in some Sega products, Legacy Engineering including it in the stillborn Flashback Portable, and other examples cast plenty of doubt over the validity of their "concerns" if IP holders could sue such manufacturers for including the feature), but they should've just been upfront with the multicart issue.

[clobber]

Whatever merit your post might've had is destroyed by the way you've chosen to present yourself...

That said, I've said all along since it was confirmed, that the lack of flash cart support is a consequence of how the Retron 5 hardware works rather than a deliberate decision to not support these devices (Or even going as far as to actively block them from working). It doesn't communicate continuously with the cartridge, rather, it dumps the contents and then runs the resulting file.

That's why these don't work, it's not because Hyperkin didn't code in support for them since due to fear of legal repercussions, they were scared to replicate the original hardware so closely that these 3rd party accessories still would work as they do on original hardware (Hardware where all patents long ago expired, leaving something like the SuperNes internal hardware as public property).

This legality claim which is extremely dubious at best is just an easy public explanation to give for why these expensive accessories aren't compatible with the Retron 5 yet work in the other current clone on the marketplace.

At least SD rom loading has a slight bit of believability (Although AtGames including it in some Sega products, Legacy Engineering including it in the stillborn Flashback Portable, and other examples cast plenty of doubt over the validity of their "concerns"), but they should've just been upfront with the multicart issue.

> Whatever merit your post might've had is destroyed by the way you've chosen to present yourself...

Nope, not true at all. I can address admitted shills any way I see fit given his previous comments and that doesn't at all take away the facts and evidence presented. Just hurt feelings. If you have a problem with anything I said, that means you weren't going to objectively read in the first place

[Leo_A]

And that doesn't make any sense.

[Gameguy]

They can't 'take' my entertainment away. I already own one, it works.

I thought you had to send yours back for a replacement because it crapped out on you?

[Satoshi_Matrix]

How is 2.0 V6 for you guys?

I haven't noticed any real changes to the NES/Famicom/Genesis cores, but the SNES core is a bit better and the GB core is greatly expanded.

I've noticed that when navigating the menus returning from playing a Super GameBoy or GameBoy Color game, the dpad is sluggish to respond for a few seconds upon exiting the game back to the main menu. This doesn't seem to happen with other cores, or original GB games that don't have SGB support.

Can someone confirm this happens with their Retron5 too?

[RoryDropkick]

How is 2.0 V6 for you guys?

I haven't noticed any real changes to the NES/Famicom/Genesis cores, but the SNES core is a bit better and the GB core is greatly expanded.

I've noticed that when navigating the menus returning from playing a Super GameBoy or GameBoy Color game, the dpad is sluggish to respond for a few seconds upon exiting the game back to the main menu. This doesn't seem to happen with other cores, or original GB games that don't have SGB support.

Can someone confirm this happens with their Retron5 too?

It seems to be working fine for me. There hasn't been any slow response to the menu. One issue I have found is that cheats for Genesis games decided to not work.

[Tanooki]

Clobber...riiight. If having a friend makes me a shill in your eyes, that's fine as your opinion really doesn't matter to me. I don't feel I'll base who I associate with on who might offend you. And no it's not Gallizi, he's in the states and an American, the head tech is a new zelander working out of their hong kong office. It's an interesting 12 hour time difference so to talk one or the other of us has to be on very late or very early in the morning so I catch him at work, or at home after the fact while I'm at work. I think you perhaps have invested in a Jump To Conclusions Mat?

Again, I do actually know what's going on, spam any link you want, it's not really going to surprise me at this rate. Again with the name calling, what are you five? You're catching on pretty quick without me saying a word what I'm aware of, shocking, you're catching up.

And yes they can't take my entertainment away. Do you need some reading comprehension classes? I bought the system, it's in my possession. Are you planning to send the GPL shutzstaffel to my home and commandeer my system? They could shut them down tomorrow, it won't make the existing systems stop working magically, so no, they can't take what I own, that's what I meant by it.

Of course I can say it again, there is zero security. I wouldn't even call it amateur as they didn't bother to add any. There's trying, and not bothering, and the R5 leans towards not bothering.

I'm dismissive of the situation because the damage is already done and nothing can be done about it until Hyperkin does what I know they're planning to do for as much as I was told anyway. To be straight with you, not that you'll buy it anyway, the tech is on your side and wants that GPL thing taken care of. He's quite aware of the situation obviously with management and what was, is and will be going on with it. I have no idea what they will be doing about snes/genesis end of things, but the rest under GPL I'm sure you can put two and two together on that one quite easily.


Leo you're correct. The system doesn't read the carts, it just dumps them so you can't use a flash device and it's really that simple. Just to be clear though, flash cart and multicart aren't the same, some multicarts do work, if they can find an emulation header/crc data to pick it up. I dug and found the data on the Supervision 115in1 I own, and that one does work.

Gameguy It's replaced, UPS decided to be douchy and hold it, I'll have it Monday. My general understanding is that the current systems being shipped versus the early stuff at launch has far better quality control checks being done so problematic systems don't get out there.

[Tanooki]

And in lighter news I got 2 new and 5 small used lego sets in the mail in the last two days. They're very relaxing and they don't talk back and have attitude around them either. Imagine that.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I've also noticed problems with The Legend of Zelda Oracle of Seasons and Ages on the Retron5. I cannot dump the cartridge saves to the Retron5.

Oracle of Seasons fails to dump the save about a quarter way through the process. I put the game into a real GBC and the saves work just fine.
Oracle of Ages says it successfully imported the save, but in actually it didn't do anything and the saves are not there.

I'd like to confirm that I'm not the only one with this problem. GBC batteries are getting on in years so I'm not sure if perhaps its a faulty battery issue. But then again, my Shantae cart dumped the battery saves just fine to the Retron5 so I think it's gotta be something specific to the two Capcom Zelda games.

[Az]

One issue I have found is that cheats for Genesis games decided to not work.

I get an infinite loop where if you start the game with cheats it boots back to the menu and redumps the cart. The only way I've managed to get them to work is after going through this loop a couple times, turn them all off, then turn them on mid-game after it's already started.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Hmm I haven't tried that yet.

How do the cheats even work on the Retron5? I would guess they just GameGenie codes with headers in .txt files renamed to some other file extension. If so, then that means they're editable. I notice that currently a lot of games have misleading cheats, duplicate cheats, cheats that don't work, or in the case of a lot of the more unusual games, no cheats at all.

Is there a community already set up about Retron5 cheats? I want to fix some of the existing problems.

[Tanooki]

I think they're something like that. I remember being mentioned they were from a mix of sources but a great many word for word letter for letter were dumped off some huge master site. The file you upload to the system has them all logged and whatever so they pop up in a huge list per game on that cheat screen and you just click them on/off as needed. You can pull the cheat list right off their website and download the zip if you want your answers on how editable they are.

[nusilver]

I've also noticed problems with The Legend of Zelda Oracle of Seasons and Ages on the Retron5. I cannot dump the cartridge saves to the Retron5.

Oracle of Seasons fails to dump the save about a quarter way through the process. I put the game into a real GBC and the saves work just fine.
Oracle of Ages says it successfully imported the save, but in actually it didn't do anything and the saves are not there.

I'd like to confirm that I'm not the only one with this problem. GBC batteries are getting on in years so I'm not sure if perhaps its a faulty battery issue. But then again, my Shantae cart dumped the battery saves just fine to the Retron5 so I think it's gotta be something specific to the two Capcom Zelda games.

Confirmed that Seasons fails to dump the save at about 20%.

I'd also just like to say, in response to all the arguing that had happened over the past few pages, I, too, don't give a shit. Not only have I actually started finishing games in my collection I've never been able to get through before, like Gimmick!, but I'm now able to get 100% enjoyment out of the actual CARTS I've purchased that I could never understand before because of IPS/UPS patching. I'm also actively expanding my collecting into Japanese RPGs now BECAUSE I can IPS patch real carts, which is WAY more satisfying than patching ROMs.

The Retron 5 did not ship in great condition, but it has gotten better and better every time I read this forum. It's incredible, and I can't wait for it to continue getting better, particularly with the timing on Mother 3 and others.

Think I'll buy Bahamut Lagoon next. I used to have it about 15 years ago, but the language barrier was a blocker. No more!