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Thread: RetroN5: Hands on first look

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    Key (Level 9) Satoshi_Matrix's Avatar
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    Tanooki, can you send me the pre-release 2.0 final? email me please. satoshimatrix hotmail yadda yadda yadda.
    check out my classic gaming review site: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/

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    Great Puma (Level 12) JSoup's Avatar
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    The patch loading thing seems pretty twitchy, from what I'm seeing. Watching a guy try to get translation patches work with his Japanese SNES games. All of them load and then do nothing, aside from maybe crash the system.




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    I've never heard of it being really twitchy, a bit picky yes, the patch has to match the internal name of the game in the slot to the letter and spacing exactly or it won't behave, crap out or ignore it.

    Satoshi -- it's public, no need for email: http://retron5.in/?src=17e62166fc8586dfa4d1bc0e1742c08b

    I found the link a couple pages back in this thread and bookmarked it for when I have a system again if they don't re-enable it by that time. I don't use the cheats so to have all the Nintendo systems fast load wrecked by the loner sega slot sucks.

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    The first part of my retron5 coverage is now up, with a look at the controller as part of The Controller Chronicles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEAmz9i61UA

    I'd be interested to hear feedback from other Retron5 owners.
    check out my classic gaming review site: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/

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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    The controller is bluetooth, and it is the reason why it's not out in the PAL regions because the CE board doesn't have the schematics to it to clear the device because hyperkin's supplier is being jerky about it. The +/- buttons, I guess it's taste, doesn't bother me and I hadn't even thought of it. L/R are a bit stiff but if you're used to a NES pad it's not terrible and not as bad as a lot of cheapo pads. I do agree the back design is screwy with that old mold not cut out. To me you're spot on with the rest. The click stick is great, but you really do have to get used to it in some styles of game in case your character wanders off or whatever, but anything really meant for a joystick it shines. I think the battery lasts longer than 6hrs, I don't recall ever charging it all that much before I mostly went to using an ascii pad snes controller I found locally.

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) RoryDropkick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    Oh hey the GPL trolls going after Hyperkin will be relieved to know the put the GPL notice up on their update page with a direct link to the notes and a zipped up file with all the sources in it for them to use/change to their liking. Not sure what the plan is with snes9x/genesis plus since supposedly they can't be used at all.

    I just see it dusting over anyway, it's not like a lawyer would likely take up the cause of people promoting piracy on multiple formats through emulators.

    All's well that ends well I say. Now people can stop getting so huffy

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSoup View Post
    The patch loading thing seems pretty twitchy, from what I'm seeing. Watching a guy try to get translation patches work with his Japanese SNES games. All of them load and then do nothing, aside from maybe crash the system.
    Have him try these:

    https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b5k...s_for_Retron_5

    They're patches i've fixed (or created on a select few) myself for the Retron 5 specifically. Make sure bare minimum he's on 2.0 Beta 3 or higher. Also no, the file names of the patches do not need to match with the cartridge name at all, you could call them whatever you want and i've fixed, created, or applied many patches that have proven that. Also just have him keep the header option off on Super Famicom/SNES games when using those patches, I strip the header of the match SNES rom before I make any patch to keep it simple. Headers are an old fossil left over from the earlier days of cartridge dumping and really not necessary anymore and all games are dumped onto the Retron 5 without the header anyway.

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) Cryog's Avatar
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    Hyperkin admitted that the code used for the RetroN5 emulators are from RetroArch !!!

    http://retron5.in/node/9

    RetroN 5 Software Licensing
    RetroN 5 uses source code from the following open source projects:
    VBA-M (both primary SVN and VBA-Next fork)
    Genesis Plus GX
    FCEU (FCEU-Next fork)
    SNES9x (SNES9x-Next fork)
    The following archive contains the source code tree for each of the aforementioned projects, verbatim as is used by RetroN5.


    The source code for each of these projects is copyright the respective authors, who are identified in the corresponding source files. We endeavour to abide by the terms and conditions of each of the corresponding open source licenses. Should you be one of the developers or a direct legal representative of one of the copyright holders of any of the aforementioned projects and feel that the software is being used in violation of its license then please get in touch with us via email to discuss the matter further.
    http://www.retrogaming.com.ar/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    I just see it dusting over anyway, it's not like a lawyer would likely take up the cause of people promoting piracy on multiple formats through emulators.
    I find it rather baffling that you'd call the RetroArch developer (and by extension any who develops for PC emulators, regardless of it it's the emulation core or a frontend) "people promoting piracy". Especially
    1) In the context of what is essentially a contention between an emulator developer and a company alleged to have stolen their code for a device that runs emulators.
    2) When there are now ways of interfacing cartridges on PCs, meaning said emulators can be used in much the same way as the Retron5 can, except without features intentionally restricted.

    Also, the IPS patch workaround for loading ROMs is so basic and obvious it's actually pretty ridiculous. I would've THOUGHT Hyperkin would've had a DRM mechanism to detect such a thing, but that was before the allegations of stolen code occurred. As such, I can't buy any argument that puts Hyperkin on some "anti-piracy" ethical pedestal, and I think anyone who'd defend them as if they are such are not thinking rationally. Using this method, you can still pirate on your Retron5. What can't you do, still, though? Load ROMs you've legitimately dumped into the hardware, or move your legitimately-dumped ROM backups into any permanent storage.

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    wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.



    Now, back on topic, has anyone gotten any cheat files for Sega Genesis/MegaDrive games to work? Even on the latest firmware, none of any games I've tried seems to work with the cheat files. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.
    This thread is for discussing the Retron5, not just for Retron5 technical support. Discussing the theft that the Retron5 took part in is related to the Retron5 so it can be discussed here. At least it's something less boring to talk about than just never-ending firmware updates.

    Maybe you'd want to start your own thread on the console, Satoshi_Matrix's Retron5 Shill Thread. No negative comments or free discussion allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.
    Hi there, I'm leading the libretro/RetroArch project. You may also know my work from that SNES9x emulator fork you're using right now on your precious Retron5. You know, the one that is still licensed under a non-commercial license, is shipped with your device and still has yet to be removed from your device so as to comply with the license (it's called 'noncommercial' for a reason, you know).

    BTW - their half-hearted and incomplete sourcecode release did not give up the sourcecode to their frontend. We found offending RetroArch code in their frontend -

    http://imgur.com/a/i56YF

    http://www.libretro.com/index.php/re...se-violations/ (see the 'RetroArch' section)

    Since those snippets of sourcecode were GPLv3-licensed, therefore, GPLv3 takes precedence and therefore their ENTIRE FRONTEND needs to be licensed under the GPLv3, and sourcecode needs to be provided on a public place. BTW to Tanooki's 'special friends' in case they're reading along - that means ENTIRE FRONTEND SOURCECODE - no flimsy 'wrapper API header' and calling it a day this time.

    Oh BTW - since it's using GPLv3 code - there's still this pesky issue that the way the Retron5 is currently being sold as a TIVOized box is entirely illegal. Complete de-TIVOization is needed here to make it not a GPLv3 violation. There was a reason why the creators of the GPLv2 went to the trouble of making an updated version - a version 3.0 - to address the issue of TIVOization abuse that was a problem with GPL version 2.

    Refer to that here for more information -

    http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#Tivoization

    Some devices utilize free software that can be upgraded, but are designed so that users are not allowed to modify that software. There are lots of different ways to do this; for example, sometimes the hardware checksums the software that is installed, and shuts down if it doesn't match an expected signature. The manufacturers comply with GPLv2 by giving you the source code, but you still don't have the freedom to modify the software you're using. We call this practice tivoization.

    When people distribute User Products that include software under GPLv3, section 6 requires that they provide you with information necessary to modify that software. User Products is a term specially defined in the license; examples of User Products include portable music players, digital video recorders, and home security systems.
    Oh BTW, in light of that, what Mr. Chris Gallizi wrote here is yet even more evidence that they aren't following the spirit (AND the letter in this case) of GPLv3 - something they should have thought of before they went ahead and copied our Sinc resampler code and our audio utils code wholecloth -

    http://www.gamnesia.com/articles/gam...5#.VCKBh-IvBhE

    Assuming someone does break into it, how are you going to deal with that?
    We do provide firmware updates through SD card support. If we start noticing people hacking and things like thatówhich I'm not against whatsoever; that's the times we live in now, where if you could hack something, you're a geniusówe can release firmwares at any moment that would be required to start playing games. With that, you know, we can limit the control on that. - See more at: http://www.gamnesia.com/articles/gam...5#.VCKBh-IvBhE
    No, you can't do that. Because that would constitute TIVOization. But thanks for letting us all know your prior intent anyway with this product and how you planned on violating the GPLv3-licensed software on your product that is not yours, Mr. Gallizi. I'm sure the FSF will appreciate that very much.
    Last edited by Squarepusher; 09-24-2014 at 03:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.
    Again, you don't decide what is or is not worth discussing. As has been pointed out to you before, this is a Retron5 subject in a Retron5 thread, people are on about it so it's not going away any time soon. Deal with it.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    wow, can we please let this non-issue die on the vine already? Unless you're directly involved in retroarch, you have no reason to care. As I said a few pages back, this isn't even worth discussing.
    It should matter to anyone who's buying this, specially to anyone who cares so much about authenticity. It's not just about licenses.

    First thing, Retron 5 is using stolen emulators such as SNES9X-next, which is far from an accurate emulator. It's made with intuitive speed hacks to run on systems tight on specs at the sacrifice of accuracy, and as such, lacks timing precision between chips as well as some other graphical effects in certain games, among other things; it's not like the real thing at all and it wasn't supposed to be. If I'm going to pay this much for a system and play my own cartridges, I'd want an authentic experience - specially since the Retron 5 costs more than the actual consoles, much more than a good RGB cable for the SNES and a GBS-8200, and the fraction of a premium upscaler like the XRGB-mini. Hyperkin should have mentioned this from the beginning.

    Second. It's using Retroarch's "upscaling code", but doesn't support any of it's shaders that correct scaling issues (such as "pixellate"). I'm talking about this, right here:
    https://archive.moe/vr/thread/1908706/#1910393

    Not to tell the whole thing runs on Android, which isn't exactly perfect for emulation. You put all of this in perspective and you have one large issue.
    Last edited by zero_limit; 09-24-2014 at 09:01 AM.

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    I bought one, so did Satoshi, neither of us care about that. All this chest pounding is only that to the end consumer. Most people don't know what a GPL license is nor gives a care, hell most don't even click on the shit on their Windows OS or Playstation where they agree to a crap load of terms just to open it up.

    Satoshi may come off as trying to control the thread, and yeah he's a control freak, but he is right. This thread was meant to discuss the system and since it has been out has been all about shared experiences, helping with issues, and technical (upgrade) releases. Maybe a new thread is needed for that since this one has been derailed legal saber rattling and that hardly is about shilling, it's just about those who own one and want to discuss such things is all and there's not a damn thing wrong with that at all. So much for that Genesis question he had right?

    I can see increasingly so Gallizi is slimy, that's a given, and since it's out there now I did know a few days earlier the GPL drop for what it was was coming, and I also knew that mgmt has no intent on ever putting it out there but once they got caught, they finally listened to the tech who wanted it out there initially and what did get put out there was done. Good luck getting them to release the source to their frontend, I just doubt that'll happen without some big legal shoving considering it isn't totally lifted public emulator code and they developed the thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    I bought one, so did Satoshi, neither of us care about that. All this chest pounding is only that to the end consumer. Most people don't know what a GPL license is nor gives a care, hell most don't even click on the shit on their Windows OS or Playstation where they agree to a crap load of terms just to open it up.

    Satoshi may come off as trying to control the thread, and yeah he's a control freak, but he is right. This thread was meant to discuss the system and since it has been out has been all about shared experiences, helping with issues, and technical (upgrade) releases. Maybe a new thread is needed for that since this one has been derailed legal saber rattling and that hardly is about shilling, it's just about those who own one and want to discuss such things is all and there's not a damn thing wrong with that at all. So much for that Genesis question he had right?

    I can see increasingly so Gallizi is slimy, that's a given, and since it's out there now I did know a few days earlier the GPL drop for what it was was coming, and I also knew that mgmt has no intent on ever putting it out there but once they got caught, they finally listened to the tech who wanted it out there initially and what did get put out there was done. Good luck getting them to release the source to their frontend, I just doubt that'll happen without some big legal shoving considering it isn't totally lifted public emulator code and they developed the thing.


    You should care. If the emulators authors want to, they could get a lawyer send a cease and desist order, and force them to remove SNES9x and other emulators from the system. Then you will be stuck with a brick that will never get updated, because it would take thousands of man-hours to create a new emulator from scatch.

    The whole point of the Retron 5 was so that you could play legit carts on a system with modern conveniences. But in doing so, they broke the law. They are basically in the same grey area as people using ROM images they downloaded off the Internet. Emulator authors are very cautious about commerical usage of their emulators, because they don't want Nintendo et al breathing down their neck.
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    Well I don't. I don't work for them, what they do has no baring on my life or what I still do enjoy with games. If they vanished, I have the unit, and I still have my original systems as I wasn't dumb enough to sell those (boxed them up.) I figure it's 50/50 it goes away or not, but in time it'll blow over with a lot of complaining just like the NeoGeoX/Tommo scandal did. People get loud and hot, things roll on for awhile, and then people get bored and move onto the next thing to get a cause going over it.

    The cores on the thing short of bandaids for an obscure game here or there are done so for me the damage is done and it serves its purpose. It would be more of a burn on anyone who still wants one if it got shut down. The emulators themselves are plugins, I'm sure if an agreement can't be met they'll just find something else to shove in there or shut it down, whatever makes more sense cash wise. I know why emulator authors are touchy, you said it there, but that cat is now officially out of the bag thanks to hyperkin so the damage is done.

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    ServBot (Level 11) GarrettCRW's Avatar
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    Tanooki wants us to ignore the issue because he's tight with Hyperkin, and unlike SegaAges, he doesn't have the integrity to call them on their bullshit.

    Messiah essentially got shamed out of existence when it was discovered that the NEX used the same standard NOAC architecture for their system. Now, there's no reason to do the same with Hyperkin, but they do deserve to pay a price for ripping off developers who have provided software for non-commercial purposes, to say nothing of their decision to not disclose any of this (or of the Android usage) until pressured. Ethics matter, and there's been a HUGE breach here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badinsults View Post
    Emulator authors are very cautious about commerical usage of their emulators, because they don't want Nintendo et al breathing down their neck.
    Except that they developed their emulators to play illegally dumped ROMs. Let's NEVER forget that point when we're in here adopting this high and mighty tone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    Well I don't. I don't work for them, what they do has no baring on my life or what I still do enjoy with games. If they vanished, I have the unit, and I still have my original systems as I wasn't dumb enough to sell those (boxed them up.) I figure it's 50/50 it goes away or not, but in time it'll blow over with a lot of complaining just like the NeoGeoX/Tommo scandal did. People get loud and hot, things roll on for awhile, and then people get bored and move onto the next thing to get a cause going over it.

    The cores on the thing short of bandaids for an obscure game here or there are done so for me the damage is done and it serves its purpose. It would be more of a burn on anyone who still wants one if it got shut down. The emulators themselves are plugins, I'm sure if an agreement can't be met they'll just find something else to shove in there or shut it down, whatever makes more sense cash wise. I know why emulator authors are touchy, you said it there, but that cat is now officially out of the bag thanks to hyperkin so the damage is done.
    TL;DR: "I got what I want, so fuck everyone else."
    Last edited by GarrettCRW; 09-24-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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