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Thread: Looking for upscaling solution for retro on LCD TVs

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) sparf's Avatar
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    Default Looking for upscaling solution for retro on LCD TVs

    Okay guys, been a while since I posted.

    This is kind of painful. I've been having a bad set of arguments in my household over my 36" Trinitron. "It's ugly. It's too big."

    It's banged up from just getting it into the house, but it's a gorgeous TV for retro-gaming. I love it. I want to keep it. Unfortunately the time may be coming where I can't because I can't take the kind of hostility it's going to generate.

    I have a smaller Trinitron CRT that I keep because it can still handle light-gun games, whereas the 36" is a flat screen and I have never been able to find a way to make them work, so I'm not losing that capability.

    I guess what I'm looking for is information on whether there's a good upscaling solution that would let me play my old consoles on a nice, thin, unobtrusive flat-panel television without excessive ghosting, game-breaking lag, or looking like warmed over ass.

    I have not modded any of my consoles, and while I'm not averse to digging in with a soldering iron, that would mean modifying NES, SNES, Genesis/SegaCD/32X, Turbografx, SMS, and every other console I can think of because I own almost everything but the NeoGeo systems. I really need advice here. I've been told that if there isn't a truly satisfactory option that I can really live with, then I won't have to get rid of the Trinitron. These guys aren't dumb though, and I wouldn't be able to effectively lie. They're also fond of retro games and have some skill, so they'd be able to play it themselves and force my hand.

    So rather than have to carry this fight on in the absence of good information, I'm asking here, is there a good solution?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Cherry (Level 1) Flojomojo's Avatar
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    I have a Panasonic plasma TV that doesn't have any of those nasty things you don't like. It's great for retro, as is the OUYA, which connects via HDMI and decently emulates just about everything we like to talk about here.

    Lightguns? My suggestion is to let them go (sorry), or play them on a smaller CRT.

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    Possible to replace the 36" monster with a 27" CRT? Unfortunately, short of emulation, proper viewing on an LCD TV is going to cost a LOT of money and involved a LOT of "ugly" wires!

    http://www.videogameperfection.com/

    This is a great website with a ton of details about RGB gaming. What I personally use is a DVDO iScan VP50 upscaler. I have 21pin EURO SCART cables for many systems. Some like Genesis or SNES produce RGB fine no mod, while some like N64 or TG-16 required modification. The XRGB series are excellent but they are very expensive.

    http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

    That site reviews like every upscaler there is.
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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    Well since you have a small, get rid of the big one as it's pointless.

    You need to hit up displaylag.com and then filter for 2013 and 2014 model TVs and skip over the monitors meant for computers. The best you can get is a 17ms Sony that costs very expensive due to an added processor that lowers the lag to 17ms.

    If you can get a TV under 30ms you're fine. I found one for 250, a 29" LED Vizio that's on the list there with a 25ms lag. Standard on pre-HD stuff short of a Gitaroo Man or Gradius like shooter situation it's fine and won't trip you up. It has a Game Mode, this one removes the problem entirely and they're solid in that mode. I love the TV and it suits me well on all the old NES/SNES, GC/PS2 stuff I run through it.

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    Pear (Level 6) ApolloBoy's Avatar
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    One word: Framemeister.
    Quote Originally Posted by starsoldier1 View Post
    GUY WAS SUPPOSE TO PLAYABLE IN THE GAME
    My collection

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    Quote Originally Posted by ApolloBoy View Post
    One word: Framemeister.

    If you want to do it right this is the only way. CRT tv' swill only be around for so long so you need to start thinking about other routes.

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) sparf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApolloBoy View Post
    One word: Framemeister.
    I keep getting told about these things. To be honest, one area of retro gaming that has confused me is video signal and such. I come from a PC Repair/Computer Science background, but audio/video setup has never been very clear in my head.

    I don't know enough about the Frame Meister to know what I would need to do to my consoles to make them function, if anything, or what cables would be necessary. I'm literally clueless. It's very embarrassing. I've been doing great stuff with console repair but replacing and fixing components isn't the same as understanding the video output systems on these things.

    I have read great things about this little box and would gladly drop the cash on it if I knew more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparf View Post
    I keep getting told about these things. To be honest, one area of retro gaming that has confused me is video signal and such. I come from a PC Repair/Computer Science background, but audio/video setup has never been very clear in my head.

    I don't know enough about the Frame Meister to know what I would need to do to my consoles to make them function, if anything, or what cables would be necessary. I'm literally clueless. It's very embarrassing. I've been doing great stuff with console repair but replacing and fixing components isn't the same as understanding the video output systems on these things.

    I have read great things about this little box and would gladly drop the cash on it if I knew more.
    A good place to start is the review of the unit over on Retrogaming Hazard and see what the unit can do. Lot's of information on what each type of system looks like and how it preforms with video signals.

    http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html

    Of course pictures aren't justice enough, luckily a guy on YouTube by the name by darcagn has uploaded a few direct HD captures from the device you can view on your HDTV to see if it's worth the money.

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...hqpc2tv7XDVjT5

    Also search "xrgb capture" on YouTube to see more results.

    Another great place for information is the junkerhq wiki page with settings and lots of info.

    http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/X...i_FRAMEMEISTER

    Of course an upscaler wouldn't be complete without cables. In the United States we got the short end of the stick when it comes to RGB compatible TV's so to achieve that RGB signal, you have to purchase European cables known as SCART cables along with one adapter to allow use with the XRGB's Mini RGB port and another to use the D-Terminal on the back for Component Video or YUV. Some of the best cables I've ever used have always come from Retro Gaming Cables, lots of shielding and quality, some even better than first party solutions.

    http://www.retrogamingcables.com/

    Finally, a little research is needed to see what systems can output what. Most classic game systems can output RGB natively, and only a handful need to be modified to output RGB. Some systems can only output S-Video or Composite at best but thankfully those are systems like the Atari 2600 which look fine using S-Video. A good place to start for that information is Retro RGB which covers most of the popular systems and their capabilities along with SCART switches and more:

    http://retrorgb.com/systems.html

    I know it can be a lot to take in but once you see the difference those three colours can make, and learn the terms you will never go back to that old yellow composite cable that looks blurry and horrible on modern televisions.
    Last edited by alec006; 07-01-2014 at 11:11 PM.
    "...leave love bleeding, in my hands, in my hands again..."

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