What Were Your First Feelings/Impressions of Super Mario 64?

[Tanooki]

=I don't completely disagree, as I never took the time to find the red or Yoshi coins, but couldn't this logic be applied to the earlier Mario Bros. games? If you took your time to explore each nook and cranny you were shamed by getting a low score (which is at it's most basic, a rating/ranking system).

Eh, I see your logic, but with those it was really about points and only about the points plus the finish. The low score could easily be dodged with point racking in various places by stocking up on lives in others. In #1 the shell on the stairs among others, and in SMB3 that early goomba chute in like 1-2 you can fill well over 99. Either you could skip a lot of the game and then just rack the shit out of the high score in spots just to cover your tracks.

[bb_hood]

I will say the yoshi coins made the game less fun for me, it basically would shame you not doing it with that being thrown in your face much like the numbers SNES Yoshi's Island started with, it's punishment for not being slow and overly thorough instead of just enjoying the stages and getting to the finish. They added those coins to all the SMB/W titles plopped on the GBA too, it was just a rank system thing that I found offensive as I hate rank systems as they suck the enjoyment out of the game to a point.

With Yoshi's Island for the snes, I guess you COULD look at the scoring system as punishment, but I dont see why. If you want to just run through the levels you can do that. Collecting all the stars/red coins/flowers does add an extra element of depth to the game, as well as adding extra challenge. Its more replay value if you want to score 100% in each level. They could just leave stuff like this out of the game, but I dont think that would make it better.

[frogofdeath]

Eh, I see your logic, but with those it was really about points and only about the points plus the finish. The low score could easily be dodged with point racking in various places by stocking up on lives in others. In #1 the shell on the stairs among others, and in SMB3 that early goomba chute in like 1-2 you can fill well over 99. Either you could skip a lot of the game and then just rack the shit out of the high score in spots just to cover your tracks.

Yeah. Especially since time doesn't give you that much of a score in Mario Bros. I think bb_hood's response is more solid than my initial fuzzy Mario logic so I shall piggyback off that: the coins/collectibles can add replay to those who want it, but don't hurt the game by being included.

[Tanooki]

I agree with both of you. I just pointed out Yoshi as where it kind of started. Mario 64 was when it really tipped over into collection or not finish the game mechanics. Some of them do restrict the quality of the ending or even something like the color of the main screen(doesn't bother me) by not doing it all. Technically even SMW as I recall did a change up with the full finish changing some enemies to another style. When it's something that doesn't affect the ending you receive, or it doesn't bar you from enjoying the stages of the game I find that totally cool. It is when you're forced to do it to see more of the game, when they lock down entire stages or worlds(new smb ds), or if it taunts you with a poor rating that's when I take issue with it and sadly that's all where the Mario games have gone.

Mario games now you must buy access to later stages with stars, some force you to have coins just to save (total bs on the handheld ones), and the whole stars over your save as a rank system is like a trifecta of annoyance to me. If when you're as you put it 'hurt for not doing it' versus just being something optional that's when things turn sour.

[Jorpho]

Technically even SMW as I recall did a change up with the full finish changing some enemies to another style.

That only happened when you finished the Special World.

When it's something that doesn't affect the ending you receive, or it doesn't bar you from enjoying the stages of the game I find that totally cool.

But the ending you receive doesn't bar you from enjoying the stages of the game, so why does it matter? I get the feeling that you take these things too personally.

It is when you're forced to do it to see more of the game, when they lock down entire stages or worlds(new smb ds)

The only stages that are "locked down" in NSMB DS just require you to finish a few boss battles while tiny. There's no fancy collecting required. In fact, collecting Star Coins only lets you buy wallpapers, and eventually puts another star next to your save file.

Mario games now you must buy access to later stages with stars, some force you to have coins just to save (total bs on the handheld ones)

There are no recent Mario games that have ever required you to have coins just to save, and certainly not on handhelds. The closest thing in that regard is SMW. (Donkey Kong Land required you to go through some trouble to save, but that was ages ago.)

[Berserker]

I was well back into PC gaming at that point, so I wasn't really blown away from a technology standpoint. I remember being skeptical about how well a platformer would translate into 3D. I was aware of the flaws, but overall I thought it was a really enjoyable space to mess around in, and ended up playing the shit out of it. It didn't come close to topping SMW for me, but it was still a lot of fun.

[Leo_A]

In fact, collecting Star Coins only lets you buy wallpapers, and eventually puts another star next to your save file.

They also open up paths by removing gates on the map screen, prompting you the option to save your game at the same time you open a gate. Otherwise, you're limited to only being able to save when the game prompts you to after castles, fortresses, and such.

Which isn't a huge problem I might add. Simply hop back to world 1 and in perhaps 90 seconds, you can clear an easy level and save your game freely.

[Tanooki]

New SMB DS required using those coins from the stages to save at the mid and end castle to each world or you'd be out your game. The only time that block was remove was after finishing the game, then you could save anytime you liked. You had to earn 5 coins to save.

My beef with the ending is, I sure do enjoy the stages, but I feel if I put the time in to finish the game I'm entitled to the real ending, not a stripped one. Extras should be extra for those who want to do more over just finishing the game as a bonus.

[kupomogli]

This is extremely confusing. Are you saying SMW is a better game because you're allowed to skip the whole thing and reach the end credits without playing 90% of it?

3D Land will not allow you to progress unless you collect a certain number of Star Coins. It is no worse than the Mario Galaxy games in that regard.

On Super Mario World, the only stages that had secret exits were the red colored ones and some of the ghost houses. All the yellow colored ones and the castles had a single exit. The red colored ones on Star Road gave you an extra percentage, but completing them had Mario walk back towards the star he's already been able to go to. Only one unlocked the bonus stages on star road. 74 unique stages, 24 of them with an extra exit.

Super Mario 64 has only 15 stages and the only reason there's any length to the game is because you're required to go through the stages again and again to get to the end. The stages themselves are also small, so going through them again you're usually just retracing your steps for the most part.

With Super Mario 3D Land, you don't have to go out of your way to collect most of the star coins and each one you collect require you restart the stage. As long as you pick up all the star coins you pass up while playing through the game, you should be able to atleast complete the regular game which consists of 48 unique stages. The extra world has 47 stages, although about a fourth of them are the same stages with ghost Mario. You're required to get enough star coins to play each world.

[Leo_A]

New SMB DS required using those coins from the stages to save at the mid and end castle to each world or you'd be out your game. The only time that block was remove was after finishing the game, then you could save anytime you liked. You had to earn 5 coins to save..

It was 5 coins?

I guess I could be wrong, the most I've done since playing through it has been revisiting a few levels on my completed save. It likely was 2006 or 2007 when I last spent a coin on my save file. It's probably the weakest of the 2D Mario platformers in my opinion where as many of them, I'm running through them every year or two. So I've had no desire to really revisit it.

But I'm 99% certain that no coins had to be spent at the castles to save, you only had to reach the end of the level. Besides buying backgrounds, the coins were spent to open up paths and doing so would give an opportunity to save your game without playing through a castle.

[Niku-Sama]

I hated it so I went to PlayStation that tone around. PSX had mega man any way

[Tanooki]

It has been a long while for me too, I was fairly certain you always had to pay to save, but yes if it wasnt at a castle the other purchases were for mushroom house access and each time you paid 5 to open up a signpost you got the right to save. I also agree the game wasnt much fun, also very short, especially if you cut out two whole worlds not micro mario dodging the bosses on those 2 stages. I think being that it was the first 2D mario since SMW1 it got a lot of hot press and a free pass on its problems. I even overlooked them for a time, but ended up disliking more than liking it in the end. New SMB on the whole has been one long trail of disappointment with wonky physics and generic stage design that almost felt like a bland cookie cutter platformer with mario stitched onto it, and only the WiiU launch title was like the stand out where they ditched most the bs and tried to mimic very well SMW.

[Jorpho]

They also open up paths by removing gates on the map screen, prompting you the option to save your game at the same time you open a gate. Otherwise, you're limited to only being able to save when the game prompts you to after castles, fortresses, and such.

Acht, it's clearly been too long. I could have sworn there was some kind of quick-save, at least.

My beef with the ending is, I sure do enjoy the stages, but I feel if I put the time in to finish the game I'm entitled to the real ending, not a stripped one. Extras should be extra for those who want to do more over just finishing the game as a bonus.

Why bother watching the ending at all if it bothers you so much?

Super Mario 64 has only 15 stages and the only reason there's any length to the game is because you're required to go through the stages again and again to get to the end. The stages themselves are also small, so going through them again you're usually just retracing your steps for the most part.

Eh, I don't remember them seeming so small at the time. Plus the challenges are often (but not always) interesting and varied. But I guess that's just my opinion.

As long as you pick up all the star coins you pass up while playing through the game, you should be able to atleast complete the regular game which consists of 48 unique stages. The extra world has 47 stages, although about a fourth of them are the same stages with ghost Mario. You're required to get enough star coins to play each world.

Maybe a fourth of them are the same stages with ghost Mario, but probably another half of them are just the same stages with relatively minor alterations.

[Leo_A]

I've argued over Super Mario 64 with kupomogli in the past and don't agree. But I at least understand some of his criticism although I think most any 3D platformer is as guilty or more so of many of his points.

But one area I don't is the worlds being tiny. Super Mario 64 gave me the complete opposite impression there.

I could have sworn there was some kind of quick-save, at least.

For some odd reason, they reserve that for after you see the ending (I think all five entries hide the quick save option until then).

At least it's there eventually. Not as useful as it could be, but it still comes in handy as you hunt down the last few secret exits and star coins after reaching the end.

[AceAerosmith]

I really didn't like the game. I've never played it for more than a few minutes because I hated the look and the 3D environments. It wasn't a major disappointment or anything really though, because I didn't know anything about it prior to seeing it when it released.

I really didn't like most early 3D games. I thought that they were blocky and ugly looking, and I still don't like 3D platformers, or 3D fighters much at all. Games that offer a too much freedom and are too open ended tend to bore me. They seem less structured, and I don't feel like there's a sense of urgency or pacing like the type of games I grew up playing. There are lots of exceptions to this, but generally I felt that Mario64 killed a genre that I used to really love. I was for the best though, as video games have to evolve.

This. Just running around collecting shit with no real plot advancement (Hey, I went from 11% complete to 13% complete. Yay.) is super fucking boring to me.

[kupomogli]

Stealing these images from a post in VGChartz forum. The first world of Super Mario 64 created with Lego. There was no source so only these smaller images.